Dr. Paul Chappell and Lancaster Baptist Church introduce a new resource website called Ministry127 (based upon Philippians 1:27).
Yes, Roger. I understand that. I was just telling him that there are schools that do try to honor the pastor that is just out there serving faithfully….like you!
[Aaron Blumer]Aaron, I don’t think that most pastors of really “Big churches” actually do the work themselves. What they are is great administrators—not necessarily great preachers, soulwinners, etc. The person who gets the PhD did the work HIMSELF.
As for the work involved… I’ve done enough degree work to easily imagine the labors involved in a solid PhD program. But let’s remember: it’s not like building a congregation of that size and school of that size and cranking out all these books etc. is easy. There’s a reason not everybody does it. So given what we know a “DD” is, it is also ‘earned’ just in a different way. I don’t think building and leading a large ministry is one bit easier than earning a PhD for most people (for many, earning a PhD is much easier than building and leading a large ministry!).
The DD degree (to me) as has lost (almost) all credibility. There are too many given out each year and seem very much like “Christian politics” at work. When I hear the qualifications read, it is almost “he has built a large church and a large Christian school”, etc.
I had a problem when a certain institution which shall remain unnamed granted a friend of my husband’s (a person who had started his PhD degree when my husband did but then dropped out) a DD..while the guy was in his 40’s. He had done nothing substantial. a 40something is simply too young to have done a “lifetime’s amount of work”. In fact, the average PhD candidate will be close to 30, if not 30 when he finishes, so he would only have 10 or so years on the person who actually did the work and wrote a “paper” of quality. Plus a person in his 40’s and 50’s still has plenty of time to mess up morally “big time” and make a huge mess. If the DD is supposed to represent a “lifetime of work”, then let it be that…a lifetime. Make the recipient a minimum of 65 years old.
Ricky,
Thanks Bro!
Thanks Bro!
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
[Becky Petersen] Make the recipient a minimum of 65 years old.Better yet, why not make the minimum age 53, then I can start calling schools to see which one of them wants to honor me for my years of great humility!
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Well, Brian, my wife and I homeschool our kids (and are registered as an official private school in CA), so would we qualify as a school you could schmooze? I’m the superintendent and I’d be happy to give you a D.D. for the tremendous humility that you have shown in your post. Feel free to PM me for the official price. Oh, and the same for anyone else over 53… (Notice the tongue in my cheek). :-)
By the way, on top of all these things is the issue with the universal church issue which seems to be gaining momentum these days. Chappell/West Coast believe the church started with the calling of the twelve and don’t believe in the universal church. You can debate when the church started, but this view gets a little weird in the baptism into one body/water baptism/church membership thing.
To be honest…not a big fan. Very “impressive” web-site, church building, college, students, etc. that’s for sure…but I think that’s exactly the image they’re going for and personally find it a disingenuous attempt at marketing their product. Frankly, from my perspective, this is 1st Baptist of Hammond 2.0.
By the way, on top of all these things is the issue with the universal church issue which seems to be gaining momentum these days. Chappell/West Coast believe the church started with the calling of the twelve and don’t believe in the universal church. You can debate when the church started, but this view gets a little weird in the baptism into one body/water baptism/church membership thing.
To be honest…not a big fan. Very “impressive” web-site, church building, college, students, etc. that’s for sure…but I think that’s exactly the image they’re going for and personally find it a disingenuous attempt at marketing their product. Frankly, from my perspective, this is 1st Baptist of Hammond 2.0.
[Charlie] Aaron, I don’t think you’re grasping the essential point of a D.D., at least how it has been historically understood, as Joseph mentioned above. The D.D. is for accomplishments in the realm of scholarship that would be similar to the finished product of a doctoral program. For example, James Dale produced a multi-volume examination of the word βαπτιζω throughout the history of the Greek language, and for that he was awarded a D.D.. You’re not supposed to get them for building big churches or writing popular-level books or bringing the gospel to millions via radio. Those are all worthy accomplishments and very likely quite difficult, but they are not academic accomplishments. Why would you give an academic certification to someone who has distinguished himself in a non-academic field? Do you ordain professional singers? Do you give medical licenses to philanthropists? It’s simply a confusion of fields.
I get what your saying, Charlie. But the educational world has kept moving and whether we like or not, the lines are now greatly blurred between academic learning and “practical” or technical learning. There is a blurring between book learning and real life ministry skills. I’m really not convinced it’s entirely a bad thing—but I’b baised because I haven’t done any classroom work for more than a decade.
I really just have two points, I think.
1. The honorary doctorate is now awarded pretty often for what would be considered non-academic accomplishment.
2. The difference between academic knowledge and “skill” knowledge—in administration, working with people, using Scripture in ministry, etc. is real, but they are both knowledge. I’m not convinced either is superior to the other.
But I sympathize. I like time honored traditions and the tradition of a school giving degrees for school-type-work only is not one I would be eager to see go if it weren’t already too late.
But since we have lots and lots of non-academic schools now, “degrees” don’t mean “academic” so much in people’s minds anymore. That ship has set sail.
[Becky P] Aaron, I don’t think that most pastors of really “Big churches” actually do the work themselves. What they are is great administrators—not necessarily great preachers, soulwinners, etc. The person who gets the PhD did the work HIMSELF.
Well, I’m afraid I know by experience (though on a very small scale!) that administration is work… that you do yourself. :)
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
This isn’t unique to Fundamentalist institutions…
http://www.onlineschools.org/2009/10/21/10-surprising-celebs-with-honor…
http://www.onlineschools.org/2009/10/21/10-surprising-celebs-with-honor…
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
[Aaron Blumer][Charlie]True…but it IS administrative work. That is tough, of course, but it is different from the the actual “manual labor”. I remember my boss getting all the credit for the work that was done in my department when I studied. I also remembered thinking that I don’t think he knew how to about actually to do the work that we did— I remember wishing that my immediate supervisor (or one of the other people who actually did the labor) would get a bit of the credit. It’s probably why I dislike the world of politics or Christian politics so much.
Well, I’m afraid I know by experience (though on a very small scale!) that administration is work… that you do yourself. :)
I’ve heard of too many big named pastors/preachers that had huge reputations, but they picked at their underlings and they were cruel in small ways. Why people stayed by their side remains a mystery to me. Apparently there are those in leadership that have a masterful ability to control others and they’ve learned to use it to their advantage. When I know a person is like that, it just makes me want to find a small church to help out.
I like hearing about big named preachers who are actually as nice to everyone—the little people who will never benefit their ministry as well as important, powerful people. Unfortunately the whole Christian scene seems to have gone “political”.
Greg…I see that Kermit the frog got an honorary doctorate. Nice.
Hey, Kermit is one of the all time greats. Becky… I see your point and I agree that it seems there has never been a shortage of ‘leader-types’ who are willing to take credit for other people’s efforts. And I don’t deny the whole “political” problem either.
But I’ll stand by Kermit to my grave.
But I’ll stand by Kermit to my grave.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
That’s DR. THE FROG to you!
:D
:D
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
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