Did Al Mohler imply Christians who don’t vote Republican are ‘unfaithful’?

Human Dignity is important, he states, yet it is okay to herd a bunch of immigrants into planes and land them in an island in the ocean.

We are at war, I agree. But I question whether that war is a culture war between two political parties, or that it is a spiritual war between light and darkness. If it is the latter, than things like the overturning of Roe v. Wade at the federal level hasn’t moved the needle one inch.

he states, yet it is okay to herd a bunch of immigrants into planes and land them in an island in the ocean.

Did he state this? And what are you referring to?

[dgszweda]

Human Dignity is important, he states, yet it is okay to herd a bunch of immigrants into planes and land them in an island in the ocean.

I quickly read both sources above, and as far as I could tell, neither mentioned that Mohler said anything about immigration.

However, in my opinion, I can’t see how sending immigrants to a very rich location that, according to PBS, has called itself a “sanctuary destination that welcomes migrants” is somehow LESS dignified than letting them sleep out on the sidewalk unprotected in >100-degree temperatures in areas that are dealing with thousands of immigrants and don’t have the resources to help them.

Sure, you can call that a political stunt, but when migrants have signed releases that they agree to go to those places, and their travel expenses are paid, it’s hardly undignified, and certainly not moreso than the thousands that the Biden administration has flown all over the country, in many cases, to destinations that are not welcoming, sanctuary destinations.

However, neither the Biden administration’s flights nor the flights by governors, etc., are being done by Christian organizations, so those actions have nothing to do with evangelicals or Mohler.

[Larry]

he states, yet it is okay to herd a bunch of immigrants into planes and land them in an island in the ocean.

Did he state this? And what are you referring to?

He stated, Human Dignity was important. I made the comment about the immigrants. I struggle with people supporting the need to protect life and human dignity as solely around the protection of a fetus, yet the conservatives can cheer when we load up a bunch of immigrants, get them to sign non-disclosure paperwork, drop them off in an island in the Atlantic and then laugh watching how the residents of Martha’s Vineyard deal with the situation.

I say bring in as many immigrants as we can as quickly as we can, screening only for criminals.

[dgszweda]

I say bring in as many immigrants as we can as quickly as we can, screening only for criminals.

And how many is the number that the U.S. can realistically handle? And why, if they are not candidates for political or religious asylum, should we indiscriminately open our borders to those who simply want to come? A nation has every right to protect its borders and limit immigration to protect its interests.

As regards how we act as Christians towards illegal immigrants, I would absolutely agree with showing charity where we can (without aiding or encouraging lawlessness), as well as witnessing to them, and maybe seeing them converted. They are not our enemies, but they are disobeying the laws of our country. However, for those that are truly converted, I would also recommend to them that they come clean to the authorities about their actions if they entered illegally, as it is our duty as Christians to obey the laws of the land.

Legal Immigration only. Illegal Immigration is creating massive problems that most in America haven’t experienced yet. Controlling the borders is not a Christian issue but a practical security issue.

They’ve actually got documentation that the illegals flown to Martha’s Vineyard agreed to be sent there. There was no herding that we can prove at this point.

That noted, I am good with including immigration in the list of key issues, and what’s worth noting is that the current system—largely coyotes shepherding illegals across the border—tends to result in a LOT of abuses against illegals. Friends of mine who work with them note that young, attractive women are generally raped on their way north, for example, and yes, we are talking about teens, too. You also have the horrendous abuses like the truck left to cause about 50 immigrants to die in the Texas sun at 120F, and quite frankly, there’s a fair amount of evidence that many employers like hiring illegals quite frankly because they can be abused more easily—you just tell them “I’ll be calling ICE”, and problem is largely solved.

So what about a system of punishing employers who knowingly hire illegals, creating a decent border barrier, and harshly punishing the coyotes? It would be far more beneficial to all involved, from the illegal immigrants to unskilled workers here, and finally of course the taxpayer.

First, we don’t know what they signed. Only a few days later lawsuits are starting around the fact that they were lied to and misled. Let’s see where this goes in the court system. I don’t buy that this was some innocent act, and that they all agreed to come to Martha’s Vineyard all on their own with no cohersion.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/marthas-vineyard-migrants-lawsuit-florida-…

Also, not sure who we think are the coyotes?

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/19/us/bexar-county-texas-migrant-investigat…

This country was founded on immigration. My great grandparents were immigrants. How many can we take? A ton! The birthrate in the US is declining. That is bad for the economy on so many levels. Will they take jobs from people in the US? Never been proven. What we do know is that each of them will need housing, clothes, transportation, gasoline, food, there kids will need to be educated, which means more schools. All of their needs, creates lots of jobs for everyone. And not just for blue collar workers. If a school needs to be built, who needs to install all of the IT equipment? Sell software to the schools?…. Immigrants create more jobs than they take. So bring them in!

David: We should distinguish legal immigration from illegally crossing borders. You give the impression that the over 2 million illegal immigrants so far this year are acceptable. Also: I imagine the immigrants themselves are not filing lawsuits but political liberals on their behalf who see this as an opportunity to score political points.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

Well at least Mohler and Dog the Bounty Hunter have something in common. Both evangelicals pushing Christians to vote for Republicans.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/dog-bounty-hunter-says-little-18475…

[WallyMorris]

David: We should distinguish legal immigration from illegally crossing borders. You give the impression that the over 2 million illegal immigrants so far this year are acceptable. Also: I imagine the immigrants themselves are not filing lawsuits but political liberals on their behalf who see this as an opportunity to score political points.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/southwest-land-border-encounters

Yes. 2.3 Million immigrants were arrested crossing the border between Mexico and the US. They should initially be sent back. But in general, I think we should have a better path for people to enter into our country legally and become part of the population, just like many of our ancestors.

It is unclear who is spurring the lawsuits, but it may be a good guess that some if not most are triggered by lawyers meeting with the displaced people. But if the initial reports that are coming out are partially true, it is a pretty sad. Why did my Florida tax dollars pay to have asylum seekers in San Antonio flown to Martha’s Vineyard. This is a really good fiscally conservative Republican thing to do. Shown below are the brochures that they had on them. All of these services are for refugee’s. None of these individuals were refugees, they are asylum seekers. It will be interesting to see who this “Perla” is, who gave them all money and gift cards to sign the paperwork and board the plane for their brand new jobs in Boston.

I struggle with people supporting the need to protect life and human dignity as solely around the protection of a fetus, yet the conservatives can cheer when we load up a bunch of immigrants, get them to sign non-disclosure paperwork, drop them off in an island in the Atlantic and then laugh watching how the residents of Martha’s Vineyard deal with the situation.

First, is there anyone who actually believes that protecting life and human dignity is “solely” about the protection of a fetus? I have never run across this person. My guess is you haven’t either. So why say it? To say that pro-life is about the unborn is in the same vein as saying BLM is about police brutality. BLM doesn’t mean that other lives don’t matter. It was used to focus on a particular societal issue (whether right or wrong). Most pro-life people I am aware of care deeply about euthanasia, which is about as far from fetus as you can get. They care about providing for families and children and they do it through their own resources quite often. They simply disagree about the best mechanism for helping them.

Second, calling Martha’s Vineyard an “island in the Atlantic” seems to paint a picture that while, perhaps technically true is not entirely accurate. It is an “island in the Atlantic” about the same way that Long Island is an island in the Atlantic. It is one of the most desirable places in the country to live. It is a place that declared itself to be open to immigrants.

Third, what is the problem with sending someone to Martha’s Vineyard? Or Chicago (an island in Illinois??)? Is that somehow worse than Florida or Texas?

We all know this was a political move to expose the hypocrisy of the left. And it worked. But it’s hard to see the tie to Christianity here (aside from political goals). Is there a biblical reason why moving immigrants to Chicago or Martha’s Vineyard is sinful while moving them to Miami or El Paso or Houston is righteous?
Does the Bible require open borders? What about the biblical requirement for rulers to rule justly and to uphold the laws? Does the Bible’s command to care for others have no practical limitations? Does it require the possibility that the US become home to 8 billion people? I think immigration is a a feel-good issue for some. It allows them to virtue signal at no cost to themselves.
It seems like this an attempt to virtue signal by tying a political issue to the Bible and using it as a club over those who disagree. Or to put it differently, it sounds a lot of Jeffries or some other evangelical Trump supporters.

And none of this actually addresses what Mohler said. What did he say that was wrong? Should Christians vote unwisely? Should they vote for those who hold to evil principles? What is the alternative?

[Larry]

First, is there anyone who actually believes that protecting life and human dignity is “solely” about the protection of a fetus? I have never run across this person.

You can say what you want, but it is clear that this was just a pure political stunt. And it was done preying on the dignity of human immigrants. Martha’s Vineyard is not like Long Island. It is a 7 miles off the coast, only accessible through the payment of ferries or airplanes. It was specifically chosen to put a burden on those in Martha’s Vineyard and the immigrants, making it hard to leave with no services or prospects.

If you think how those immigrants were treated was reflective of how we should treat those in need, than I am sorry. These are people who have suffered much. More than you and I will ever suffer in our lifetime. And if we as Christians are going to preach about sanctity of life and doing everything we humanely can do to save an innocent child from death, yet turn to those who are suffering and play games with them to prove a point, or to stick it to the liberals, is really, really sad. And that is the inconsistency with the party. If they truly believed in dignity, there would be a root of compassion in this type of behavior or stunt. We will speak out about abortion, but we will defend the behaviors that contribute to what they did to these Venzualans. Who are not pawns, but people made in the image of God.

So before people like Mohler preach about the dignity of life and how it is important to vote for Republicans, because they uphold the dignity of life, we should really examine what the party does. Which is not about dignity of life in as much as it is about votes.

David’s comments equally apply to both major USA political parties. Both political parties are inconsistent. I expect inconsistency. They are political. Votes are always a major concern. Otherwise the political party will cease to exist. The question is which candidate or political party aligns best with Biblical principles and my personal beliefs. Mohler believes the Republican party does that better, although imperfectly. If we allow inconsistency to discourage us from voting for a political party or candidate, then we will not vote for anyone.

The problems of immigration go back decades, as each political party applied band-aid solutions. Even Reagan was unable/unwilling to confront the problem completely. Gospel opportunities are certainly present with the massive numbers of illegal immigrants. But we cannot let those opportunities obscure the necessity of controlling the borders.

The fact that transporting illegal aliens from Point A to Point B is now all of a sudden a grave moral issue deserving of scorn and condemnation reflects the absolute hypocrisy and lack of principle in the Democrat party, the mainstream media and some on this thread.

So, illegal aliens are suddenly “pawns” when transported to a vacation destination with abundant infrastructure (housing, food and resources), yet all we heard were crickets from our moral betters when they were shipped cross country under the cloak of darkness to rural towns and counties.

Where have you been over the past 18 months? Spare us the moral outrage. Please.