Why Your Employer Can Deny Your ‘Religious’ Vaccine Exemption

Maybe. Maybe Not. The Supreme Court has ruled that a “religious belief” is a belief that a person holds “religiously”. Such a belief may or may not include “God”. Whatever a person’s opinion on this topic, look for legal challenges on both sides of the issue, with Supreme Court involvement. Side Point: Those Christians who could not vote for Donald Trump because of what they perceived to be ethical/Scriptural concerns are now seeing the result of either not voting or voting for Biden.

[WallyMorris]

Maybe. Maybe Not. The Supreme Court has ruled that a “religious belief” is a belief that a person holds “religiously”. Such a belief may or may not include “God”. Whatever a person’s opinion on this topic, look for legal challenges on both sides of the issue, with Supreme Court involvement. Side Point: Those Christians who could not vote for Donald Trump because of what they perceived to be ethical/Scriptural concerns are now seeing the result of either not voting or voting for Biden.

I tend to hold a little more strongly to the individual who has spent much of their career as a religious liberty attorney. There are limits to religious belief, such as polygamy. Workplace vaccine mandates, employment vaccine mandates and school vaccine mandates have been around since the very beginning of this nation. They are not here because of whether someone voted for Biden or not. For now, I am 100% fine with vaccine mandates and find that much more agreeable than the storming of the capital and the desire to hang the VP of the United States on gallows erected on the Capital lawn. But hey, that is just me.

I personally don’t find any of this an over reach. The government takes money forcefully out of my paycheck every month and uses it for programs that I neither find Biblical nor do I support. I am required to obey traffic laws, wear my seatbelts… I had to get a whole slew of vaccines before attending college last year that were required. I personally don’t believe there is a valid relgious reason not to get the vaccine, but I know others may disagree.

For now, I am 100% fine with vaccine mandates and find that much more agreeable than the storming of the capital and the desire to hang the VP of the United States on gallows erected on the Capital lawn. But hey, that is just me.

This is a bit confusing. What does storming the capital and desiring to hang the VP have to do with vaccine mandates? Or is that just a gratuitious shot at people who think there may have been an issue in the election?

You have built up a good amount of credibility in your explanations of the vaccine here. This kind of comment undermines that. It is not “just you.” The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Americans and of Trump supporters agree with you about much of the events of January 6th. In fact, Trump himself agrees with you. Taking a gratuitous shot doesn’t help your position or your credibility.

[Larry]

For now, I am 100% fine with vaccine mandates and find that much more agreeable than the storming of the capital and the desire to hang the VP of the United States on gallows erected on the Capital lawn. But hey, that is just me.

This is a bit confusing. What does storming the capital and desiring to hang the VP have to do with vaccine mandates? Or is that just a gratuitious shot at people who think there may have been an issue in the election?

Larry, it was in relation to this comment, “who could not vote for Donald Trump because of what they perceived to be ethical/Scriptural concerns are now seeing the result of either not voting or voting for Biden” in the first post. I was stating that my concern with Trump was more aggregious than a concern with Biden’s vaccine mandate. Has nothing to do with the vaccine in and of itself.

Trump encouraged, but did not require, covid vaccinations. Pres Biden is requiring covid vaccinations, and those who refuse are a “problem”, with some even suggesting separating the non-vaccinated from the rest of the population. His language and tone of voice raise legitimate concerns. My wife and I chose to receive the Moderna vaccinations. Key Word: “chose”. To mandate a vaccine that is statistically safe but does have a higher rate of complications than other vaccines is not the same as other required vaccinations from long-established vaccines. What you now see coming from the Biden administration on a wide range of topics IS the result of either voting for him or not voting at all.

[dgszweda]

Larry, it was in relation to this comment, “who could not vote for Donald Trump because of what they perceived to be ethical/Scriptural concerns are now seeing the result of either not voting or voting for Biden” in the first post. I was stating that my concern with Trump was more aggregious than a concern with Biden’s vaccine mandate. Has nothing to do with the vaccine in and of itself.

The horrendous results of Biden becoming president are only now becoming obvious (including vaccine mandates, which he previously said would not happen, even though those are minor compared to most of what he has done). Whatever issues you had with Trump, when you voted, your issues did NOT include what happened on January 6th, which was 2 months after the election, and as Larry pointed out, have been decried even by Trump himself as well as the vast majority of those who voted for him.

Lets be very clear. First, Biden is only proposing a vaccine mandate outside of the federal government. Second, it is yet to be seen whether this mandate can be implemented through OSHA or if it holds up to legal scrutiny. Third, many companies were already moving forward with vaccine mandates with or without Biden, and many that had not moved yet, were just waiting for some verbal direction.

Again, for me, I don’t consider the mandate as some kind of horrendous result of Biden becoming president. I also don’t view anything that he has done as that grave yet. I am doubtful that in the end he will get much accomplished. And despite all of the grave concerns of electing a pro-abortion president, abortion laws are actually becoming more restrictive. Taking the path that I have said for the last two years would be taken.

Lastly, January 6th was just the output of all of the terrible things that Trump was already doing. I know many on here don’t have the same view as I have of Trump, but I view Trump as one of the greatest threats to our democracy. I appreciated some of the stuff that he did, but feel that he is a terribly broken person with a strong narcsistic personality and one that has practically no morals. I also personally believe that the entire Republican party needs to be gutted. The vast majority of those who voted for Trump did not decry what happened on January 6th. In fact nearly half of Republicans felt it was a legitimate protest, and the vast majority of the Republicans in Congress did not see it as something that should have resulted in a reprimand, and it is now coming to light that some even supported the rioters at various strategic levels.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/06/17/nearly-half-of-rep…

David, the trick here is that Biden is more or less saying to those who contract with the federal government “nice bidness ya got there….would be a shame if something happened to it.” Everybody knows that the bureaucracy is weaponized against the opponents of the left at this point. So even if he (as I believe he should) gets slapped into next week by the courts, he gets a lot of what he wants—and as Dave Barnhart notes, specifically contrary to his campaign promises.

And even worse, he’s doing it just as the evidence is getting far stronger that for the majority of the country that doesn’t suffer huge consequences from COVID, that natural immunity is far more effective.

[Bert Perry]

that natural immunity is far more effective.

This is not the case

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/covid-19-studies-natural-immunity-ver…

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.ht…

I would be careful of the Israeli studies at this point in time because they are the only ones getting the data results and so it hasn’t been confirmed yet.

David, it’s not “false”, but rather “disputed.” Your first link merely says “there are methodological issues with the Israeli study, hence our study is better”, but reality is that any reasonably educated person will generally be able to find a methodological issue with any study. If he can’t, you’d better take his pulse!

The second link you provide only compares natural immunity to natural immunity plus vaccine immunity. More or less, it proves a + b > a if b > 0. It says nothing about the relative power of natural immunity vs. vaccination.

There are apparently a lot of other studies besides the Israeli study as well—at this point, I don’t expect them to be uniform or monolithic, but we really ought to at least honor the ambiguity in the results. Probably the biggest tragedy in this whole debacle, in my view, is that by speaking emphatically in areas where there’s really a lot of doubt, the public health establishment has forfeited public trust that’s been built for about a century. Again, Fauci’s lie about masks, his failure to act to protect nursing homes, and now this.

It’s also going to be a huge disaster. Living near Rochester, I’ve got a number of friends working at a little clinic you might have heard of, and they’re looking at about 2-3% of employees quitting rather than take the vaccine at a time when many employees are already on mandatory OT. We’re talking about a recipe for burnout and even a fair number of injuries from this—both on the patient side and the providers. Other hospitals of which I’m aware in Michigan and elsewhere are looking into the maw of the same thing.

It’s long past time for Fauci to make a series of apologies and resign, and those that replace him need to start the hard process of persuasion.

[Bert Perry]

Living near Rochester, I’ve got a number of friends working at a little clinic you might have heard of, and they’re looking at about 2-3% of employees quitting rather than take the vaccine at a time when many employees are already on mandatory OT. We’re talking about a recipe for burnout and even a fair number of injuries from this—both on the patient side and the providers.

I live just down the street from the same clinic, but their Jacksonville campus. My next door neighbor is an anesthesiologist there. We were talking outside a few weeks ago and he said that they were not requiring vaccines. You have the option of a vaccine or wearing masks, social distancing, education. He wasn’t aware of any large quitings.

The general consensus at this time is that you should still get a vaccination if you have had COVID. The biggest reason is that upwards of 30% don’t have antibodies after contracting COVID. Since you have already had COVID, than the vaccine should not be an issue anyway. COVID is signifantly more dangerous than anything found in the vaccine.

There’s a reason Mayo’s not doing vaccine mandates in Florida. DeSantis signed legislation banning passports in May, and a bill to ban mandates altogether is in the works. So they’re caught between Biden’s executive order and Florida state law. No matter what, they end up in court if one of those they ignore decides to sue.

Which means the impact in Rochester is going to be even more horrendous, as it’s a bigger portion of employees there, then. I know personally two people who have already left as a result—I don’t agree with their decision, but they’re leaving. I also know a nurse manager who’s pushing 65 hours per week trying to hold things together, nurses are on mandatory OT, and a pathologist friends notes that the residents are needing to look at test results late into the night because the lab crew is so overworked. An additional 2-4% hit in head count will be killer.

I’m not against the vaccines, and got the J&J last April. I’d consider getting a booster if it’s recommended for me. I just think that trying to mandate them is a horrendously bad idea that only deepens well-earned distrust of Dr. Fauci and the public health system. More or less, “Well, due to a clear pattern of lying here, you’re not trusting us, so we’re going to threaten you with impoverishment instead of apologizing and trying to persuade you.” It’s the Vito Corleone method of public relations, really.

[Bert Perry]

I just think that trying to mandate them is a horrendously bad idea that only deepens well-earned distrust of Dr. Fauci and the public health system. More or less, “Well, due to a clear pattern of lying here, you’re not trusting us, so we’re going to threaten you with impoverishment instead of apologizing and trying to persuade you.” It’s the Vito Corleone method of public relations, really.

But, what I struggle with is, how is the mandate any different for healthcare workers, than the vaccines already mandated for healthcare workers. The idea of mandating vaccines for healthcare workers is nothing new, is built into the culture of the job and has been going on for decades. And I believe the only exemptions are for medical reasons (at least that was what it used to be). A very small minority are refusing it (anywhere from 1% to 5%), and a lot of times they are for bizarre reasons. The top reasons that I have heard cited for why healthcare workers are refusing the COVID vaccine are:

• Research was done too quickly
• It wasn’t fully approved by the FDA
• They already have antibodies
• It affects fertility

All of these are have been scientifically proven not to be a issue. Other vaccines that healthcare workers are required to take have significant warnings on them as well. So I kind of scratch my head on this one.

David, you may disagree on some of the particulars here, but my take is that the conduct of health authorities (like Dr. Fauci) has been so bad, that people don’t trust them when they say what you note here. If you’re not trusted, you cannot do a top down imposition of a mandate without incredible pushback. If Fauci wants to enhance vaccination rates, he’s got to admit some of his lies and egregious errors and resign. There will be some who, regrettably, see that as endorsement of the nonsense artists out there.

More or less, if they’re not able & willing to read the technical papers and figure out what they actually mean, the major issue is trust. It’s been lost.

I find the right wants to throw Fauci under the bus all the time. And paint him as the scapegoat. And while he hasn’t been perfect, I don’t think he is way off the mark on a once in a lifetime, ever changing pandemic. I think his biggest issue is that he is just too much in the news.

With that said, why is the right putting all of this importance on Fauci. Forget Fauci, have a discussion with your primary care physician. If you don’t like the politics of America, than listen to Emer Cooke of the EMA. Read the literature. Many of the people who are really mad at Fauci, or just going the way of other crazy people and notions. I personally don’t know why a single sane person would want to be associated with anything political. I wouldn’t have made it as long as Fauci. No matter what he says, you have an entire machine and industry that is doing nothing but tearing him apart, finding any little sentence they can, haul him in front of Congress and then grill him. I wonder how successful any of us would be in our jobs if half of the leadership of the company was recording everything we said at work/meetings/emails and then having a group of consultants dig through it to find inconsistencies, improper approaches….. I don’t know about you but I would quit. This is the cycle of politics in the last few years. The Republicans were for vaccinations and created an amazing model to accelerate it. The Democrats were saying that they weren’t going to take it, and that there would be investigations. Then as soon as Biden became president. The Republicans are calling vaccines crazy and refusing vaccines and the Democrats are all for it. Just crazy.