California, LA County both to pay $400,000 settlement to John MacArthur’s church

Can you provide a link to his admission of lying to his congregation? I had not heard that.

https://julieroys.com/john-macarthur-church-covid-outbreak/

Overall deception from MacArthur and especially the leaders of GCC.

[Jay] Despite protestations to the contrary, COVID did tear through the congregation and MacArthur did indeed have COVID during the last months of 2020-early 2021 when he took his mysterious three week break from preaching to “rest”.

https://reformationcharlotte.org/2021/08/30/john-macarthur-reveals-that-…

I see 2 problems with your assertions:

• “COVID did tear through the congregation”. This is such an imprecise phrase! “tear through”
• “MacArthur did indeed have COVID … he took his mysterious three week break from preaching”. Is there a moral imperative to disclose the specifics of one’s medical condition(s)? I don’t think so!

I know the ‘discernment ministries’ (and I use the word ‘ministries’ with contempt) scream at ever little so-called ‘inconsistency’. I suggest that one be cautious before calling Mac a liar.

I see a lack of forthrightness there and probably breaking public health law. I am specifically asking about an admission that he deceived his congregation.

The “Discernment Ministries”

• To whom are they accountable?
• Often don’t have a doctrinal statement
• No one has ‘eyes’ on them

I saw something about a new book that says 1/3 of the marriages in conservative churches are abusive. Really!!!????

Jim,

GCC is well documented as having multiple cases of COVID in the congregation and has not reported them to LA County. That is the entire point of the government’s actions, and now MacArthur says this under oath:

“many people contracted COVID…it probably went through our church in maybe December or January…Patricia and I enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half” at the time.”

Julie Roys reported this and Phil Johnson released her home address to 55,000 followers on Twitter in retaliation for it. He later did repost after blurring the address but the damage was done.

I’m sorry you don’t like “discernment bloggers”, but that’s not the issue. The issue is “Did John MacArthur tell the truth to his congregation?” He is on the record as saying “there is no pandemic”. There was, and at least three people died of the pandemic he decried and who got it from MacArthur affiliated events like ShepCon 2020. John, his wife, and a number of others all suffered for his folly.

[Jay]

GCC is well documented as having multiple cases of COVID in the congregation and has not reported them to LA County.

Was there a legal requirement for GCC to report COVID cases to the state? I do see this link: https://tinyurl.com/3ndxs7t8

It’s pretty narrow (not “in the congregation”)

[Jay]

Julie Roys reported this and Phil Johnson released her home address to 55,000 followers on Twitter in retaliation for it. He later did repost after blurring the address but the damage was done.

This isn’t the issue either! And how do you know he did it “in retaliation”? And what “damage was done”? Jusr Google her name and you can easily find her address. Google my name and you can easily find my address.

[Jay] He is on the record as saying “there is no pandemic”. There was, and at least three people died of the pandemic he decried and who got it from MacArthur affiliated events like ShepCon 2020. John, his wife, and a number of others all suffered for his folly.

• At the stage he made the statement, many voiced that view (it wasn’t my view then nor is it now!). My own view: It’s a pandemic but not 1918 like. In Feb 2020 WHO stated: Coronavirus Is Not Yet a Pandemic.
• How do we know that the 3 who died caught it at the conference?
• On the ones who “suffered for his folly” … perhaps another view is that they made free choices weighing the risks. People take risks and experience the consequences: Sturgis, public protesting in throngs, et cetera

To whom is Julie Roys accountable?

• She disclosed Mac’s salary. What’s her’s?
• She says she’s a non-profit. Can’t find her organization on https://www.guidestar.org/search. What’s her organizations EIN? Does she file 990’s? Legal Zoom for $ 99 can turn it quickly!
• What church does she attend? What’s her doctrinal position? Who’s her board of directors?

As usual, those who dislike Mac Arthur perceive deliberate deceptions in every possible statement. Those who respect his ministry see the same statements in an entirely different light. Is a pastor required to publicly disclose the nature of an illness immediately? (Mac Arthur did publicly disclose his Covid in August.) Is failure to say what one is not required to say a lie? I’m thankful that God is the final and perfectly righteous judge, and not some of our SI friends!

However, the one indisputable fact is the courts ruled in favor of Mac Arthur and Grace Community Church. In this day of growing hostility toward Christians, that’s huge. A second obvious fact is that Mac Arthur’s legal victory helps all Christians in regard to religious liberty. Could we take a break from criticizing Mac Arthur long enough to express gratitude for the outcome of this ruling?

I’m the person who originally asked for proof that JMac admitted lying to his congregation. I have disagreed with his approach from the beginning and continue to do so. I still have not seen evidence of an outright lie but I feel his approach has been unnecessarily antagonistic.

I guess not. Some are unwilling to give Mac Arthur credit for winning a huge religious freedom court case that helps all Christians. Instead, disagreement and unhappiness must be expressed without any hint of appreciation. Sigh.

[G. N. Barkman]

I guess not. Some are unwilling to give Mac Arthur credit for winning a huge religious freedom court case that helps all Christians. Instead, disagreement and unhappiness must be expressed without any hint of appreciation. Sigh.

In my first post on this thread I did express appreciation for a religious liberty win.

That being said, I understand your point, but I view his behavior over the last year as being wrong and I’m not going to give him praise for what he’s done. It’s great that he had a religious liberty win, but it’s never right to do wrong in order to get a chance to do right.

Ken, I’m thankful that you understand my point. And I’m thankful, as well, that you intended to state your appreciation for Mac Arthur’s court victory for religious freedom that benefits all Christians. Since I couldn’t remember such a statement, I just went back and re-read your first two posts. I still can’t find it. Where did you express such appreciation?

For me, so much of this comes down to ethics. Yes, I am happy that the court case sided with GCC. It wasn’t a surprise since, in the last 25 years of the culture war, the courts have generally sided with religious liberty, whether it be on the college campus or with the church. It was going to happen no matter whose church was challenging the overreach of the courts. It wasn’t like this was the landmark case in our country about religious liberty either. Capital Hill Baptist won their case earlier this summer. South Bay’s United Pentecostal church’s case (a megachurch in San Diego) went all the way to the US supreme court and won back in April. It just happens that GCC and JMac have a bigger social platform in our circles so we think it is the main court case.

My frustration with GCC is their toxic culture of cover-up when it comes to JMac, COVID, and etc… Their PR responses are so similar to how late 20th century-21st century politicians handle potential embarrassing information flow (very worldly) Had JMac and the GCC come out back in January that JMac and many others in the church had COVID, it would’ve gone against the public narrative (not the judicial narrative) they were saying about COVID and why they should be able to meet, and how they should be able to meet. (That COVID is a lot less deadly than the flu, that there hasn’t been any outbreak of COVID cases in GCC, and etc…). So no, I don’t believe there was outright lying, but a typical “political” PR level of deception, especially for a church that claims to value truth over everything. If I used the fundamentalist language of yesteryear that I grew up on, they were being “worldly” in their approach instead of being above reproach.

The ends do not justify the means. So that is why I push back against JMac, GTY, The Founders Group, Voddie Baucham, the G3 Folks, James White, Sovereign Nations, and etc… that are fighting a culture war with a shallow foundation of personal and social ethics. I also find it quite strange that we are praising JMac for taking a stand for religious liberty and freedom when back in March stated, “I told our congregation a few weeks ago that I could never really concern myself with religious freedom. I wouldn’t fight for religious freedom because I won’t fight for idolatry. Why would I fight for the devil to have as many false religions as possible and all of them to be available to everyone?”