"Some of us who are tranquil as still water about biblical doctrine and ecclesial mission are red-faced about ...how scary national health care will be."

I have no idea where you are coming from — and I am not going to go any further with you on this.

If you want to accuse me of an “abysmal awareness of world affairs and political developments” and voice support for government-run healthcare which promotes abortion and attacks the foundation of the free-market system, feel free. But you are a different kind of fundamentalist than I know anything about. I will leave it to the site administrators to worry about your comments, qualifications and adherence to the doctrinal statement.

I feel that my question is fair. Political conservatism - as we define it - is rather new and limited in its existence. For instance, modern capitalism didn’t even exist until John Calvin accidentally laid the groundwork for it in the 16th century. Many of its other ideas and institutions came along later still, and further were generally not the work of Christians like Calvin but rather Enlightenment deists, rationalists and unitarians (like America’s own Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson) who would have been far more sympathetic to Michael Servetus. I would also propose that political conservatism has little reach, influence, or relevance outside relatively modern societies in general and the west specifically. Now of course, there is nothing wrong with preferring the American way of life, especially when we can see the alternatives in places like China, North Korea and Sudan. I just do not endorse the idea that American ideas, conservative ideas etc. are Christian ones and therefore are ones that Christians should try to preserve, promote and defend as a matter of the faith. Political conservatism is just something else created by fallen humanity. It is not a product of special grace, nor does it even represent some best effort or attempt of Christian men to govern themselves according to Biblical principles.

For example, take the Declaration of Independence. “That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” Now even when softened with “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed” that is still nothing less than an outright rejection of Romans 13:1-2, which reads “Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation” and similar New Testament texts (including commands in Romans 13:6 and Mark 12:17 to pay taxes - which were very high at the time - which the Declaration rejects with “For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent”). The Declaration of Independence is a humanist document, and so is the Constitution. We are subject to them not because they possess any special Godly virtue, but rather for the same reasons that Jesus Christ and Paul were to the extremely wicked Roman Empire that slew them both, and before then that God through His prophet Jeremiah told Israel to submit to Babylon, and earlier still David knew better than to lift his hand against Saul, and why even at the time of the Exodus, God did not have Israel defy pharoah, but God had them leave after pharoah commanded them to.

Now I am not saying that America was ever at any time as wicked as the Biblical Roman Empire, Babylon or Egypt. Nor am I claiming that America did not possess a great deal of order and virtue that its government and people are now turning its back on. I readily acknowledge that what is happening to our country politically, economically, culturally etc. is a great shame. The shame of it, however, does not alter the fact that Old Testament Israel was the only nation (by this I mean state or political entity) created by God to fulfill God’s special and unique purposes, and towards that end was given rules by God for its governance.

And to that I must somewhat endorse the point made by Chris C. when he spoke of “opposition politics” being in play here: so much more angst over Christian conservatives over Obama’s machinations than the things that Bush and Reagan did to push us towards a one world government and economy (and to keep abortion legal). But because so many conservative Christians are convinced that Bush and Reagan were “one of them” and “on their side”, they seldom get spoken of.