Past Hammond Baptist pastor raped girl repeatedly, federal lawsuit alleges

Sumer’s paper, The Biblical Evangelist, exposed the mess. Voyle Glover published a book, Fundamental Seduction: The Jack Hyles Case, with the details.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Really, you guys, that appears in the list of the fruit of the Spirit exactly where?

You ought to know better than this.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

John 2:13-16, Matthew 21:12-17, Mark 11:15-19, Luke 19:45-8. No? Also Nehemiah 13:23-5, Ehud, Jael, and a host of others who wreaked righteous violence against the ungodly.

So yes, there are times where anger and physical assault are indeed what God intends, though I wouldn’t apply it as a general principle.

In this case, given that the girl had suffered, repeatedly, some degree of sexual assault, which is in extreme forms a capital crime in the Old Testament, I’d have applauded if the father had knocked either Hyles into next week, and if a juror in a trial of someone prosecuted for doing so, would most likely refuse to convict, no matter how strong the evidence was.

In defense of the father, he appears to have been a middle aged office dweller, whereas David Hyles was still a young man and may have had an entourage composed of steelworkers’ sons in their late teens. I grew up among those guys—not a fight I would pick.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Come on, Bert, even you are better than that.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

[Don Johnson]

Really, you guys, that appears in the list of the fruit of the Spirit exactly where?

You ought to know better than this.

Some times love is a pop in the face to a guy who condones his son raping girls… just saying. We are talking fairly extreme examples with Hyles and Co., are we not?

I spoke to a very mature Christian man recently. A solid guy. Decades ago, his daughter had been sexually abused as a little girl by a deacon in the church. The told me that he very nearly killed the deacon. He had weapons. He knew how to use them. He had planned how he would kill the man. He planned to bide his time and wait a few years, to avoid suspicion. Then, he would kill him and make it look like an accident.

But, he decided to not go through with it. We all know it isn’t right to think and plan these; vengeance belongs to the Lord. It’s not just a trite saying; it’s Scripture! But, oftentimes, we make our own plans because we’re sinful. Sometimes, we even carry those plans out.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.

Nice potshot, Don. I take it that’s your version of Galatians 5:22-3? Suffice it to say that I disagree with your translation, and wonder why actually engaging the argument seems to be something you can not, or will not, do.

Again, if we have numerous examples of the Prophets, Apostles, and even our Lord using physical force in certain egregious circumstances, why would we a priori say that using such force is ipso facto wrong? That is at least coming very, very close to blaspheming Christ and insulting the Apostles, Prophets, Judges, etc…

Really, Don, what you’re doing is asserting modern fundagelical culture over the example of Scripture. Dangerous business, to put it mildly.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

“One of the major inconsistencies within Fundamentalism today is that sin is so quietly and firmly swept under the rug and the guilty parties go free. Many who argue a cover-up for a fallen Fundamentalist are the first in line to condemn a Jim & Tammy Bakker or a Jimmy Swaggart. Where is the consistency – or even honesty – in this? Do we want to send a message to the world that if a man is “big” enough and ” fundamental” enough, he can get by with anything? I think not. One thing is sure: with the massive cover-ups we’ve had of late, not many preachers are “fearing”; if we can put some holy fear back into men of God, the time and money spent researching this article will have been worthwhile…”

-Dr. Robert L. Sumner, Biblical Evangelist

http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/jack_hyles_chapter3.php

David R. Brumbelow

When we say “vengeance is mine”, we’re originally referring to Deut. 32:35, where it’s in the context of God’s vengeance on all of Israel for their sin. On an individual level, that’s also what Hebrews 10:30-31 is doing.

Romans 12:19 comes closer, but note that it states getting vengeance “for yourself”, and that needs to be interpreted in the context of the rest of the Scriptures, yes, including John 2:13-16 and passages where a degree of human justice is obtained through the Church (Matthew 18:15-19 and 1 Cor. 6) or the state (Romans 13). As one can see in Luke 18:3-5, it’s really linked words and concepts.

How to apply it to this case, or the one Tyler mentions? Well, is the vengeance here for the victim’s sake, or her father’s? We might often wonder whether it’s really for the father, and in that case, that’s a barrier.

Another note here is that too often, “vengeance is mine” has been (wrongly) used not just to prevent vigilantism, but to prevent victims from getting any degree of justice, whether in the church (“just forgive and forget”), criminal courts, or civil courts. It almost sounds like Tyler’s friend was in that position.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Some of my family comes from Hylesism or FBC Hammond-like churches in that part of the country, as has a friend from college.

Raze it. Raze it all to below the foundations, then plow and salt the Earth and do it again. Let no stick or memory of it ever remain.

It is an accursed place where God was blasphemed flagrantly and often by those who claim to be His servants. And if the youth pastor repeatedly raped my daughter? You’d better believe that I’d be gunning for him in more than one way.

I’m deadly serious. That particular evil needs to be extirpated.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

We have folks advocating murder here and that’s apparently now acceptable on SI. Wow

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

But don’t tell me that if a youth pastor raped your son repeatedly that you wouldn’t be struggling with thoughts of vengeance.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

[Don Johnson]

We have folks advocating murder here and that’s apparently now acceptable on SI. Wow

Nope. It’s called “justifiable homicide” if your daughter has been repeatedly raped. It’s the same thing as when the stickup man at the stop and rob finds out that the clerk or a customer has both a gun and the drop on him, or the burglar learns the hard way that the biggest thing to fear was not the dog.

But I actually wasn’t endorsing killing him. I was thinking more like the “To the Pain” scene from The Princess Bride. Really, the Hyles family and First Baptist of Hammond ought to be very glad that the Old Testament custom of the “avenger of blood” isn’t current.

Hopefully the state of Indiana gets religion on this and extends the statute of limitations to a more reasonable duration so more victims can get a measure of justice, because, as Frederick Douglass noted, the four boxes of liberty are the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box. Those denied a hearing at the first three sometimes tend to use the fourth.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

To be sure, I am not advocating murder. I am just saying that people consider taking extreme measures when they or their loved ones are terribly wronged. The man I mentioned told me that, only by the grace of God, he decided to leave him to the Lord to take care of.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.