"Some of us who are tranquil as still water about biblical doctrine and ecclesial mission are red-faced about ...how scary national health care will be."
Some who are downplaying the scariness right now may have a very different opinion in about ten years. We’ll see.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Aaron,
I think you are probably right. But the author does bring out a great point. I was a little too hysterical over this issue this morning (not as much as many, but still too much) that I couldnt sleep after working at the hotel all night. I know people who havent shared the Gospel with anyone in years that are “evangelizing” about healthcare. That is a problem as you would agree.
I think you are probably right. But the author does bring out a great point. I was a little too hysterical over this issue this morning (not as much as many, but still too much) that I couldnt sleep after working at the hotel all night. I know people who havent shared the Gospel with anyone in years that are “evangelizing” about healthcare. That is a problem as you would agree.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
Rush Limbaugh was speaking today about the next presidential election as an if, not a when.
That may seem silly at first, but those of us who are pre-trib realize that there will be a time when the U.S. will not have free elections. It certainly seems like the actors are starting to get up on the stage and prepare.
If the Lord tarries, this leglislation will have disastrous consequences. To think otherwise is simply to put one’s head in the sand. If we want to remain a free people, this must be repealed.
That may seem silly at first, but those of us who are pre-trib realize that there will be a time when the U.S. will not have free elections. It certainly seems like the actors are starting to get up on the stage and prepare.
If the Lord tarries, this leglislation will have disastrous consequences. To think otherwise is simply to put one’s head in the sand. If we want to remain a free people, this must be repealed.
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
I’ve kind of stopped believing Rush for the most part. Still take in the program from time to time in part and sometimes enjoy it, but he so often distorts and exaggerates on matters I’m informed about that I can’t be sure of what he says on matters I’m not informed about.
Changing the subject—partly—why would pretrib mean a time when the US will not have elections?
OK, there’s apparently a global government at some point in there, maybe that’s what you’re referring to? But even in a global gov., there could still be national elections under the auspices of the global gov., even if they are rigged. I thought Rush’s comments on that were silly. Once a single part has complete control of the congress and whitehouse and can sustain that indefinitely by offering new entitlements to voters, there is no need to suspend elections. You already have a solid majority of voters who are not wise enough to look past “what’s in it for me?” eating out of your hand. You can buy all the votes you need. And even if for some reason that became impossible to sustain, it’s always easier to rig elections than to take them away from people who feel entitled to them. So the latter would be far more likely.
I hear the point about hysteria… and agree.
Changing the subject—partly—why would pretrib mean a time when the US will not have elections?
OK, there’s apparently a global government at some point in there, maybe that’s what you’re referring to? But even in a global gov., there could still be national elections under the auspices of the global gov., even if they are rigged. I thought Rush’s comments on that were silly. Once a single part has complete control of the congress and whitehouse and can sustain that indefinitely by offering new entitlements to voters, there is no need to suspend elections. You already have a solid majority of voters who are not wise enough to look past “what’s in it for me?” eating out of your hand. You can buy all the votes you need. And even if for some reason that became impossible to sustain, it’s always easier to rig elections than to take them away from people who feel entitled to them. So the latter would be far more likely.
I hear the point about hysteria… and agree.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
[Paul J. Scharf] That may seem silly at first, but those of us who are pre-trib realize that there will be a time when the U.S. will not have free elections.i actually think this idea is more interesting than the political side of your comment. i’m curious where you think pre-trib has anything to say about american government or even america at all. where do you think john’s revelation says anything about america?
[Paul J. Scharf] If the Lord tarries, this leglislation will have disastrous consequences. To think otherwise is simply to put one’s head in the sand. If we want to remain a free people, this must be repealed.sorry, but this is just crazy talking in the last sentence. there are so many places around the world that have a system for full health care coverage for every citizen (not just the 95% americans will get) and have a representative system of government and a market-driven economy. in fact, these other places consider health care to be a basic human right and can’t understand why so many would oppose the idea of health care for all.
so i guess what i’m saying is that there are so many examples of free and maybe freer people around the world with 100% of citizens having health care coverage that it’s just crazy to think that america is on the road to some totalitarian system because of health care and the only explanation i can see for the degree and method of the republican reaction is opposition politics.
[ChrisC] sorry, but this is just crazy talking in the last sentence. there are so many places around the world that have a system for full health care coverage for every citizen (not just the 95% americans will get) and have a representative system of government and a market-driven economy. in fact, these other places consider health care to be a basic human right and can’t understand why so many would oppose the idea of health care for all.
As a citizen and resident of one of those nations, just be aware that the chickens have not yet come home to roost on this question. All is not peaches and cream up here in the True North with respect to health care. Yes, we are all covered, and I personally have received far more than I have put in in taxes and premiums, but the whole system isn’t sustainable. Our government is trying to control costs by rationing care. It is just a fact of life. Our budgets are significantly impacted by health care and it is getting worse. Eventually the whole mess will collapse, but it takes a long time to bankrupt a modern nation.
[ChrisC] so i guess what i’m saying is that there are so many examples of free and maybe freer people around the world with 100% of citizens having health care coverage that it’s just crazy to think that america is on the road to some totalitarian system because of health care and the only explanation i can see for the degree and method of the republican reaction is opposition politics.
America is on the road to some totalitarian system for a number of reasons, not just health care.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
I believe it is possible to have the peace of knowing that God is in control and also have the fear of God. I am not afraid of Obama, Pelosi, Reed, and all of the cowards in congress who capitulate to them. I do know enough about God to fear His judgments on a nation that has been turning away from Him for a long time. The issues are so much bigger than healthcare and Repulicans and Democrats need to turn to God. As I fear God, I understand that my children may have to live in a Nation experiencing great judgements which does bring great challenges to life. Yes, God will care for them. Yes, I will try to do the best job I can to teach them to trust in the living God in all circumstances, but I will also keep on fearing the hand of God on such a rebellious Nation.
I think one of the problems today is that Christians are not afraid in the sense that they are not fearing God in their lives. We also don’t fear God as a Nation. It should be a cause of great concern motivating us to seek great grace. After all, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom (Prov. 1:7). The Lord knows how much we need it.
When the people of Ninevah got afraid and repented, God changed things.
I think one of the problems today is that Christians are not afraid in the sense that they are not fearing God in their lives. We also don’t fear God as a Nation. It should be a cause of great concern motivating us to seek great grace. After all, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom (Prov. 1:7). The Lord knows how much we need it.
When the people of Ninevah got afraid and repented, God changed things.
[ChrisC]Chris,[Paul J. Scharf] That may seem silly at first, but those of us who are pre-trib realize that there will be a time when the U.S. will not have free elections.i actually think this idea is more interesting than the political side of your comment. i’m curious where you think pre-trib has anything to say about american government or even america at all. where do you think john’s revelation says anything about america?[Paul J. Scharf] If the Lord tarries, this leglislation will have disastrous consequences. To think otherwise is simply to put one’s head in the sand. If we want to remain a free people, this must be repealed.sorry, but this is just crazy talking in the last sentence. there are so many places around the world that have a system for full health care coverage for every citizen (not just the 95% americans will get) and have a representative system of government and a market-driven economy. in fact, these other places consider health care to be a basic human right and can’t understand why so many would oppose the idea of health care for all.
so i guess what i’m saying is that there are so many examples of free and maybe freer people around the world with 100% of citizens having health care coverage that it’s just crazy to think that america is on the road to some totalitarian system because of health care and the only explanation i can see for the degree and method of the republican reaction is opposition politics.
America is not at the center of Bible prophecy — it is never even mentioned as being a player in end-time events! THAT IS THE POINT! The prophetic picture, especially for the second half of the trib when anti-christ takes totalitarian control and God’s direct judgments are pouring down from heaven, is not one of America going on its merry way and holding free elections! America may well be a footnote in world affairs at that time, but it will certainly be under the satanically-inspired control of the AC.
Is the healthcare bill alone enough to take us to that point? Obviously not, and that was not my point.
But it is ridiculous to talk about a “free” people having “government” healthcare. If this legislation become entrenched, it will forever change the dynamics of American politics. It is economically unsustainable (that word is not strong enough — we are $12T in debt already!) and will have chilling effects, long-term, on our overall society that will extend far beyond the possible rationing of care and will impact things like freedom of religion, freedom of speech and freedom to assemble, at least at the edges.
Healthcare is not “a basic human right.” Chris, I am very sorry, but you do not have a basic right to demand that one of your neighbors go to med school and become a doc, then that another neighbor pay your bill with him. Frankly, your comment is tinged with a slant of “social justice”-speak which I find very troubling.
The people who rammed this bill through Congress were trained by communist idealogues and leftist political thugs. That is not hyperbole, that is fact. They do not have your best interests in their sweet little hearts, Chris.
I was using Rush for purely illustrative purposes. If you want cutting-edge, conservative info on this and many other topics from leading Christian thinkers, I suggest you go to www.worldviewtimes.com.
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
Chris sent me a PM pointing out the difference between Canada and the US with respect to healthcare spending. Canada, he says, spent 10.1 % of gdp whereas the US spent 16% or so.
This is really completely irrelevant. There are cost problems in the US system, no doubt about it. You are paying to much, and I believe it is mostly because of litigation and malpractice insurance costs.
The real comparison is how much government is extorting (I mean ‘spending’) from its citizens to pay for health care. Almost all of Canadian spending on healthcare is spent by government. And that represents a huge proportion of our budget. That is what is unsustainable.
This is really completely irrelevant. There are cost problems in the US system, no doubt about it. You are paying to much, and I believe it is mostly because of litigation and malpractice insurance costs.
The real comparison is how much government is extorting (I mean ‘spending’) from its citizens to pay for health care. Almost all of Canadian spending on healthcare is spent by government. And that represents a huge proportion of our budget. That is what is unsustainable.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
From a spiritual standpoint it doesn’t matter. Our God is in control of all things and nothing Barack Obama can do to change that. From a financial health of the USA perspective, this is a big deal. Western and latin countries are crumbling under the weight of their entitlements. The free Asian countries are not far behind. China is ok because they are not a democratic society and can stop the till at any time. India’s growth is sustaining them, but that can only last for so long. Chris and others have a mental block to the reality that the majority can not forever be supported by the minority. Greece, California, and New Jersey are discovering this. No one will lend them any more to pay entitlements. They have hit the wall and the USA as a whole is not far behind
In one way it’s kind of exciting. IF ….the world is in preparation for a major financial collapse that caused large scale wars that led to an end times scenario, should that not make us rejoice that the times are near?
What is more likely is that the middle right independents will sway the next election(s) back toward a moderate position and this mess will be repealed, delayed or modified. Either way, God holds the future. He brought Israel out of Egypt. I am sure he can manage to get his Bride through any trial without any assistance from the spiritual bed-wetters who somehow think pitching a tantrum about this course of events will somehow wake God up from a cosmic nap. Psalm 50:1-3. God is mighty. God sets the agenda. God is not silent. Whom shall we fear?
What is more likely is that the middle right independents will sway the next election(s) back toward a moderate position and this mess will be repealed, delayed or modified. Either way, God holds the future. He brought Israel out of Egypt. I am sure he can manage to get his Bride through any trial without any assistance from the spiritual bed-wetters who somehow think pitching a tantrum about this course of events will somehow wake God up from a cosmic nap. Psalm 50:1-3. God is mighty. God sets the agenda. God is not silent. Whom shall we fear?
Pardon me, but where does the idea that God is a political conservative come from in the first place?
Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura http://healtheland.wordpress.com
Right, and the alarmism in this thread also seems to me baseless.
Discussion