Franklin Graham on impeachment: ‘Our country could begin to unravel’

[Mark_Smith]

GregH wrote:

What I can’t deal with are these Christians like Graham who defend him and in the process become liars and crooked too. It is mindnumbing that Christians have stooped to this.

GregH. see, I reject the claim that Trump is a liar and crooked. Is he perfect? No. Is he more honest than most politicians? Yes.

OK…

No, I’m pretty sure Graham was not in favor of lots of things that went on during the Obama administration. Not in any way relevant to what he should have done about Trump in 2016.

… but that’s really pretty obvious, isn’t it?

I think you are missing the point again. It’s not about whether Trump is right or wrong, good or bad. It’s not about Graham. It’s about the hypocrisy of pretending that Trump is alone in this. You talk about being able to see the damage in 2015 and 2016, and I am merely pointing out that we did see it. It was plain and obvious in many ways, but a lot of people didn’t care, including those who are the most vocal about it now.

This kind of stuff has long gone on and in 2015 and 16 (the dates you mention), it was on clear display. I can’t see any reasonable argument that it is worse now than before. Sure it’s more public because of Trump on Twitter and because of the media who makes a big deal of out everything Trump related. But you think Obama didn’t lie? Or Bush? Or Clinton? They are politicians. Of course they lie. You think they didn’t speak badly of their political opponents? Clinton and Bush were probably better, but Obama was pretty acidic at times. In many respects, I think Obama was worse because it was veiled behind a smarmy kind of decentspeak. Even now, there are people who prefer Obama to Trump. Such a desire is not because of policy or truthtelling on the part of Obama. It is because of perception of presentation.

I am tired of people complaining about “whataboutism” as if it is wrong to point out hypocrisy.

[Mark_Smith]

GregH wrote:

What I can’t deal with are these Christians like Graham who defend him and in the process become liars and crooked too. It is mindnumbing that Christians have stooped to this.

GregH. see, I reject the claim that Trump is a liar and crooked. Is he perfect? No. Is he more honest than most politicians? Yes.

Mark,

I would say that Trump is more of a pathological liar. It doesn’t matter if there is video evidence to prove him wrong, he knows his loyal supporters will defend him no matter what lie he says. The crazy thing is that he lies about the little things that are so obviously not true. Take for example his Trump rally where his supporters chanted “send her back” about Ilhan Omar, Trump lies that he stopped it “by speaking really quickly.” Not at all true! Video evidence shows that there was a pause of 13 seconds before he jumped backed in. In a speech that’s a long time. Or that the American Dollar is the strongest its ever been in the history of our country. False again. The mid-eighties, 1999-2003, and even the very tail end of Obama Presidency into Trump’s early presidency, the dollar was stronger. Or that Democrats “want virtual immunity for illegal aliens who have created horrible crimes and murder.” Just about every Democrat in high office favors policies at the federal, state and local uniformly deny any protections to illegal immigrants who have committed violent crimes or lesser offenses such as burglary. Now if you want to make the argument that Democratic policies may increase the chances that illegal immigrants will commit violence? That’s another issue to discuss, but even Cato Institute studies on immigration has shown that not to be the case. Do Democrats lie and twist the truth about Trump all the time? Absolutely! But lets not pretend that Trump has some moral high ground when it comes to honesty.

Are you comfortable with Trump lying

[Joel Shaffer]

Are you comfortable with Trump lying

I don’t think he is, at least not any more than a political leader normally does.

And what I mean by his honesty is he is telling you flat out what he is doing. Obama, for example (and for the record, I think most politicians do this), tells you you can keep your doctor, your health costs will drop, etc… all while knowing that is not the case, nor is it his intent, or his plan.

Not sure about Trump’s claim about the strength of the dollar, but today a report was released saying unemployment is the lowest in 50 years. As far as presidential claims can go, that is something Trump can truthfully claim.

I agree that Trump is a liar. But, I also agree that I don’t think he lies any more or less than your average politician. And, when you consider again the (cough) truthfulness the Democrats and lefty media dumped on the American public about the Russia investigation and “We Believe Her” accusations against Kavanaugh, I fail again to see why so many people continue to rip Trump on this point. This entire impeachment garbage being pushed by Pelosi is based on lies. (Of course, he makes himself an easy target, but the point still stands.)

To be perfectly accurate, the dollar was strongest before 1913, when it was clearly linked to the value of gold and the Federal Reserve did not yet exist to obscure (and eventually eliminate, with FDR and Nixon’s help), that connection. It was about 24-25 times stronger than today, depending on how you count inflation. Today’s “dollar never stronger” estimates simply measure it against other fiat currencies, which is kinda like taking a micrometer to Jell-O. You can do it, but wash and oil the micrometer afterwards, and I’ll treat your measurements with all the deference they deserve.

To the point of Trump vs. the truth, it’s worth noting that as far as I can tell, the big difference isn’t that Trump lies that much more than anyone else. I remember angrily turning off the radio during both the Bush and Obama administrations quite often because the speakers (both in the White House and from the Capitol on both sides of the aisle) were spouting off nonsense, to put it politely. The difference between Trump and others is that others learned to lie so much more artfully, so that it wasn’t as immediately obvious they were lying.

To that point, again, witness the Democrats rallying around Schiff, who was caught falsifying evidence in a public speech recently. Pelosi basically said it was “truthy”. Note that neither one seems very worried that they induced a fair number of people with security clearances to violate their oaths, and that they likely introduced classified information to a number of people not authorized to see it. Yes, that violates the oaths these Congress-critters swore.

But Trump is the liar we need to be worried about while Pelosi, Schiff, and their minions mount a soft putsch? I’m not getting it.