It’s Not Guns or Mental Illness. The Problem Is Deeper Than That.
“These are empty, numb, detached people slaughtering their fellow humans because they are bored and frustrated with their meaningless lives.” - Matt Walsh
Interesting analysis. He goes “deeper,” but then goes shallower again…
If it is detachment and desensitization causing these attacks, the next question is, what causes the detachment and desensitization? The culprits here are manifold, but the internet has to be one of the first places we look. Though it has of course existed for several decades, the internet has only been ubiquitous for the past two. The rise of social media is even more recent than that. As with any massive societal shift, we will not fully understand its effects until we are a good distance from it. But it’s already fairly clear that our cyber space obsession causes us to be increasingly detached from the physical world and each other. It’s a cliche to point out that our connectedness has made us disconnected, yet there’s truth to most cliches, and this one is no different.
It could be that recent technologies are bringing an underlying meaninglessness more sharply into focus. I don’t personally see how it’s about connectedness or lack thereof. But the ugliness of social media does expose the deeper problems more.
Some of the deeper problems are obvious, but they don’t explain why cultures with the same deeper problems don’t have the same sort of mass violence. The deep problem is mainly that the west mostly abandoned any coherent view of truth or right and wrong and embraced an origin-of-life story that logically requires meaninglessness.
But we don’t see mass shootings everywhere in “the West.” I hate to say it, but it may be that controlling guns is one of the few ways to reduce mass violence in a society that no longer really believes in right and wrong or sees any enduring meaning in life. The drafters of the 2nd amendment certainly didn’t have a profoundly virtue-lacking society like ours in mind when they enshrined the right to be armed. They thought it was a good idea for good people to have guns.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
The Dayton killer used an AR-15 pistol with a 100 round drum magazine (WSJ article this morning). I’m quite sure the framers of the Bill of Rights had that in mind when they drafted the 2nd Amendment …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
The homicide rate in the US has been in a freefall almost from the inception of the country. I can only imagine how worse it might have been back then if they had AR-15s and AK-47s. Remember, these are the days when people thought it was honorable to kill each other in a duel over a slight insult. Imagine how many duels would have been fought here on SI if we sill believed that. Some in Rajesh’s music threads would either be a mass murderer or dead 18 times….
[TylerR]The Dayton killer used an AR-15 pistol with a 100 round drum magazine (WSJ article this morning). I’m quite sure the framers of the Bill of Rights had that in mind when they drafted the 2nd Amendment …
Just like they had religious terrorism and Twitter mobs in view when they drafted the 1st…
Dave Barnhart
When a society gets to the point when mass shootings happen on a too frequent basis, it may be time that we the people (through our representative government) limit the easy availability of the types of firearms most commonly used in these shootings. I own firearms. I value the second amendment. But sadly, our society seems unable to address the issues that keep people from using certain firearms to inflict mass carnage.
A fundamental change has occurred in our culture. Whatever restraints prevented people in the past from going to their local shopping center and blowing people away are no longer in place. We must respond accordingly.
FAIRFAX, Va.– Our deepest sympathies are with the families and victims of these tragedies, as well as the entire communities of El Paso and Dayton. On behalf of our millions of members, we salute the courage of the first responders and others offering their services during this time.
The NRA is committed to the safe and lawful use of firearms by those exercising their Second Amendment freedoms. We will not participate in the politicizing of these tragedies but, as always, we will work in good faith to pursue real solutions that protect us all from people who commit these horrific acts. -NRA
https://home.nra.org/nra-statement-on-texas-ohio-tragedies/
David R. Brumbelow
Churches need to speak out forcefully and aggressively against white nationalist evil, particularly in areas where this toxic ideology flourishes. For what its worth, here is my imprecatory prayer against the two gunmen from church this past Sunday.
For that matter, how many pastors speak out directly and clearly against the moral madness we’re seeing in our society? After considering the cost of not addressing these issues head on, I’m in the middle of a multi-part series on identity, feelings, homosexuality and trangenderism and what true justice is. I’m doing one sermon a month on this series. We plan to begin advertising and pushing back against these destructive, sad ideologies.
In Olympia, WA this isn’t happening. Churches tuck themselves into a shell and don’t touch it. We can’t do that, brothers!
The Gospel is the only vehicle for true recolcilation, purpose and meaning.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
One of the 10 Commandments, that are not supposed to be displayed on public property, just happens to say,
“You Shall Not Murder.” Exodus 20:13 NKJV
Maybe we can post it in our public schools? No, it will not solve all problems and murders, but it could help a little.
I think I’ll put it on our church sign. Maybe it will help someone…
David R. Brumbelow
Worth noting is that in the Founding era, the right to keep and bear arms included cannon, and merchant ships routinely had cannon on board. Also worth noting is that the Mormons took two cannon west with them when my ancestors chased them out of Nauvoo.
I would dare suggest that a cannon loaded with grapeshot or hot shot (to light buildings on fire) would be far more lethal than an AR-15, especially in light of the medical practices of the time. It’s also worth noting that large drum magazines are notorious for jamming—the Army and Marines used stick magazines for their Thompsons for a reason during WWII. We don’t have the play by play from Dayton, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a jam saved a few lives there.
We also need to be aware of the political narrative here. Before the bodies were cold, and before anyone knew squat about the shooters or their weapons, the Democrats were demanding universal background checks and assault weapons bans. It turns out that both shooters passed a Brady check, and when I watched video of the police response in Dayton, most of the officers were holding a pistol, not an assault rifle, as they charged the shooter. The old proverb “act in haste, repent at leisure” comes to mind. The wrong solution can be worse than nothing at all, and let’s remember the worst mass killings in our history did not involve guns. They—9/11, OKC, Bath MI—involved bombs and planes used as projectiles.
I am guessing that as investigators interview the acquaintances of the shooters, what they’re going to find is that a lot of people had clear signs that there was something very wrong with the shooters, but did not take action.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[GregH]The homicide rate in the US has been in a freefall almost from the inception of the country. I can only imagine how worse it might have been back then if they had AR-15s and AK-47s. Remember, these are the days when people thought it was honorable to kill each other in a duel over a slight insult. Imagine how many duels would have been fought here on SI if we sill believed that. Some in Rajesh’s music threads would either be a mass murderer or dead 18 times….
It is really high capacity magazines that are the problem. An AR-15 is just a normal hunting rifle, with a bunch of rails to attach things to.
On a side note, I do not see any reason why a 100 round magazine should be sold. If the shooter did get an AR-15 pistol (i.e. short barrel), that requires an ATF license to purchase and they are not legal to sell without one. The license is expensive, requires a lot of background information and takes 6-12 months to get. I know the news has reported on this shortened barrel, but I am not sure that is what he really had.
Guns is definitely the vehicle these guys are using today. In the 1980’s and 1990’s it was bombs (Unabomber, Oklahoma Federal Building, World Trade Center…). If we only focus on limiting the weapons (which I think is a good idea), we miss the real issue, which is the internet allowing extremism to flourish and us as a society not addressing extremism and mental health issues. Most of these shooters show issues prior to shooting. With the taking away of guns, they will resort to other mechanisms. With the country awash in guns I am not sure if limiting them will have a major impact since almost everyone has one or has access to one in the US.
[dgszweda]It is really high capacity magazines that are the problem. An AR-15 is just a normal hunting rifle, with a bunch of rails to attach things to.
On a side note, I do not see any reason why a 100 round magazine should be sold. If the shooter did get an AR-15 pistol (i.e. short barrel), that requires an ATF license to purchase and they are not legal to sell without one. The license is expensive, requires a lot of background information and takes 6-12 months to get. I know the news has reported on this shortened barrel, but I am not sure that is what he really had.
Guns is definitely the vehicle these guys are using today. In the 1980’s and 1990’s it was bombs (Unabomber, Oklahoma Federal Building, World Trade Center…). If we only focus on limiting the weapons (which I think is a good idea), we miss the real issue, which is the internet allowing extremism to flourish and us as a society not addressing extremism and mental health issues. Most of these shooters show issues prior to shooting. With the taking away of guns, they will resort to other mechanisms. With the country awash in guns I am not sure if limiting them will have a major impact since almost everyone has one or has access to one in the US.
Good reminder. I just ordered 5 more AK mags and 5 more AR mags before they become difficult or impossible to get.
As to AR pistol builds, they can be done without the whole NFA processing if done properly (e.g. no stock, no vertical foregrip, but you can have the short barrel). If the shooter knew what he was doing, he could have done it legally in most states without the extra ATF license, and it would still have been fairly concealable. But that’s beside the point. You’re correct that limiting firearms now will have little effect. Anyone planning to murder people will use whatever they can get hold of, legal or not. He’s not going to care whether a gun is illegal or not if he can get one (and plenty will — it’s only us who want to stay on the right side of the law who won’t be willing to use illegitimate sources). In this particular case, where there’s no confusion as to the actual guilt, he should have a swift trial, and if guilty, execution, his name kept out of the press and his body secretly cremated and disposed of so there is no remembrance, no notoriety, and no pilgrimmages.
I’m not sure what the right way to handle this problem is, but if people think that evil and murder will not flourish if tools are made illegal, they have another (unpleasant) think coming.
Dave Barnhart
….David, guns are what they’re using here, but other nations have mass killings with knives and bombs. China’s mass killings with knives are killing dozens at a time at places like subway stations, and ISIS bombings in Syria and elsewhere do the same. And the Boston Marathon bombing isn’t that long ago, no? You’ve got to look to “what could be” as well as “what is”, economic alternatives and all.
In that light, gun bans, or even large capacity magazine bans, are merely a start to a game of “whack-a-mole” that could end up with the results being even more lethal. The “nice” thing about gun violence is that not only do guns jam, especially with monster magazines, but they also (even with silencers) have an unmistakable sound that allows first responders to know precisely what’s going on. Imagine, for example, if instead of smuggling his rifles into a casino hotel, the Las Vegas shooter had smuggled that weight in a bomb by the stage. Or the Orlando shooter.
Also worth noting is that civilian ownership of guns is banned in Mexico and Venezuela, and murder rates there make Baltimore and St. Louis look safe in comparison.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
[Bert Perry]It’s also worth noting that large drum magazines are notorious for jamming—the Army and Marines used stick magazines for their Thompsons for a reason during WWII. We don’t have the play by play from Dayton, but it wouldn’t surprise me if a jam saved a few lives there.
I haven’t had the drum magazine on my Thompson jam yet, but they are heavy, noisy, unwieldy, and difficult to load (both adding bullets and inserting into the gun) quickly. I’m sure those problems (except for weight) are easy to solve on a modern firearm, but as you point out, stick mags are dead simple, and easy to make fairly large (long) without making them too difficult to conceal.
No matter what type of magazine he used, the police were able in the Dayton case to respond quickly. If the shooter’s weapon jammed, all the better. Personally, I think that if AR mags are hard to get in large sizes, what will happen is that people will just carry multiple pistols if they can’t get illegal magazines. Someone will find a way to kill if they really want to. We have to dig much deeper to solve this issue.
Dave Barnhart
I understand that particular weapon bans will not solve the (heart / mental illness) problem, but banning certain firearms / accessories that have a higher lethality rate may help reduce the mass casualties. Yes, people can shoot canons, build bombs, or stab people, but most people can’t carry a canon into a school, bomb building (I imagine) takes significantly more effort than pulling a trigger, and people have a better chance of running away / defending themselves against a knife attack than an AR-15 attack.
I would not be in favor of a total gun ban, and that would be unconstitutional. But, I am in favor of banning certain types of firearms / accessories and making them less accessible to the general population.
Not saying we should ban guns. Just making observation! America’s culture of outdoors and sportsman recreational hobbies, and the 2nd Amendment, make this unwinnable and impractical from a policy standpoint.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
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