What does Scripture teach about all music without words?

In the Spring of 2018, I taught a 30-hour Bible college class on Acceptable Music for Corporate Worship. Of those 30 hours, more than 20 of those hours were spent directly going through passage after passage throughout all the Bible.

Was this taught at a Bible college? Which one? Are recordings available? Being retired, I have the time to listen and would love to hear them.

Rajesh, what are the specific percussion instruments used at your church? Are there specific percussion instruments that are out of bounds for church?

Rajesh,

You said, in this post, the following:

God directly commands His people many times about what instruments they were to use in worshiping Him. The Law was not the only authoritative revelation that God gave His people. Every command given by God subsequent to the giving of the Law was as much His will for them as anything in the Law was.

When I pushed you on this, you later replied:

These are some of the passages in Scripture that command the use of musical instruments….

Those are NOT the same thing - not even close. You originally stated that God commands the use of certain instruments. That was also the question posed to you by Joe, and Joe circled back to it again a little later so I’m fairly sure we were on the same page. Responding to his questions by listing passages that refer to instruments used in OT worship is not even close to what the original question was.

If you don’t agree with Joe or others, that’s fine. But answer the actual question posed, and not something else.

I’m getting a little annoyed at Rajesh’s insistence that we take into account all the Biblical data. He mentioned a list of passages earlier (26 to be exact, if you include the entire book of Psalms as one unit).

When someone mentioned that they were taking Biblical passages into account, Rajesh got snarky and rude:

“I have found the pure biblical arguments for such unconvincing.” Maybe that is because the arguments that you have heard have not fully treated the biblical data before moving to application, etc.

He then did it again with Tyler:

Sorry, Tyler, answering these questions properly (emphasis in original) would require the detailed exegetical treatment of a vast amount of Scripture. In the Spring of 2018, I taught a 30-hour Bible college class on Acceptable Music for Corporate Worship. Of those 30 hours, more than 20 of those hours were spent directly going through passage after passage throughout all the Bible.

I’ll grant that I don’t have a PhD in New Testament Introduction, but I have very serious and strong reservations about teaching that all the pertinent Scriptures (Rajesh’s words on several occasions) must be taken into account before we can draw any application from it. I don’t think that is generally what we mean when we talk about the perspicuity of Scripture, and it seems as though this “prevent defense” of appealing all possible passages before we can make an application is a dangerous road to go down.

Edit:

One quick correction - the second link that I put up for Joe is wrong. It should point here instead.

Those are all commands that command that musical instruments be used in worshiping God.

Again, that wasn’t the original question, and this is now the third time you’re dodging it. The original question - which is why I linked to Joe’s posts earlier today - is “are specific instruments commanded to be used in worshiping God”.

Original comment:

So then to not use one of the instruments (let’s say a harp since it is cited in Ps. 98:5 and 150:3, among other passages) would also be a sin of omission, correct? That is where your logic inevitably leads us.

[RajeshG] you have no business commenting further on this thread unless you have something to say that pertains directly to the subject of the thread.

“Is RajeshG also among the moderators?”

[Jay]

So then to not use one of the instruments (let’s say a harp since it is cited in Ps. 98:5 and 150:3, among other passages) would also be a sin of omission, correct? That is where your logic inevitably leads us.

From the SI Comment Policy:

Wear your, as they say, big-boy pants. Human interaction is messy—especially where strong opinions are involved. Discussions go far better when participants are slow to take offense. If someone’s a bit prickly, why not just ignore it and stay on topic? Sure, it’s bad to be rude. It’s not much better to be a cry baby.

That logic would be like saying in Ephesians 5:19, we would have to always sing all three types, songs AND hymns AND spiritual songs, in order to be obedient to what God wants us to be singing in out hearts. Is a church in disobedience if they do not have ll three types in each worship service? Does the logic lead us to say we always have to be singing all three each time we sing in out hearts?

I don’t think so, but then again I interpret Ephesians 5:19 as a grouping of three different types of categories (Psalms and/or hymns and/or spiritual songs), not as one cohesive whole. I also don’t think that Paul is saying that every song used must, by necessity, fall into one of those three groupings…just that Christians should be singing those types of songs.

The ESV seems to make that the second of three subpoints under “being filled with the Spirit” (the other two being giving thanks and submitting to one another). Maybe I will look at my GNT a little later to see the exact construction there.

Rajesh,

Yesteday I wrote this:

Three follow up questions:

1) When God gave those commands, were the instruments the Jewish people commanded to use in the worship of the true God, were those same instruments used by their pagan neighbors in the worship of their false gods?

2) Where does God ever directly address musical instruments, genres, tonal patterns, beats, etc, that His people were forbidden to use because they were unacceptable to Him in corporate worship?

3) Do you agree that, at least in the Law of Moses, God never directly forbids any type of musical instruments, tonal patterns syncopation, scales, or genres?

So far, you haven’t answered those three questions. Perhaps you just overlooked them. I am trying to understand what you mean and where you are getting your thinking about music being acceptable or unacceptable in corporate worship. Will you please answer these three questions?

[RajeshG]

Joe Whalen wrote:

So far, you haven’t answered those three questions.

No, I am not going to engage in any more off-topic discussion. You and others can enjoy having a discussion among yourselves on this thread that you and others have successfully hijacked.

Rajesh,

These are three simple questions. The first is a yes or no. Were the instruments used by Israel in the worship of their God the same instruments used by the pagans in their worship of false gods?

The second is very simple. If you know of verses in the revealed Word where God directly addresses any musical instruments, sounds, scales, patterns beats, etc. that His people were forbidden to use, please just list those verses. I really would like to see where He says this.

The third is another yes or no. I said that the Law of Moses never directly forbids any type of musical instruments, tonal patterns, syncopation, genres, etc., and asked if you agreed. That shouldn’t take a whole lot of time. Either you agree w/ me or you don’t.

I asked three simple questions. Two of them are yes/no, the other is just asking for a list of verses that support what you say God says. Please take the time to answer my questions about what you wrote on this thread about music being acceptable or unacceptable to God in corporate worship.

[Ron Bean]

From the SI Comment Policy:

Wear your, as they say, big-boy pants. Human interaction is messy—especially where strong opinions are involved. Discussions go far better when participants are slow to take offense. If someone’s a bit prickly, why not just ignore it and stay on topic? Sure, it’s bad to be rude. It’s not much better to be a cry baby.

*** MODERATOR COMMENT ***

As one of the moderators here, let me also heartily recommend this bit from the comment policy. Let’s dispense with browbeating or the “stop commenting”-type posts on this thread. There certainly may be plenty of ideas about how to stay on the topic of “WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE TEACH ABOUT ALL MUSIC WITHOUT WORDS?,” and I don’t think questions about what the Bible says (or doesn’t say) about instruments or style are out of bounds for that topic, but there’s no need to browbeat when no answers to those questions are forthcoming. Sometimes it’s clear pretty early on when a thread has lost its usefulness. In that case, don’t participate in beating the dead horse, just move on.

That particular feature is almost never included in forum software, and no, we have never looked into obtaining or coding it. The reason is that, while it might improve focus from the point of view of the one who started the thread, it doesn’t generally actually improve conversation. The scenario where someone starts a conversation and only wants those who agree with him to get a chance to be heard is very common (not that I’m accusing you of that—it’s just human nature in general).

To participants in general, if you don’t have something to contribute to the topic, as a Moderator has requested, please do direct your energies to something else.

[RajeshG] Has SI ever had or tried something like what Facebook has where a particular user can block one or more other users from posting on their threads? Some of my threads might have been a lot shorter and much more productive with such a feature.

You could have your own blog and moderate all comments - you’d in in total control

I apologize for my snarkiness. It was an uncalled for response born from decades of negative experience with teachers/pastors who often saw questions as challenges to their authority or aspersions on their character. (Yes, I was kicked of my youth group more than once.) Mea Culpa. No excuse.