When Pastors Place Their Nose Where It Doesn’t Belong
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Several decades ago as Jay Adams and men like him began writing on the topic of biblical counseling, conservative pastors gained a needed and necessary foothold in the area of the psyche (ψυχή), or care for the soul.
For a decade or so before the birth of what was called nouthetic counseling, conservative churchmen were buying the notion that you could not take the pastor anything dealing with the mind because he simply was not qualified. Thankfully, biblical counseling has restored the right appreciation for the pastor’s role of leadership in the area of mental, emotional and spiritual health vs. idea that only secular psychology can help in the various challenges of anthropology.
A few years ago I noted in my book The Pyramid and the Box: The Decision-Making Process in a Local New Testament Church (Wipf & Stock, 2013), that I was seeing a couple of disturbing trends among ecclesiastical leaders, especially from my perspective as Western Coordinator for Institute of Biblical Leadership (IBL). Some pastors are self-deceived that they are something of a mediator of a theocracy, and in their mind, they are Theo!
In other words because they are “the pastor,” not only are they the resident expert in theology (which often is not the case), but they also are the evangelical version of the local village witch doctor. To switch metaphors, they become very much like a surrogate mother, there to guide you through any and all personal decisions.
When leaders begin to view themselves in this manner, this opens the door to no small amount of unrighteous drama in and around the ministry. Not only is there no biblical evidence that a pastor may legitimately be involved in every decision a family makes, but the Scriptures actually provide a variety of prohibitions against this approach.
In 3 John, Diotrephes was one who liked to dominate and would use his personal leverage if the congregant dared to follow a different way. Peter tells leaders in the church to refrain from “lording it over” those entrusted to them.
Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock (NKJV, 1 Pet. 5:2–3)
Jesus had a similar prohibition to His followers in Matthew 20:25-26.
But Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.”
The modern day examples of pastors and other ministry leaders, (like the Christian college professor who has never lived outside of the four walls of his institution) who take it on themselves to be the resident expert on everything, are painful to the point of humorous.
There was the pastor who was sure he had more knowledge than the men in his church with considerable expertise at construction, and so because the pastor took over, his involvement ended up costing the church an extra $300,000 they weren’t planning on.
Then there was the pastor who took it upon himself to inject his ideas on the validity of private parental decisions that had no bearing whatsoever on the couples’ spiritual life or ministry life. When the couple went a different way, the good pastor then responded with the most vitriolic letter one could imagine—all because they dared to do something different than the pastor advised.
Then there was the pastor who knew that it could not be God’s will for so and so to take a raise and promotion because it would mean he would lose the chairman of the deacon board to some other ministry.
Then there was the ministry leader that knew better than a parishioner’s podiatrist! Apparently Pastor John (fictional name) had direct insight into the medical prognosis and treatment even though the good parson had never been to medical school!
The fact that these men (and sometimes women) share their views with parishioners who have asked for advice does not make these leaders weirdos. It is probably even appropriate when a pastor offers his insight on a personal matter once in a while without solicitation. The problem is when you have a leader who has a pattern of being the resident (not to mention arrogant), know-it-all.
What is bizarre is how individuals like these stay in positions of leadership. Even more confusing is how otherwise discerning believers stay in ministries with twisted leaders like these. It may indicate that these families simply aren’t discerning.
If it were biblically consistent for the pastor to be the resident expert on everything you face as a believer, you would expect that he would have all the spiritual gifts and be something a kin to a modern-day prophet. However, if you reject the idea of contemporary apostles, you might consider that a leader that acts this way is simply a confused leader (at best)—or at worst an ecclesiastical goof ball! Be discerning, my friends.
Joel Tetreau 2014 Bio
Joel Tetreau has over twenty years of pastoral ministry experience and presently serves as senior pastor at Southeast Valley Bible Church in Gilbert, AZ and as the Western Coordinator of the Institute of Biblical Leadership. He earned his MDiv at Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary and his DMin at Central Seminary. He is married to Toni and is the father of three sons.
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Good stuff. If I may so so, I’ve never been tempted to dispense foot advice to anybody in Faith Baptist Church …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
What do you say when congregational members are making bad decisions? Where is the line here?
Pastors do have an accountability to the Lord for the spiritual health of those God gives them to shepherd.
There was the pastor who was sure he had more knowledge than the men in his church with considerable expertise at construction, and so because the pastor took over, his involvement ended up costing the church an extra $300,000 they weren’t planning on.
Something similar to this just recently happened at our former church. The pastor took it upon himself to serve as the general contractor (with no prior construction experience) and to bid out work for a sanctuary remodel. When he received all the bids, he told the congregation that the cost for the remodel was going to be around $80K. When he received elder and congregational approval for the $80K remodel, he went back to the contractors to begin the work. He quickly discovered, however, that he didn’t factor in several major items necessary for the contractors to complete the remodel. Consequently, the sanctuary remodel went from $80K to over $200K.
Another situation I’ve encountered are pastors who believe they are CPAs and/or tax attorneys, and who do some crazy things with how the church designates and compensates their employees. I contacted a local CPA on these matters to try to help one pastor, and the pastor rejected the counsel and insisted he knew better because his pastor friends all did the same thing at their churches.
I’m not sure why pastors feel compelled to be the smartest person in the room in these matters.
[Steve Newman]What do you say when congregational members are making bad decisions? Where is the line here?
Pastors do have an accountability to the Lord for the spiritual health of those God gives them to shepherd.
If it’s a matter of sin, you should approach the member. If it’s a matter of preference or a situation where it’s not sin but you strongly disagree with the decision, you should keep your mouth shut unless specifically asked.
Steve, I think a good guiding principle to help draw the (admittedly sometimes fuzzy) line is this: Advise with the best goal in mind.
Best goal: Do we want church members to acquire the skill of asking pastors for help/following pastoral directives or to acquire the skills of thinking things through for themselves (aka biblical wisdom)?
So rather than saying “You should do X” the process is “What do you think will happen if you do x? Have you thought about y? Are there some principles that should guide you in this? What happened last time you dealt with problem A using strategy B?”
Some have overacted to Rogerian non-directive counseling by thinking the alternative is to simply deliver imperatives, but helping people think is not Rogerian. If it’s anything “secular,” it’s Socratic.
But probably it’s Solomonic… Prov. 1:22, 6:9. No… wrong again. It’s Yahwistic!
Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?” So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?” (Ge 3:9–11)
So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” (Ge 4:6–7)
So, going back to the scenarios Joel & others have described… When it isn’t intrusive/overextending authority, it’s just short sighted. We should aim to teach a process for making good choices not simply aim for “the right choice” in a specific situation.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Really appreciate Steve Newman’s question, and I think the answer that flows from Joel’s original post. The pastor needs to work within his realm of authority and expertise, which is to apply the Scriptures to the situation. Is it bad spending? The Bible says something about that. Is it a poor relationship choice? Again, the Bible says something about that.
It gets a lot hairier when it’s a choice of profession (unless we’re talking about pole dancing or dealing drugs or something like that), and there are other gray areas as well, but all in all….you preach the Word.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
I like what I’m hearing so far, especially from Aaron.
I’m pastor of a congregation where a number of the people have come out of drug dealing, pole dancing (or relationships with people who did these things), etc. and still are not making good decisions in many areas just because they have so far to go in growth.
Absolutely, I don’t want to go into areas where not qualified (thought I do have a degree in animal science!), but it is important to help people make better decisions. In cases like this, these young believers need some spiritual “parenting” to move from being milk-drinkers to meat-eaters spiritually. As with physical children, we parent our way out of jobs and help move believers from dependence on leaders to dependence on God. Some of that are what has been described as “making decisions that make decisions for you” in areas like church attendance, etc. It’s too easy to slap the “legalistic” label on these and say I’m trying to run their lives.
The way Aaron put it is more correct - we are trying to teach making better decisions. Part is through wise counsel in areas where we can/should and knowing where we cannot.
For example, we have been ministering to a lady who was diagnosed as schizophrenic and has been on psychotropic drugs for about 30 years. We advised her not to go off medications, but to work within the system to prove her competence. I’m not in the place to tell someone to get off those meds, especially when they have been on them for so many years. Just think what that can do to a person! Yet, I see evidence of growth in understanding and proper spirit in her life.
More input is appreciated.
Friends……
Thx for the comments thus far. Of course this article only reveals part of the story. The article I really want to write deals with odd church attendees that have bizarre ideas and “out-of-this-world” expectations/attempted micro-management for their pastor(s). I knew if I did that article…..I should start off with this one first. Straight Ahead!
jt
Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;
Don’t let other people into your own business!
If we’re not willing to be transparent with those who have watch over us, we’re keeping the pastors from their accountability before God. Plus, a lot of the hypocrisy that is seen in churches has to do with people not being honest about their struggles and pretending they “have it all together”. We have more and more hurting people who need help. Telling them to “grow a backbone” is short-sighted!
If you can help “bear others burdens”, great! But work with those who are helping to keep you accountable!
[Steve Newman]If we’re not willing to be transparent with those who have watch over us, we’re keeping the pastors from their accountability before God. Plus, a lot of the hypocrisy that is seen in churches has to do with people not being honest about their struggles and pretending they “have it all together”. We have more and more hurting people who need help. Telling them to “grow a backbone” is short-sighted!
If you can help “bear others burdens”, great! But work with those who are helping to keep you accountable!
You must subscribe to the view = “everything is my business”!
Reflecting on the title of this thread which is “When Pastors Place Their Nose Where It Doesn’t Belong”
Thank you for some good observations.
The subject is obviously very delicate and complex. Like maybe many of you, I’ve been in the pastoral ministry for 20+ years. With sadness I look back and can see too many cases where believers, or those we thought were, have made total shipwrecks of their lives … often because they would not take simple, Biblical advice.
And then there is the attitude, of we who are under shepherds. Not only Bible knowledge, but compassion and common sense are also important to genuinely help people with their needs. A proud heart will storm ahead without listening, and sometimes without really thinking.
It is natural for people to come to the pastor for advice and direction, even in matters that are not specifically within his realms of expertise. If he is walking with the Lord, he will be able to at least point them in a correct, Biblical direction, while he himself asks for advice from others more experienced than him in whatever area.
At any rate, it’s heart-breaking to see so many who could and should be fruitful instruments for the Lord in church today, but they are not—not even close to being that—because though they asked for advice, they later did their own thing.
Just random thoughts, on a sobering subject …
Andy Bonikowsky
Though it’s impossible to draw a black and white line between what matters are a pastor’s business and what matters are not, it’s a bit like the old “fallacy of beard.” The fallacy of the beard reasons that since it’s impossible to specify how many whiskers are required to constitute a beard, there is no such thing as a beard.
… but we still usually know a beard when we see one.
In the case of “knowing our people’s business” there’s definitely a point at which that knowledge becomes harmful in several ways.
a) It becomes part of a dynamic that discourages personal growth: there is too much dependence on advice rather the skill of exercising wisdom (it’s smothering)
b) It becomes a distraction from what ministry is really about: if we’re preaching and teaching the Word, the further we get from that into personal judgments—or even into highly derivative applications—the further we get from what is really “our business.” (I’m saying “we” and “our” though I’m no longer serving as a pastor… but much of this applies equally well to “one another” ministry)
c) It becomes a seductive over-reach of authority: by degrees, it lures men into increasing exercise of power and influence into areas beyond a pastor’s actual “sphere.” Again, though it’s impossible to get the boundary into black and white, the warnings against “lording it over” clearly mean there is a line that should not be crossed.
One way to tell if we’re going beyond legitimate pastoral guidance is how we react when advice is rejected. If it’s a matter of obedience to Scripture, our attitude has to be that of the loving shepherd who hopes to see the wandered return. So there is no place for anger or taking personal offense.
On the other hand, if it’s a matter of personal friendly advice, our attitude has to be understanding that there are different ways to weigh the options and we might well be wrong… again, no cause for wrath or personal rejection.
So where there is anger… something has gone wrong.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
It strikes me, writing as someone who’s never been vocational in ministry, that a great part of ministry really is having one’s ear to the ground and being able to interact on the level where people are. Not that one ought to attempt to always be a buttinski, but there are times one should see something’s up and reach out in love.
One other thought is that while certainly something is wrong when our emotions are ruling us and we’re sinning in that way, I wouldn’t be surprised if the confrontations between Peter and Ananias and Sapphira, like that between Nathan and David, did involve some emotion of anger. Insisting on “veins of ice” when confronting willful sin is probably not practicable.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Definitely not “I do my counseling from the pulpit” either! Can’t tell you how many times I have heard that from pastors.
How do you propose that a pastor is to be accountable if he doesn’t take the trouble to do so?
The fact is that many congregations don’t want an accountable pastor. They would rather he bug out of all their business, and that is not right either.
Discussion