A Godless Fundamentalist: Introduction

Replace “Fundamentalist” with “Evangelical”, and the comments could be the same. The issue is not Fundamentalist or Evangelical being “bad” but the clash of Biblical Christianity with an attractive world and the struggle/conflict many young Christians have with that attractive world..

I agree. Well said

I don’t disagree with your first sentence. But, I grew up in fundamentalism not evangelicalism, and I’m writing about my experience.

I don’t necessarily disagree with your second sentence either. Although, I’m curious what you mean by “attractive.” For example, and further posts will hopefully flesh this out, what originally (and kept) attracting me to the “world” wasn’t so much the pleasures of sin (although, to be honest, that didn’t hurt), but the fact that the world appeared to be far more willing to endure and even engage my questions and doubts. I realize now that was a lie of the devil. But the way I was raised, which, frankly, was the norm for my generation in fundamentalism, doubts and questions appeared to automatically place you outside the camp. In fact, I learned pretty early on (as did others), that the quickest way to a hassled and harried existence was to express doubts and questions about what the adults were saying. The “world” was more than happy to come along and pretend to offer a sympathetic ear. I was lied to, I know that. But the structure of IFBism of the 80s through the early 90s, at least, was such that I didn’t feel like I had a friendly adult within the church or my Christian school that I could turn to with my doubts, questions, and fears.

The first “adult” that seemed to actually listen and care about my questions and concerns was a drug addled co-worker when I was in high school. Sadly, over the last few years, I’ve learned that my experience was the norm and not the exception.

You wrote:

In fact, I learned pretty early on (as did others), that the quickest way to a hassled and harried existence was to express doubts and questions about what the adults were saying. The “world” was more than happy to come along and pretend to offer a sympathetic ear. I was lied to, I know that. But the structure of IFBism of the 80s through the early 90s, at least, was such that I didn’t feel like I had a friendly adult within the church or my Christian school that I could turn to with my doubts, questions, and fears.

That is a very sad thing. But, I absolutely believe it. You can’t fix stupidity and bad leadership. This problem isn’t restricted to fundamentalism, to be sure. But, wherever we find it, we should be ashamed, and root it out.

I’ll add an amen to John and Tyler’s comments. The fundamentalism of most of my life was intolerant of questions, especially those beginning with “why”. Add to that the ridiculousness of some of the answers that were offered such as Pinocchio was a sinful movie because Jiminy Cricket was pretending to be Jesus Christ and that Cinderella promoted witchcraft.

BTW, I’ll attest that John is a bon fide fundamentalist today.

Usually get it.

My experience of fundamentalism is filled with encouragement, opportunity, countless selfless individuals desiring to please God. One’s take on the matter depends on what is in one’s heart to start with.

But the problem (and the truth) is that all of us who grew up in fundamentalism began our existence with hearts that were dead in sin. And by “all of us,” I do mean ALL.

I’m not looking for a fight. I understand that you may never see nor acknowledge that. And I’m sorry for that, brother. I wish that there were a way around that, but since there’s probably not, I’m going to leave it at that. People can make up their own mind, based on the entire context of my writing history, whether or not I’m trying to pick a fight or to throw fundamentalism under the bus.

I’m commenting on the comments, yours and others. “Fundamentalism was full of bitter mean legalists” etc, the usual drill.

All I’m saying is that the experience you and others are relating was the experience of someone with a chip on his shoulder at the time. No doubt mistakes were made as various ones interacted with you and others. I think you said you, in particular, weren’t in a good spiritual state when you were growing up in fundamentalism. How much of the resistance to your questioning falls on you and your attitude at the time?

If you are pushing against something, don’t be surprised if it pushes back.

My experience in the same system is positive. (Doesn’t mean there weren’t mistakes made.)

Don, brother, you and I don’t really disagree. So, not only do I not want to argue, I don’t really understand what I’m supposed to be arguing about.

I don’t believe that fundamentalism is or was ever filled with bitter mean legalists. I never believed that. There was never a moment during my life when I didn’t realize that my parents, teachers, and other authority figures were motivated by genuine love and concern for me. I have constantly fought back against those who claim otherwise.

And, Don, you have absolutely nothing to base your accusation that I have or ever had a chip on my shoulder in relation to fundamentalism. And I’ve never not taken responsibility for my sins and rebellion. Even during my most “obvious” rebellion, I never blamed my parents; I never looked at fundamentalism and said, “You did this to me!”

But, and I’m afraid that you will not accept this, I am in a unique position to provide some commentary on what happened within the fundamentalist Christian school movement during the 80s and 90s.

And, Don, please stop with the condescending “If you’re pushing against something, don’t be surprised if it pushes back” nonsense. No where have I expressed surprise at your comment. In fact, when I realized that Jim had posted this, my first thought was (literally, my first thought), “I wonder how Don is going to spin this and paint me as angry and vindictive?” Push back all you want, all I ask is for you to not put quotes in my mouth and motives in my heart.

But the way I was raised, which, frankly, was the norm for my generation in fundamentalism, doubts and questions appeared to automatically place you outside the camp. In fact, I learned pretty early on (as did others), that the quickest way to a hassled and harried existence was to express doubts and questions about what the adults were saying. The “world” was more than happy to come along and pretend to offer a sympathetic ear. I was lied to, I know that. But the structure of IFBism of the 80s through the early 90s, at least, was such that I didn’t feel like I had a friendly adult within the church or my Christian school that I could turn to with my doubts, questions, and fears.

Others have been only too eager to chime in.

You are using your limited experience, colored by your own attitude at the time (according to your own testimony) to pontificate on “the IFBism of the 80s through the early 90s”

So what else should I conclude?

….to the next edition. Can I hope it’ll be cross posted here?

To a bit of the discussion, I’m currently on a search committee for a new youth pastor, and one of the things I desperately want to see is a gentleman who will, per John’s comments, be able to interact lovingly with the doubts of those under his care. I also want someone who can, intellectually, go toe to toe with the smarter kids—keep in mind that in Rochester, MN, we have a lot of people with earned doctorates for obvious reasons. (Mayo)

And along those lines, one of the most concerning things I see in fundagelicalism is that too many Bible colleges teach people what to think more than how to think, and sadly, it’s been very clear as we interview them. Questions that wouldn’t faze a mid-level professional in the secular world just flummox them. It’s not that they’re not smart people, but they simply haven’t been in an arena where it’s safe to disagree without getting the “right boot of fellowship”.

My 12 yo daughter has some of the same questions about God that I did when I was a kid (even younger than her). By God’s grace, and in large part because she’s heard me tell my story, she’s come to my wife and I with her questions and doubts. Even last night, we had a fruitful, Lord willing, conversation with her about holiness; about why our family has certain rules. By God’s grace and in His kindness, her Sunday School teachers are very good (better than I am) at lovingly and truthfully engaging her questions.

I pray that God will be pleased to bless your desire and that your church family will enjoy the fruit God brings out of your faithful desire to honor 1 Peter 3:15.

John,

I am so glad that you have come to a genuine conversion in Christ. I recall Abraham Piper’s story of a late conversion experience in his twenties. His own father had to discipline him out of Bethlehem Baptist. I recall Mark Dever openly lamenting about his one daughter who turned away from the faith. This kind of thing crosses many ecclesiastical lines. Even if Fundamentalism had been perfect, you would still have people rejecting the faith of their church and parents. Fundamentalism has had its faults. In my opinion three of the most serious faults have been King James Onlyism and ignorant Arminianism. I say ignorant because they didn’t even know they were Arminian. The third fault was rampant easy-believe-ism, particularly in the Hyle’s camp, but it was not restricted only to that camp. Also, for a time Fundamentalism had a jaundiced eye toward a good seminary education. It was plagued by an anti-intellectualism which spawned other problems. In my opinion that kind of Fundamentalism is dangerously wrong. I am with Kevin Bauder for a “Fundamentalism Worth Saving”. I think he assessed the situation quite well. One suggestion for your article is to change the title. It came across too harsh and a little misleading to me.

Title’s excellent; he’s describing himself, not the movement.