Half of Gen Z says Trump support keeps them out of church

Not too surprising. The vast majority of white evangelical Christians still support Trump and up to 40% of these same Christians think he is acting ethically in office. The younger people see through this. Since probably 7 out of 10 church members in your pews support Trump from a statistical perspective, even though you may not preach it from the pulpit, it is still pervasive within your church. It most likely comes up during Small Group, Sunday School, Men's prayer breakfast, so on and so on. People who are most likely less savvy in engaging people, probably blurt things out that offend many of those who are not supporters of Trump. Or they hear it so often, that they don't feel that they can align with anyone at the church and so they avoid the church, or seek one that is more progressive. This will be another challenge as we try to engage a culture that doesn't look like us.

dgszweda wrote: Since probably 7 out of 10 church members in your pews support Trump from a statistical perspective, even though you may not preach it from the pulpit, it is still pervasive within your church.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “pervasive.” Personal views, sure, I might go along with that. I haven’t done a formal poll or anything, but from personal conversations with other members, I’d guess your 7/10 is not that far off for my church, although a large percentage of those I would peg as reluctant Trump supporters rather than wholehearted. However, Trump is not only NOT preached from the pulpit, I’ve never heard him preached in SS, small groups, prayer meeting, etc. In other words, sure, the members might support Trump (at least much more than Biden/Clinton/Obama), but young believers are not going to hear about that in any official way. If they are offended by hearing that from personal conversations, then they are not likely to want a church like ours anyway.

I don’t know many church-going Democrats. The ones that I have met, however, at least in the years since Obama, almost always tend to go to the churches where they have women and/or gay preachers, or rainbow flags, support abortion clinics, etc., etc. We have plenty of churches like that in our area, so people are welcome to go there if they don’t want a church like ours that believes the Bible and has strong expositional preaching. However, I have met a number of younger families in my neighborhood (probably Millenial more than Gen Z), and I’m often surprised to hear that they not only go to church, they go to churches that are fairly solid (with pretty good preaching), if not what I would want worship-wise or association-wise.

If the members’ personal beliefs are what is keeping Gen Z seekers out of the church, I’m not sure what you think the solution is. Giving up our personal principles is certainly not on the table, particularly when most of those are based on scripture (which would include most of the issues people place under the “woke” category). If we don’t hold our own beliefs strongly enough to cause us to exercise our right to vote, and affect who we vote for, then I think we won’t likely hold up biblical beliefs any more strongly. We don’t have to like the representatives we have in office, or live like them, but most of us have good reasons for the way we voted, and deciding we are going to present ourselves as “apolitical” to enable more young people to comfortably come to our church is likely to also be seen as fake or hypocritical. I don’t think that will help in the long term either.

”The Billy Graham Center Research Institute fielded a survey of 2,365 Gen Z adults (ages 18-28) through NORC’s AmeriSpeak panel between Aug. 9 and Sept. 26, 2024.”

Am I reading this correctly? This data is from 2024? That would put it in the heat of the 2024 election.

"Personal views, sure, I might go along with that."

Yes. I am sure some churches preach Republican. I have seen many fundamentalist churches that have the American flag at the front of their church, and have heard others mention, "If you aren't voting for Trump you are not a Christian". Is that common? Who knows. My perspective is not so much the formal, but the informal. What I have typically seen is some of the members congregating around their chairs or table before Sunday School and someone mentioning, "Hey did you see they caught those criminals that vandalized the Reflecting Pool? I hope they get 10 years, can't believe anyone would vandalize this kind of stuff." It is not overtly Trumpian, but it points to the fact that 1) the individual is taking the Trump line and 2) they must not be too bright. And so the GenZ person, says, " this place is full of crazies!" Given where the Republican party is going, don't be surprised that there are probably more Democrats than you realize. They may not be overt Democrats, but they probably voted Democrat.

My current church does not display flags at the front, but my last church had an American flag on one side, and a Christian flag on the other. I was at that church about 20 years, and the flags were there the whole time. If we got any negative comments about that, I never heard them. There is nothing “Republican” coded about an American flag, Sunny Hostin’s comments on The View notwithstanding.

Now, I do understand the arguments for and against having a national flag in the front of a church, as the church is for the eventual true Kingdom, not for a particular nation. I don’t have a strong opinion on this argument either way, so I’ve never been offended seeing an American flag in the church, nor questioned the members’ patriotism if one isn’t there. However if Gen Z attenders find display of a national flag so offensive that it would prevent them attending, that’s pretty much on them, IMHO, and maybe it would behoove them to ask about it rather than just assume that display of an American flag == Crazy MAGA.

Finally, you are correct that there could be more “closet” Democrat voters in the church than I think. I have yet to start a conversation in church (or see someone else start one) by asking about political party affiliation. That’s one of those things that isn’t that important in the church. Of course, it could come up at some point if you know someone long enough, but to my knowledge, while I have been at my current church about 3.5 years now, I don’t think I have ever been asked or answered that question (and I’m an independent, so I’m ready to get shot at by both sides). Have I had political conversations before or after church occasionally? Sure, but they have been on the substance of a topic, not something like you said “If you vote X, you can’t be a Christian.” I’m sure some people would say something like that even to people they don’t know well, but thankfully, I haven’t really run into it much lately.

Not sure how old you are Dave, but a Christian flag in a church, especially on either side of the pulpit, has become a symbol of Christian Nationalism for many including the younger generation (Worshiping with the US Flag). While it may not have had the symbolism back in the 70's and 80's when they were becoming more prominent, they are dogwhistles to something more sinister for many (Civil Religion has no place in God's House). I focus on this from your previous response, because there is younger generation that views certain things with more skepticism that the older generation is clueless on. For example, you felt there was nothing "coded" about the flag. I will tell you flat out (as well as articulated in the articles above) that the flag is "coded" to the younger generation. It is the fact that the two generations do not understand each other, that creates the problem. The younger generation is not looking at what is preached in the pulpit, but the signs of something else lurking (a dog whistle) and the older generation is oblivious to these.

The “Civil Religion has no place in God’s House” article you posted the link to may have been the wrong one, as I see no conclusions about American symbols being “dogwhistles to something more sinister.” The author doesn’t really say much at all about the display of the flag, though he does say “I just don’t think the symbols of the American nation have a place in the embassy of the kingdom of God.”

Separately, he does disagree with the idea of saying Pledge of Allegiance or having a colors ceremony as part of a church service. While such was common in churches as I was growing up (and I’m 63, so yeah, old), I haven’t seen it much in years, and I’ve gotten uncomfortable with having those in a church as well as I have aged and changed in my understanding of the scriptures. That’s still a different level from a static display of the flag on a platform.

I haven’t finished digesting the first article you posted, but interestingly, it notes, among other things that “beliefs about the Bible are unrelated to attending a congregation where the flag is displayed. Unlike our bivariate findings, political conservatives are no different from moderates or liberals in the likelihood of worshipping with the U.S. flag”. It also hypothesized that “Evangelical Protestants will be more likely than persons in other Christian and non-Christian religious traditions to worship with the flag,” but instead found “it seems to be Mainline Protestants foremost and then Evangelicals that worship with the flag.”

The article did make the claim that “People who belong to a congregation where the U.S. flag is displayed will express stronger agreement with Christian nationalist beliefs than people in congregations without the U.S. flag,” and claimed that their data supported this claim, but admitted that “Worshipping with the flag is not limited to theologically conservative or politically conservative Americans.” Further, they note “A major limitation of our study is the inability to test causation. With cross-sectional survey data, we cannot definitively determine if people with Christian nationalist beliefs self-select into congregations where the flag is displayed or if the display of the flag primes or socializes parishioners to embrace Christian nationalism. Another possibility is that people supportive of Christian nationalism are more aware of the U.S. flag in their place of worship, whereas less politically oriented worshippers may be less attentive to the flag’s presence in their worship space.” I would tend to agree with that last possibility.

As for the young and their view of the flag being “coded” to being Republican for them rather than being American, even if the young see it that way, I put about as much stock in that as them seeing the “OK” hand sign and thinking it means “white supremacism” simply because the sign has been used by supremacists. Many supremacists use the U.S. flag too, but that doesn’t change its actual meaning, even if some perceive it so.

Assuming it’s just my generation that is “clueless” about the way things really are, I still don’t see this gives me a good plan on what to do. You are essentially saying that my generation needs to look at the way the young see things, throw away everything they see as negative, and then maybe, just maybe, we might be able to reach the young. Yeah, sorry. Some truths are timeless no matter how some want to twist them.

I came to a church in rural Ohio that used to have both flags (Christian and American) displayed on the platform of our worship center. One of our elders is a retired, proud Marine. We have several older men in our church who served in the Armed Forces.

At some point before I got here, the flags were moved to the back of the room. That's where they were when my wife and I arrived. About two years into my pastorate, someone moved the flags into a storage area behind our platform. Someone else took note and informed the retired Marine elder. He decided enough was enough and had them placed front and center on the platform without talking to the rest of the elders.

This move spurred a discussion within our elder team. I am not in favor of displaying the flags on the platform; the retired Marine elder was definitely advocating for it; and the other two elders were generally in favor of keeping the American flag on the platform but were fine with removing the Christian flag. So, currently, we have the American flag off to the side of the platform in our worship center.

The decision to display the American flag was primarily meant to recognize God's grace and goodness to us in giving us the religious freedoms we enjoy as Americans through the sacrifice of our veterans. It was not meant to promote Christian nationalism or to advocate civil religion. If that were the intent behind it, our other two elders would not have agreed to display the flag.

T Howard wrote: The decision to display the American flag was primarily meant to recognize God’s grace and goodness to us in giving us the religious freedoms we enjoy as Americans through the sacrifice of our veterans. It was not meant to promote Christian nationalism or to advocate civil religion. If that were the intent behind it, our other two elders would not have agreed to display the flag.

This is the way I see displaying the American flag on the platform as well. But as I said above, I’m OK with not displaying it either, given the church isn’t about our nation. I generally wouldn’t think it an issue worth causing division over. However, if anyone was claiming that display of the flag could only mean we support Christian nationalism, I’m ornery enough to then be FOR displaying it, just so they could get their knickers in a twist…

"The decision to display the American flag was primarily meant to recognize God's grace and goodness to us in giving us the religious freedoms we enjoy as Americans through the sacrifice of our veterans."

Actually the decision to display the American flag was to placate the elder who was a Marine. Seemed like it was heading out the back door before he got angry about it.

Slice it how you want, the younger generation does not want to see an American flag next to the pulpit. Again, this is just one example of concerns that the younger generation has. I doubt you can provide an example of a young person really wanting the American flag on the pulpit and advocating for its introduction into the service decor.

dgszweda wrote: Slice it how you want, the younger generation does not want to see an American flag next to the pulpit. Again, this is just one example of concerns that the younger generation has. I doubt you can provide an example of a young person really wanting the American flag on the pulpit and advocating for its introduction into the service decor.

You can probably find one or two. Depends on the church. I would guess that most in the younger generation would feel this way, but all? Probably not.

I tend to agree with the viewpoint, but then I'm a Canuck and I would, wouldn't I?

Don,

Just out of curiosity, was there ever a time in your memory when churches in Canada displayed the national flag on the platform, or is that pretty much a “south of the border” thing?

dgszweda wrote: Slice it how you want, the younger generation does not want to see an American flag next to the pulpit. Again, this is just one example of concerns that the younger generation has. I doubt you can provide an example of a young person really wanting the American flag on the pulpit and advocating for its introduction into the service decor.

We would not and do not place the flag next to the pulpit. If you're facing the pulpit, the flag is positioned on the far left of the platform. Further, we do not recite the pledge of allegiance or have patriotic music / services.

Our retired Marine elder will on occasion make comments about our country during our service welcome / announcement time or during his prayer. Sometimes what he says is questionable. Recently, during one of his prayers, he said, "And we know Father that there are two countries that you have specifically blessed: Israel and the United States."

But, he didn't say that because he's a Christian nationalist. He said that because he is a dispensationalist and a proud Marine. :)

dcbii wrote: Just out of curiosity, was there ever a time in your memory when churches in Canada displayed the national flag on the platform, or is that pretty much a “south of the border” thing?

My breadth of experiences in Canada is not as extensive as the USA, so my knowledge is highly selective here. As far as I can recall, I've never been in a church in Canada that displayed a flag of any kind in its auditorium.

Some years ago, a friend of mine was with me and several other missionaries at a lunch table. My friend was an American serving in another part of Canada and he mentioned a week at camp where they would "salute the flag" and sing O Canada at the start of the day. A lady who was a missionary to Brazil asked me what I thought of that. My reply: "It would never occur to me to do that."

We just look at patriotism differently here, it isn't that we aren't patriotic, but we don't make it part of religion.

T Howard wrote: But, he didn't say that because he's a Christian nationalist. He said that because he is a dispensationalist and a proud Marine. :)

You may believe that, because you may have history or tenure with his behavior within the church and his mindset. If a young person were to visit the church and to hear that prayer for the first time, they would tag the church as a Christian Nationalist church, because from the pulpit they are stating that the US is a special blessed nation by God, which is one of the very core tenants of Christian Nationalism. They would further see the flags at the front of the church auditorium and further tag this as a dog whistle for the kind of theology the church is based on. Doesn't matter if it is truly the theology or not. They have no long term history with the church, they just see the clear warning signs that are tags, and they never come back.