2 Peter 3:9

dan wrote:

My view of 2 Peter 3:8-9 is that it means God is longsuffering toward us (humans), not willing that any should perish.

2 Peter 1:1 NKJV wrote:

Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

When you come across the words "you" and/or "us" in the book, it refers to Peter and those who "have obtained like precious faith."

He begins chapter 3 with the word "beloved," which clearly refers to believers.

2 Peter 3:8-9 wrote:

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Notice in v.9 that God's longsuffering is toward "us" which, following the theme of the book, refers to believers. It is in this context that Peter speaks of God being not willing that any (of us) should perish. The reason Peter gives for the delay of the promise of the Lord's coming is his long suffering toward the beloved.

I believe that your extending of the long suffering to "humans" (all men without exception), fails to keep that phrase in it's proper context.

http://www.scionofzion.com/2_peter_3_9.htm 2 Peter 3:9 by Ken Matto:

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So the long suffering of God means He patiently waits for the redemption of all those who were named in the Lamb’s Book of Life before the foundation of the world and have yet come into physical existence according to His time table.

John Gill on 2 Peter 3:9 from the http://thelightheartedcalvinist.com/2010/09/23/john-gill-on-2-peter-39 ]Lighthearted Calvinist :

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...since it appears to be the will of God, that not one of those he has chosen in Christ, given to him, and for whom he died, shall ever perish; and, inasmuch as evangelical repentance is necessary for them, and they cannot come at it of themselves, he freely bestows it on them, and, by his unfrustrable grace, works it in them; and, until this is done unto and upon every one of them, he keeps the world in being, which is reserved unto fire, against the day of judgment, and perdition of ungodly men.

John Calvin from his commentary, posted at http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom45.vii.iv.iii.html CCEL :

Calvin sees the "any" as all mankind!

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Not willing that any should perish. So wonderful is his love towards mankind, that he would have them all to be saved, and is of his own self prepared to bestow salvation on the lost. But the order is to be noticed, that God is ready to receive all to repentance, so that none may perish; for in these words the way and manner of obtaining salvation is pointed out. Every one of us, therefore, who is desirous of salvation, must learn to enter in by this way.

But it may be asked, If God wishes none to perish, why is it that so many do perish? To this my answer is, that no mention is here made of the hidden purpose of God, according to which the reprobate are doomed to their own ruin, but only of his will as made known to us in the gospel. For God there stretches forth his hand without a difference to all, but lays hold only of those, to lead them to himself, whom he has chosen before the foundation of the world.

Looking at 2 Peter 3:9 in the greater context of both his epistles.

In 2 Peter 3:1 he writes:

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Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle

He’s writing a 2nd time to the same people he previously wrote to. If we look at the recipients of the 1st epistle that will inform us as to whom this epistle is addressed to.

In 1 Peter 1:1-2 he begins by identifying himself and his recipients:

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[sup ]1[/sup ] Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, [sup ]2[/sup ] elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

We see that he is writing to pilgrims who are elect according to the foreknowledge of God (at this point it doesn’t matter whether one holds to the unconditional or the conditional view of election).

Throughout this letter he uses the pronouns you and us, which refer to this group of elect pilgrims.

1 Peter 1:3-4 wrote:

[sup ]3[/sup ] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [sup ]4[/sup ] to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

1 Peter 1:20 wrote:

He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you

In 1 Peter 2:1-3 he gives instructions to some individual or group:

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[sup ]1[/sup ] Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, [sup ]2[/sup ] as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby, [sup ]3 [/sup ]if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Verse 1 doesn’t tell us specifically who is to obey these instructions, but v.2 informs us that it is you, these same elect pilgrims. Clearly this command is not to the unregenerate, it is only to those who are believers.

In 1 Peter 2:7 we have another group of people introduced – the disobedient:

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Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

In 1 Peter 2:18-25 we have another group identified – servants, but the command Peter gives to them is based on them being a subset of the elect pilgrim group:

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[sup ]18[/sup ] Servants, be submissive to your masters with all fear,…
[sup ]21[/sup ] For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,…

In 1 Peter 3, the apostle singles out 2 additional groups – wives and husbands. Here again his instructions to them are based on them being of the elect pilgrim group.

In 1 Peter 3:18 he gives the reason to endure the suffering that is the result of their righteous living:

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For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

In chapter 4, Peter continues his encouragement to the elect pilgrims, and in chapter 5, he gives some final encouragement to the elect pilgrims.

Nowhere in this first letter does Peter speak to the non-believers. He gives them no promises, he offers no blessings, and he commands nothing of them. He refers to them in the first few verses of chapter 4 by showing that they face judgment.

Since this letter is included in the Scripture, we understand that the instructions and encouragement are not for these initial recipients solely, but are for the elect pilgrims of all times and in all places.

As I noted in Post 1 of this thread, Peter’s 2nd letter begins by addressing those “who have obtained like precious faith with us.” These are the elect pilgrims of chapter 1, as 2 Peter 3:1 shows.

Dan wrote:

So "us" in verse 1 does not even include the recipients of the letter.

So, "us" in 3:9 can not be restricted in meaning to the same "us" in 1:1.

Let me take a slight detour here to reference the omniscience of God. For those who affirm this doctrine, a necessary corollary is that the number of the elect is fixed, as is the number of the non-elect. Here again it does not matter whether one holds to an unconditional or conditional view of election. There are only 2 columns of people and there can be no movement between those columns.

So even though you (Dan) may be right in noting that there cannot be a restriction in 3:9, you still cannot extend the us to include the non-elect, as they can never become elect.

There are countless numbers of elect pilgrims who have come to salvation in the 1900 years since Peter wrote. All of those, ourselves included, “have obtained like precious faith,” with Peter and these elect pilgrims. The non-elect cannot obtain “like precious faith!”

In 2 Peter 1:4, the apostle includes the obtained-like-precious-faith people in the elect pilgrim group.

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by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

This verse can only refer to the elect – there are no “great and precious promises” for the non-elect! The rest of this chapter is encouragement for believers

Chapter 2 is about false teachers and their doom. Peter’s harshest words are saved for this group.

Then we come to chapter 3 and the encouragement of verses 8-9

2 Peter 3:8-9 wrote:

[sup ]8[/sup ] But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [sup ]9[/sup ] The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The question here is, to whom do the words all and any refer?

The answer can be found by determining whom the preceding us refers to! The any and all are any of us, and all of us.

It cannot be all-men-without-exception because the non-elect cannot come to repentance. They cannot move from the non-elect column to the elect column because to admit that possibility requires an abandonment of the doctrine of the omniscience of God.

In 2 Peter 3:14-15 we again see Peter refer to the Lord’s longsuffering as encouragement to believers.

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[sup ]4[/sup ] Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; [sup ]15[/sup ] and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation – as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,

In neither of Peter’s letters are there any promises made to the non-elect. To insist that 2 words, out of all that he wrote, must include the non-elect, when he is specifically writing to the elect is to go beyond the apostle's intent.

Jeff Peterson at http://thelightheartedcalvinist.com/2011/07/09/2-peter-39-excerpt-from-a... ]The Lighthearted Calvinist

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As the promise pertains to the return of the Lord Jesus for His own, if there appears to be a delay from the Lord, it is only because not all the elect have been preached to so that they may be quickened to the gospel call.

John Samson at http://effectualgrace.com/2010/11/23/understanding-2-peter-39 ]Effectual Grace

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So, the question in 2 Peter 3:9 is whether “all” refers to all human beings without distinction, or whether it refers to everyone within a certain group.

Christ’s second coming has been delayed so that all the elect can be gathered in. God is not willing that any of the elect should perish, but that all of them come to repentance. Rather than denying election, the verse, understood in its biblical context, is one of the strongest verses in favor of it.

http://www.albatrus.org/english/universalistic/universalistic_passages/2... Albatrus.org provides quotes from a number of writers: Boettner, Sproul, Pink, Owen.

Owen from Death of Death... wrote:

Will not common sense teach us that us is to be repeated in both the following clauses, to make them up complete and full, - namely, "Not willing that any of us should perish, but that all of us should come to repentance?"

from http://www.pbministries.org/Landmark_Baptist/Seminary/Bible_Study_Course... John Gill’s Commentary

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...a society or company of men are designed, to which the apostle himself belonged, and of which he was a part; and who are described, in his epistles, as the elect of God, called out of darkness, into marvelous light, and having obtained like precious faith with the apostles;

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1. For what reason does God need to be patient with the recipients of Peter’s second epistle (unless they have fallen into sin and are in danger of apostasy)?

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2. Why say God is not willing (“desiring”; “wishing”) that they perish if they are already saved and secured by God’s power for salvation?

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3. Why is God waiting for them to repent? Are the recipients of this letter “elect” persons who refuse to repent at the time of the r3.eading of this epistle?

Romans 10:14-15, NKJV wrote:

[sup ]14[/sup ] How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? [sup ]15[/sup ] And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “ How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

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3. However, this is not to say that the “elect” are not the primary referent. It is to say that to limit the “you”, “any”, and “all” to the “elect” is indefensible.

Further, if God is waiting for all-men-without-exception to come to repentance, the verse would not need the words towards us, but the inclusion of that phrase creates the limit. Also, since all-men-without-exception will not come to repentance, why has Christ not already returned. Each day that Christ delays His coming, more people are born who will ultimately go to their death and ultimate judgement as unbelievers.

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Repentance can only be demanded in relation to sin, both of the believers who falls into sin and the unbelievers living in sin. It is directed to believers, not as “elect” but as having fallen into sin; and to the unbeliever, not as being of the number of the “elect”, but as one who is unbelieving and lost in sin.

Acts 17:30. NKJV wrote:

Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

In this passage you have an ellipsis in the Greek, and also in the English.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ellipsis ]Dictionary.com defines ellipsis thusly:

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the omission of one or more items from a construction in order to avoid repeating the identical or equivalent items that are in a preceding or following construction, as the omission of been to Paris from the second clause of I've been to Paris, but they haven't.

2 Peter 3:9 could have been written this way:

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The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any of us should perish but that all of us should come to repentance.

Both of the of us phrases have been left out because the context supplies them.