Why I Walked Away from Evangelicalism
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As one who has traversed nearly the same path — only going the other direction — there is much I could say. I can’t possibly take time to dissect these articles, but it would be fun to talk with this guy. There is probably an awful lot we agree on.
For me, the road from Lutheranism (WELS) to Evangelicalism (BTW, in Europe these are synonyms) and Fundamentalism involved a “bridge,” if you will — the media preaching of two Presbyterians, namely D. James Kennedy and Bruce Dunn. (Dunn was also a strong dispensationalist.)
I felt like I had taken the road “full circle” when I took theology in seminary from Dr. Myron Houghton — who has his Th.D. from Concordia Seminary (LC-MS). From that point, I have felt a much greater capacity to put the puzzle pieces back together to form the “map.”
I know that some Baptists think that Lutherans cannot possibly be saved or that all Lutherans form one big anarthrous blob of a denomination. Though I left the Lutheran church of my own accord, I will forever be grateful for what I learned there — particularly the hundreds of Bible passages I had to memorize word-for-word in my old-school Lutheran grade school.
For me, the road from Lutheranism (WELS) to Evangelicalism (BTW, in Europe these are synonyms) and Fundamentalism involved a “bridge,” if you will — the media preaching of two Presbyterians, namely D. James Kennedy and Bruce Dunn. (Dunn was also a strong dispensationalist.)
I felt like I had taken the road “full circle” when I took theology in seminary from Dr. Myron Houghton — who has his Th.D. from Concordia Seminary (LC-MS). From that point, I have felt a much greater capacity to put the puzzle pieces back together to form the “map.”
I know that some Baptists think that Lutherans cannot possibly be saved or that all Lutherans form one big anarthrous blob of a denomination. Though I left the Lutheran church of my own accord, I will forever be grateful for what I learned there — particularly the hundreds of Bible passages I had to memorize word-for-word in my old-school Lutheran grade school.
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
I share almost every one of his criticism of evangelicalism (especially in the second post) and extend his criticisms to include fundamentalism. However, I would not land in the Lutheran denomination - at least, the vast majority of it.
formerly known as Coach C
“Confessional” Christianity - Catholic, Anglican, Reformed, Lutheran - is on the rise. I’d like to think that’s because these historic movements, by plugging into their true catholic heritage, have inherent vitality. I believe, though, that this resurgence is fueled partly by societal shifts. It is common, in a period of disenchantment and perhaps decadence, when present roads seem to lead to dead ends, to search for new beginnings in half-forgotten passageways. Some of the initial enthusiasm will no doubt burn out, as many discover that the answers they seek are not there either. However, as a confessionally Reformed Christian, I think a good number will stick and find something to inspire future Christianity.
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
I agree.
A lack of any coherent confession is one of the problems with fundamentalism and the wider evangelicalism. Evangelicalism is really an offshoot of the more secular romanticism and transcendentalism where the only real common thread is “experience” and not doctrine.
A lack of any coherent confession is one of the problems with fundamentalism and the wider evangelicalism. Evangelicalism is really an offshoot of the more secular romanticism and transcendentalism where the only real common thread is “experience” and not doctrine.
formerly known as Coach C
The problem with this guy is that he’s looking for the perfect church. I agree with his criticisms, but I can think of of at least 5 churches in my area of which I know those problems aren’t predominant. He’ll eventually find problems with the Lutheran church he is in and he will leave it—good riddance!
Is he? That’s possible. He may just be impossible to please. Perhaps he focuses on the negative. He could have a critical temperament. But that doesn’t have to be the case. Maybe he just has criteria that very few churches meet. I do think that his connection to Lutheranism is tenuous. It seems like it’s his rebound girl.
When I think about it, though, I would not be comfortable attending long-term very many churches in the US. Probably less than 1%. How about you?
When I think about it, though, I would not be comfortable attending long-term very many churches in the US. Probably less than 1%. How about you?
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
Lack of Love—though I generally refused doggedly to believe that the Evangelicals in my circle were of the abusive sort, I could never quite deny the very pronounced lack of love among believers.I have been pondering lately Eph. 3—being filled to all the fulness of God (very intriguing statement), and how that is 1. in the context of the church, and 2. is largely associated with Christ’s love–—I think being filled with God will largely express itself through Christlike love.
Recently (past yr or 2), our church went through a time where several of the main movers were hostile and angry toward each other. It reminds me of these verses:
I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? (1Co 3:2-3)So the growth of that love and fulness of God is the cure for our strifes, jealousies, and immaturity. And we have to move into it as a church body (“to know with all the saints what is the height and depth …” Eph. 3).
God’s been taking me on this journey of learning to become a more connected part of our church, to stop being so introverted (I have more of the introverted gifts) and stop judging people and reach out to people. Like, some idea of what to do for someone will come to mind and at the same time God will remind me of “love” as expressing His fulness. Some interesting stories coming about … How will God transform us as we begin to more and more express His love? It’s what I want for our church.
Anyway, … it’s something I’ve been praying about lately and thinking about for a long time. Not sure if lack of love is systemic to evangelicalism b/c I have nothing to compare evangelicalism with … But I think it’s actually more a lack of grace and (hence) acceptance that leads to the lack of love. In our more rigid churches, “love” is shown, but only to acceptable people in “acceptable” ways, if that can be called love. But other churches are pretty gracious.
Fascinating article.
Having grown up in the Missouri Synod, and later as an adult coming to faith by hearing and accepting the Gospel, by way of a Baptist church, I can understand some of what the author is seeing and saying. Before my salvation, I was banking on my infant baptism as my means to someday enter Heaven, one piece of the sacramental theology spoken of in the article.
Unsettling to me was how, when I asked the Lutheran pastor from my youth, now a theologian and writer inside the LCMS, the question of salvation was answered. He and I were discussing hermeneutics. I was told that different people at different ages get saved differently, specifically, infants/children through baptism, adults by acceptance of Christ personally. Yet their official church statements do not similarly distinguish this difference. Thus, to him, baptism saves, but not all the time and not for everyone. I’ll have to dig up the old e-mail sometime.
Rock-solid guy, though, with a heart to serve the Lord, and continues to do so. Recently he stated to me what seems to be the new mantra of the LCMS: “many Lutherans are not Lutheran”, as he urges a movement back to more of their original traditions. From what I know, the LCMS seems to even stand apart from the rest of Lutheranism, especially morally. And I have no doubt this author found a group of really nice people in his LCMS church.
Unsettling to me was how, when I asked the Lutheran pastor from my youth, now a theologian and writer inside the LCMS, the question of salvation was answered. He and I were discussing hermeneutics. I was told that different people at different ages get saved differently, specifically, infants/children through baptism, adults by acceptance of Christ personally. Yet their official church statements do not similarly distinguish this difference. Thus, to him, baptism saves, but not all the time and not for everyone. I’ll have to dig up the old e-mail sometime.
Rock-solid guy, though, with a heart to serve the Lord, and continues to do so. Recently he stated to me what seems to be the new mantra of the LCMS: “many Lutherans are not Lutheran”, as he urges a movement back to more of their original traditions. From what I know, the LCMS seems to even stand apart from the rest of Lutheranism, especially morally. And I have no doubt this author found a group of really nice people in his LCMS church.
[ChrisS] I was told that different people at different ages get saved differently, specifically, infants/children through baptism, adults by acceptance of Christ personally….Thus, to him, baptism saves, but not all the time and not for everyone.Chris,
Rock-solid guy, though, with a heart to serve the Lord, and continues to do so.
I have never been able to reconcile these two perspectives. Can you help me understand? It has always appeared to me that the basic Lutheran position held to some form of baptismal regeneration as you have stated here. If so, how can we see its leaders as anything but false teachers preaching a false gospel? I know many people who take the position of your second statement, that the Missouri Synod is still solidly evangelical. I just cannot understand how point A and point B can coincide. Thanks.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
I can’t say that I can help you understand, because I don’t, either. Sorry if I gave the impression of defense of the LCMS position. My point was more on my specific friend, I have a hard time hearing him and not believing he is saved, and yet I know what he teaches about baptismal regeneration, and on that point, yes, he is certainly presenting a false gospel, and I grew up being taught these falsities. He eagerly states his life is about Christ, and to watch him, I would say that I agree, it seems heartless to say otherwise. Yet he and my relatives will answer me on salvation that “they cannot remember not being saved”, and so thus they feel they are. It ends up in a discussion where we both sound like we are saying the same thing and we are not. In summary, I know the frustration in seeing some Lutherans speak on the Gospel and actively try to live it out, and still wondering about their true salvation. And I was specifically taught in my confirmation years that works do not save, distancing them from some other Lutheran denominations.
And I still keep a copy of my Luther’s Small Catechism handy to affirm what they say they believe, and how it does not wash with Scripture.
And I still keep a copy of my Luther’s Small Catechism handy to affirm what they say they believe, and how it does not wash with Scripture.
As I read the article, I agreed with each of the points of concern the leaver of evangelicalism noted. As a fundamentalist Baptist pastor, I have systematically warned our people of these trends and worked to keep us focused on Biblical exposition and a presentation of the gospel that permeates all we do and are. In my circle of acquaintances, I have found a large number of strong fundamentalists who are working to keep their ministries Biblical and authentic.
Dick Dayton
From the outset, let’s just acknowledge that any talk about justification by faith has to center around Luther. It makes no sense, historically speaking, to set Lutheran doctrine and justification by faith in opposition.
Remember, according to Lutheran doctrine, people can lose their salvation, by not persevering in faith. So, in the end, it is the presence of faith in Christ at the time of death that ultimately determines a person’s destiny.
The issue at hand is where faith begins. According to Lutherans, God monergistically imparts faith to an infant through baptism. So, as the child grows, it’s not so much that he begins believing, but that he keeps the faith delivered to him in his baptism. So, Lutheran theology, insofar as it deals with those who grew up in the church, resists decisionism and crisis conversion experiences.
Reformed theology believes something similar, but doesn’t tie the point of regeneration to the time of baptism.
Remember, according to Lutheran doctrine, people can lose their salvation, by not persevering in faith. So, in the end, it is the presence of faith in Christ at the time of death that ultimately determines a person’s destiny.
The issue at hand is where faith begins. According to Lutherans, God monergistically imparts faith to an infant through baptism. So, as the child grows, it’s not so much that he begins believing, but that he keeps the faith delivered to him in his baptism. So, Lutheran theology, insofar as it deals with those who grew up in the church, resists decisionism and crisis conversion experiences.
Reformed theology believes something similar, but doesn’t tie the point of regeneration to the time of baptism.
[WCF 28.6] The efficacy of baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered; yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongeth unto, according to the counsel of God’s own will, in his appointed time.
My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com
Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin
I wonder if he would find fault with every church, sooner or later?
He keeps making references to the Church teaching his 10 year old son the gospel, this should be his job, not the church’s. (he had 10 yrs of Bible training)
I could not help be feel a critical spirit through the whole article. I agree with all the problems he found in those churches. My advice… Spend enough time in one Church, loving the members and demonstrating a faithfulness to the Word, so that correction can gradually be brought. We can not run from our problems… till we compromise doctrine (Lutheranism).
The Bride of Christ is a beautiful Bride, she’s not some hideous thing like you are describing. She maybe ignorant in some areas, and have much room to grow, but don’t tell me she has retreated within the confines of the liturgy of a (for the most part liberal) denomination. With his knowledge of the Word of God he should have been an asset to one of these church’s.
This same mind set is why preachers hop from church to church looking for the “right one.” I married the “right one” 15 years ago, she was and is perfect for me. We have changed much over the years, we were very ignorant and inconsiderate at times. Had many disappointments, even arguments. But I haven’t given up on her yet, and my wife is still loving me too. If we would love the Church we would be able to over look some of her flaws, we would see her true beauty. Then through the process of time those flaws will work themselves out. (in both parties, that is)
I have had people come in the church with a “grocery list of items to check off” before they are willing to come back. We are not perfect, nor are the people that come here. But there are two parties in a relationship. They must cooperate to make it work.
He keeps making references to the Church teaching his 10 year old son the gospel, this should be his job, not the church’s. (he had 10 yrs of Bible training)
I could not help be feel a critical spirit through the whole article. I agree with all the problems he found in those churches. My advice… Spend enough time in one Church, loving the members and demonstrating a faithfulness to the Word, so that correction can gradually be brought. We can not run from our problems… till we compromise doctrine (Lutheranism).
The Bride of Christ is a beautiful Bride, she’s not some hideous thing like you are describing. She maybe ignorant in some areas, and have much room to grow, but don’t tell me she has retreated within the confines of the liturgy of a (for the most part liberal) denomination. With his knowledge of the Word of God he should have been an asset to one of these church’s.
This same mind set is why preachers hop from church to church looking for the “right one.” I married the “right one” 15 years ago, she was and is perfect for me. We have changed much over the years, we were very ignorant and inconsiderate at times. Had many disappointments, even arguments. But I haven’t given up on her yet, and my wife is still loving me too. If we would love the Church we would be able to over look some of her flaws, we would see her true beauty. Then through the process of time those flaws will work themselves out. (in both parties, that is)
I have had people come in the church with a “grocery list of items to check off” before they are willing to come back. We are not perfect, nor are the people that come here. But there are two parties in a relationship. They must cooperate to make it work.
[Charlie] From the outset, let’s just acknowledge that any talk about justification by faith has to center around Luther. It makes no sense, historically speaking, to set Lutheran doctrine and justification by faith in opposition.Charlie has summed this up well. I will just try to make the subject even more clear for those who have absolutely no grounding in Lutheran theology.
Remember, according to Lutheran doctrine, people can lose their salvation, by not persevering in faith. So, in the end, it is the presence of faith in Christ at the time of death that ultimately determines a person’s destiny.
No confessional Lutheran believes in salvation by works — including baptism. The Lutheran teaching is that faith is received THROUGH the sacrament of baptism. While I do not believe this, if you understand it correctly it makes it much easier to understand how a real Lutheran can truly be saved if they are trusting in Christ.
As Dr. Houghton says, the issue for a Lutheran is — have you received the gift (the gospel) or are you trusting in the wrapping on the gift (your baptism)?
[Before we get puffed up, let’s remember that Baptists can just as easily face the same types of issues around things like praying the sinner’s prayer, walking an aisle, etc.]
Confessional Lutherans are so strong on grace and faith alone, in fact, that they can over-correct and almost rule out the possibility of someone hearing the gospel and trusting in Christ — fearing that such a crisis decision could become a human work.
FWIW, most Baptists are about as good at explaining the Lutheran view of baptism and soteriology as Lutherans would be at drawing a chart of the 70th week of Daniel. ;)
Church Ministries Representative, serving in the Midwest, for The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry
[Paul J. Scharf][Charlie] As Dr. Houghton says, the issue for a Lutheran is — have you received the gift (the gospel) or are you trusting in the wrapping on the gift (your baptism)?Yes, that was me before accepting the gift. I was never taught the difference or distinction.
Discussion