Saylorville Church responds: "Could it be that Dr. Bauder has touched a nerve of fear? ... a fear of 1,000 'what ifs'?"

One of the criticisms leveled against us is that our name change lacks clarity. Yet this has been the very reason we have made this move, our now former name lacked clarity.

In ‘Erasing Hell’ Francis Chan writes, “If you call someone a Baptist, all you’ve said is that they don’t baptize babies – beyond this, it’s pretty much up for grabs”. The ‘Baptist’ ame has lost the clarity it might once have possessed. It no longer stands tall as a gospel centered, life-changing church it once did.

Question: What occurs when you tell an unsaved person you are a Baptist? (Obviously referring to you who are Baptists.)
Have you even gone beyond speculation? Would you be willing to take the test? We have and have found the name wanting.

I have an atheist daughter in law who equates all Baptists with Westboro Baptist. Is that who I want to be identified with? Quite obviously not.

Let me say at the outset that I am Grace Brethren and not “Baptist.” I am a product of Grace Seminary where many conservative (small “C”) Baptist and IFCA pastors received their education. Some would argue that there isn’t much difference between the two names, one originating in England and the other in Germany. In more lucid moments I would agree with that sentiment. However, names are powerful things. Why? Because it identifies a group.

Men and women suffered and died for the Baptist name in England and colonial America. Similarly, when Alexander Mack organized his first Brethren congregation and re-baptized members in 1708, within eleven years many of them left the persecution of both the Lutheran Protestants and the Roman Catholic Church for the freedom of America. These names were earned, not merely given. Both groups built their styles of Christianity over the years, and the names mean something.

Yet there is a growing trend within both groups to drop the formal “Baptist” or “Brethren” from the names of the individual churches. Why? These churches concluded that the names actually turn people away from them, not attract people to them.

Allow me to use two examples of these churches with which I am familiar. Faith Church is a successful GARBC church in Lafayette, Indiana. It is well-known in Nouthetic counseling circles. They now offer primary, secondary and post-graduate education and a wide range of other services for youth, unwed mothers, and Purdue students. Faith dropped the “Baptist” from their name about two years ago and is now simply Faith Church. Has it resulted in more members and the offering of even more services? I’m not sure, but the parking lot always seems to be busy when I drive by going into town. Many people with college degrees leave our small Indiana town on Sundays and drive the 25 miles or so to East Lafayette and worship there.

Goshen Community Church, Goshen, Indiana, used to be Goshen Grace Brethren Church. Some years ago a dynamic pastor took the church, sold the building, changed the name, and moved it into a newer middle school auditorium. From that point the church grew almost exponentially. It is full-bore contemporary. They built a new building south of town and have since added more space. It is now one of the largest churches in the Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches.

In both cases gifted men, one primarily an expositor and the other an evangelist, built large churches rather quickly. God, of course, gets all the credit and the glory, but these men did a lot of the “right” things and have been rewarded with much responsibility for their efforts. But was the name change the difference in these two churches? Viewed from a distance I would say “somewhat” for the Goshen church and “not so much” for Faith.

I have NEVER run into anyone who brushed me off for being a Baptist. I’m not entitled to it, but I’d like a church like this to quantify the push-back they’ve gotten for being “Baptist” in name. I have a hunch that there are a few anecdotal stories. Will we stop using the labels “Christian” and “church” if the world comes to have a problem with them?

[Jonathan Charles]

I have NEVER run into anyone who brushed me off for being a Baptist. I’m not entitled to it, but I’d like a church like this to quantify the push-back they’ve gotten for being “Baptist” in name. I have a hunch that there are a few anecdotal stories. Will we stop using the labels “Christian” and “church” if the world comes to have a problem with them?

Jim,

Perhaps you misstated, but to say that Baptist have died for the name is dubious. I know of no Baptist who has died for the name. Rather, numerous have died for what Baptist has historically represented: a certain theological position on baptism.

I think that is an important distinction because that would seem to be Saylorville’s point. Dying on the hill of the name is asinine, dying on the hill of the doctrine is a different matter.

FWIW, I have an immigrant community who came to our church precisely because we had Baptist in our name. They currently comprise up to 1/3 of our Sunday morning attendance. I also have two couples in their twenties from non-Baptist backgrounds preparing to join, along with another middle-aged couple coming from the mainline Presbyterian church in town.

Hey, its anecdotal. But it isn’t always the obstacle some make it out to be.

To answer Pat Nemmer’s question, yes, I tell lost people I’m Baptist all the time. It kind of comes with telling them where I work. If there is any recoiling in horror, they keep it to themselves, from what I can see. I just let things like our foster parenting, grief counseling for a recent suicide, and things like that paint the fuller picture of our personal reputation in our community. The work with the Karen refugees certainly enhances our reputation as a congregation, too, as does the public reputations of several of our members.

We distinguish ourselves with labels to some degree, but in the end, our call is still to stand out through love and good works. If there are negatives connected with a label, a name change only does so much, anyway. Instead of being such and such Baptist church, you’ll be the church that used to be “such and such Baptist Church” (like the SBC church in our town that changed its name from Calvary Baptist Church to “Radiant Life”).

There are lost people who will throw up defenses if you tell them you’re a Baptist. There are lost people who will throw up defenses if you tell them you’re from a “church,” or if you mention “Jesus.” In the end, there’s only so much name changing will do, for them. The name does mean something in the scope of Christian context- in that sense, it is meant both to attract and repel.

But we’ve been down this road already…

In the end, it’s all about locality. What baptist is associated with in location X, isn’t necessarily the association in location Y.

Leave it up to the local church to decide what is best for her. After all, aren’t we baptists? =)

IK

…there’s a giant tank somewhere as the focal point inside. Clarity hits you smack in the face when first you pass through the doors, regardless of the name out by the street.

How silly to think that sound doctrine is somehow maintained by a label on the front of the church.

Agree

[jimfrank]

Faith Church is a successful GARBC church in Lafayette, Indiana. It is well-known in Nouthetic counseling circles. They now offer primary, secondary and post-graduate education and a wide range of other services for youth, unwed mothers, and Purdue students. Faith dropped the “Baptist” from their name about two years ago and is now simply Faith Church. Has it resulted in more members and the offering of even more services? I’m not sure, but the parking lot always seems to be busy when I drive by going into town. Many people with college degrees leave our small Indiana town on Sundays and drive the 25 miles or so to East Lafayette and worship there.

jim/frank, Has “Baptist” been removed from the sign in front of Faith Church? The website photo of the church shows the full name.

How silly to think that sound doctrine is somehow maintained by a label on the front of the church.

I can see why he would say that. At the same time, isn’t it also silly to think that removing the name and welcoming in people to the fellowship of a local church who would have been repelled by the label won’t have any impact on the church’s doctrine? I mean, I understand the appeal to the lost and all, but that isn’t where all of the growth comes from in churches like there. You draw people who were already professing believers, too. I know for a fact that there are some from the church where I used to serve as associate pastor who are active at SC. I’m not condemning them for it- these things happen the other way, too. But the point I’m making is that in moves like this, you will bring in people who may not see the necessity for say, a dispensational approach, or the ministry of the Holy Spirit, or baptism by immersion… Not every matter may be a Baptist distinctive, precisely, but a removal of the name can give the impression that things may not be as important as they used to be. You cannot (and should not) rely on the label alone to do your doctrinal monitoring, yet to imply that it cannot be a useful tool seems quite silly, too.

Do Baptists do this more than most? Tim Keller went to the heart of secular America to evangelize people who had every wrong preconceived idea there probably is of organized religion, yet he started a church with its denominational commitment clearly communicated in its name, and the church has flourished. IMO, that it is typical of unbelievers to not go to a church just because it is Baptist is just a bogeyman used by a pastor to scare a church into changing its name.

Are we not forgetting the big picture here? Who “brings” people into the church? Is it the church name? pastor? programs? methods?

I think we’re placing too much weight in a name, on both ends of the debate.

Ultimately, the Spirit directs man on where he ought to go.

iK…

Well, for that matter, why bother with anything? Just let the Holy Spirit do it all…

While we do rely on the Spirit, that doesn’t mean our decisions have no consequence. Granted, there is a degree of relativity to this decision. I don’t think that means its irrelevant or inconsequential, though.