John Piper and Mark Driscoll: lessons not learned?
John Piper and Mark Driscoll: lessons not learned?
“… when Piper extended his embrace to Mark Driscoll, all that gravitas and bona fides was added to Driscoll’s resume.”
- 718 views
Photo of the Sharper Iron / John MacArthur quick response unit “war room”
I really like the format of the Ask Pastor John series. I listen regularly to them as well as to Doug Wilson’s video series “ask Doug.” It’s good to exercise the old brain muscle routinely, and I alternatively am exasperated and wowed with both men. For example, I was completely exasperated at Piper’s treatment of US gun and self defense policy on the one hand and completely intrigued by Doug Wilson’s argument that the Bible hints at the resurrection of animals on the other.
I’d listen to Dave Doran’s “Ask Dave” any time.
Ditto. I’d LOVE to hear an “Ask Dave” or “Seeking Sam Horn” podcast.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
It seems this discussion has drifted a little…so back to the original article. Dan Philips has done a wonderful service in pointing out a rather significant flaw in the ministry of John Piper. As I write this I am staring at a pile of Piper books on my shelf. I, like Philips, have greatly benefited from Piper’s ministry and speaking. I have shown videos produced by Desiring God in our church, recommended his books to many in my congregation, and have encouraged members to listen to his preaching.
However, this is not the only time Piper has shown a serious lack of discernment in putting on a national stage men who are not exemplary Christian leaders. And I don’t buy the argument that “we all have blind spots” as it pertains to Piper’s friendships. When he speaks, the evangelical world listens. Mark Dever has called him on several occasions an evangelical rock star. If Piper does not understand this, it is not just a “blind spot.” Rather, its a tragic lack of sound judgment. I have many friends. Some of those friends are very close. But friendship never means that I will invite a person into my pulpit to speak any more than I will invite them to do surgery on my back! Some of my closest friends (including some pastors) are not people whom I would want to put on a national stage.
A little over a year ago I had lunch with an evangelical pastor in my area. I was glad to go and to get to know him, pray for him, and pray for his church. He was driving the discussion and asked what I thought of Mark Driscoll. My response was simple: “he says some good things theologically but I wouldn’t want him as my pastor or any body else’s pastor.” The pastor’s response: “But John Piper supports him.” Tragic.
Driscoll is out of the ministry. Let’s pray for a full repentance, and a full restoration.
Thinking of “Dirty Laundry” by the Eagles. Maybe, I’ll go listen to it now.
It’ll be a while before he’s out of the news, it seems. Just to avoid another separate Filings Driscoll post…
http://www.christianpost.com/news/former-mars-hill-pastor-mark-driscoll…
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
That was by Don Henley himself as part of a solo album. Not the Eagles …
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Oops.
Why don’t you just kick me.
Phil Johnson, if you’re still reading, my personal thanks for the explanation of the 2011 income of Pastor MacArthur. I have to confess that, given my respect for the man, it took me by surprise that his income had ever been that high. Having lived in LA, I can agree that an appropriate income there will be higher than some other places, but even so, that seemed more than I’d have expected him to accept.
Thanks also to Tyler for the comment on that song. :^)
But to the topic of Driscoll, thanks also to Aaron for the link to the Driscolls selling their home. OK, they’ve owned the home for 14 years, but they’ve moved three times for safety reasons….call me hard to persuade, but I’m having trouble reconciling the two statements. Either his move to that home was occasioned by troubles way back, or his family actually left it a few years back due to things and are only now getting around to selling it, or…..
….I’ll be blunt; if I’m interviewing him for a position—an experience I don’t ever think I’ll have but let’s run with it—I am asking him for redacted copies of the police reports and a timeline of his moves. His story raises more questions than it answers.
But on the bright side, if I put the brightest possible spin on the article Aaron linked this morning at 8am, it means that Driscoll’s home is decidedly less opulent than I’d have guessed he’d have had. In that regard, he’s doing (at least for now) far better than his buddy James MacDonald, whose home is valued somewhere north of $2 million in the Chicago suburbs.
Overall, it’s my thought that “love of money” is probably one of the biggest issues we need to face today in our church leadership—a lot of us seem to think “if the deacons or elders think it’s OK, it’s fine”, and we therefore miss a lot of problems that we’d clue in on instantly if we understood that a consistent pattern of “living large” and hiding one’s income just might indicate a love of money not compatible with the Scriptures. Or even a consistent pattern of trying to live large—a big reason I don’t try to draw a hard line, but there’s got to be a point where a church recognizes a love of money in the same way that most churches will recognize the wrongness of sexual sin.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
No worries - in a sermon a few weeks back I said that Moses was sent to Nineveh to preach. We all make mistakes!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Sean, I recall one of my favorite mistakes was when I heard a preacher, throughout his sermon, keep coming back to the refrain, “but Moses REFUSED to be called Pharaoh’s daughter!” I would too.
According to something that Warren Throckmorton posted a few days ago, Driscoll is thinking about planting a church in Southern California, and had apparently thought about moving MH to Orange County, CA at one point. So I’m a little skeptical that this home sale just happens to be occuring at the same time he’s supposedly thinking about church planting in CA.
Time will tell, but I don’t think he’s done yet, although he ought to be. I said this in October - I think he’ll be in a church position by February 2015.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
So Mark_Smith attempts some wildly-offbase assertions and insinuations, is shown to be far off the mark, and his response is… “OK, can we move on!”
And this apparently is what all the regulars expect?
Nice.
[DanPhillips]Hmmm. Aren’t you making an insinuation yourself when you say that Mark’s comment is “what all the regulars expect”?So Mark_Smith attempts some wildly-offbase assertions and insinuations, is shown to be far off the mark, and his response is… “OK, can we move on!”
And this apparently is what all the regulars expect?
Nice.
Discussion