In my experience, I’d have been tempted to ask the person to flesh it out with specifics….but with the expectation that the response would be “less than satisfying” in its commentary. Perhaps I am a fool for having done this, but when confronted with KJVO activists and the like, I’ve yet got a burden to call them to repentance for their approach, specifically their tendency to attack those who don’t think just like they do.
Never got anywhere as far as I know, but it’s a burden I have nonetheless.
About four months ago, the guy (for some reason) realized I didn’t use the KJV. He saw something I wrote on the Trinity, and messaged me because I used a verse from the ESV in the article. I told him I wasn’t KJVO (and hadn’t been for YEARS). He was frosty in his reply.
So, I have to think the guy was very upset with me and was looking for something to explode about. For some reason, he chose that short sermon excerpt. I still don’t know why he was upset. I don’t know if it’s because I quoted from the ESV, or because he misunderstood what I was saying in the excerpt. Either way, I believe he was looking for an excuse to “set me straight.”
Just so weird.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
I’m glad that I’ve got a very limited sample size of “hyper fundamental admonishment”, but when I left a “wannabe KJVO” church, my experience was that the initial response I received was a LOT like that which Tyler records. Another example of this phenomenon is the “Convergent” warning from the FBFI—lots of smoke and fire, but no definition of the term. “We’ll make the accusation, but we won’t flesh things out so you can respond.”
Now is this pattern more prevalent in certain portions of fundamentalism than elsewhere? I don’t have statistical proof of that. That noted, what I see suggests there could well be a problem.
Your article has a black and white picture of an assembly. Do you know where that picture was taken? I think I do know, but I’m not sure. I’d be interested in its source.
The caption reads: “Crowd seated in church hall with display featuring maps of Ohio, Florida, Maryland, and California, in background.” You can find it here. I’m afraid I don’t know anything else about it!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
When I look closely: they guy in the immediate foreground appears to have a clerical collar, and there are perhaps some nuns in the middle of the crowd? The cross just above the exit sign actually has an image of Jesus on it.
But they’ve got international maps set up in the back.
So this is St. Pat’s Parish Church meets BJU missions emphasis week? :)
The cross in the back seems to have a figure still on it, so I would infer it would either be of a Catholic assembly, or a Protestant assembly that didn’t clue in to the theological reasons why Protestants use a bare cross instead of a crucifix—because Christ is Risen and His work is complete. So yes, a number of hints exist that these guys are not fundamental Baptists.
Also very interesting is that it’s racially mixed. You don’t always see that in pictures from the 1960s.
One side note; my dad grew up Methodist in the 1940s and 1950s, and he says that he remembers people strongly objecting to new translations, and a push to keep the KJV. So at least as far as he remembers, KJV-preferred (or RSV-abhorred? due to Isiaiah 7:14?) existed a while ago.
Discussion
NewHmmm....
In my experience, I’d have been tempted to ask the person to flesh it out with specifics….but with the expectation that the response would be “less than satisfying” in its commentary. Perhaps I am a fool for having done this, but when confronted with KJVO activists and the like, I’ve yet got a burden to call them to repentance for their approach, specifically their tendency to attack those who don’t think just like they do.
Never got anywhere as far as I know, but it’s a burden I have nonetheless.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewReally more of an uncouth, ignorant 'friend' than ...
Really more of an uncouth, ignorant ‘friend’ than … fundamentalism
Twitter
Jim's Doctrinal Statement
NewYou can't give a second
You can’t give a second thought to such ignorant criticism. Can’t believe the guy responded to it.
NewWeird
About four months ago, the guy (for some reason) realized I didn’t use the KJV. He saw something I wrote on the Trinity, and messaged me because I used a verse from the ESV in the article. I told him I wasn’t KJVO (and hadn’t been for YEARS). He was frosty in his reply.
So, I have to think the guy was very upset with me and was looking for something to explode about. For some reason, he chose that short sermon excerpt. I still don’t know why he was upset. I don’t know if it’s because I quoted from the ESV, or because he misunderstood what I was saying in the excerpt. Either way, I believe he was looking for an excuse to “set me straight.”
Just so weird.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewMy take
I’m glad that I’ve got a very limited sample size of “hyper fundamental admonishment”, but when I left a “wannabe KJVO” church, my experience was that the initial response I received was a LOT like that which Tyler records. Another example of this phenomenon is the “Convergent” warning from the FBFI—lots of smoke and fire, but no definition of the term. “We’ll make the accusation, but we won’t flesh things out so you can respond.”
Now is this pattern more prevalent in certain portions of fundamentalism than elsewhere? I don’t have statistical proof of that. That noted, what I see suggests there could well be a problem.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
NewQuestion
Your article has a black and white picture of an assembly. Do you know where that picture was taken? I think I do know, but I’m not sure. I’d be interested in its source.
NewDr. Moritz
The caption reads: “Crowd seated in church hall with display featuring maps of Ohio, Florida, Maryland, and California, in background.” You can find it here. I’m afraid I don’t know anything else about it!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewThe photo
TinEye turned up nothing for that image.
When I look closely: they guy in the immediate foreground appears to have a clerical collar, and there are perhaps some nuns in the middle of the crowd? The cross just above the exit sign actually has an image of Jesus on it.
But they’ve got international maps set up in the back.
So this is St. Pat’s Parish Church meets BJU missions emphasis week? :)
Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA
NewWho knows
I searched for “black and white church group” and found this. That’s all I know.
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
NewCrucifix
The cross in the back seems to have a figure still on it, so I would infer it would either be of a Catholic assembly, or a Protestant assembly that didn’t clue in to the theological reasons why Protestants use a bare cross instead of a crucifix—because Christ is Risen and His work is complete. So yes, a number of hints exist that these guys are not fundamental Baptists.
Also very interesting is that it’s racially mixed. You don’t always see that in pictures from the 1960s.
One side note; my dad grew up Methodist in the 1940s and 1950s, and he says that he remembers people strongly objecting to new translations, and a push to keep the KJV. So at least as far as he remembers, KJV-preferred (or RSV-abhorred? due to Isiaiah 7:14?) existed a while ago.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.