Muslims Recoil at a French Proposal to Change the Quran

Awfully unsporting of them, not wanting to adjust portions of their holy book that they believe existed in the mind of Allah for all eternity. Downright unneighborly.

In my opinion, my reading of the French article and the context does not require a deletion of those verses. That would be highly unlikely if not impossible. It seems more a demand for a declaration that those verses are obsolete, no longer in force and cannot be claimed as applicable any longer to justify violence.

[Steve Davis]

In my opinion, my reading of the French article and the context does not require a deletion of those verses. That would be highly unlikely if not impossible. It seems more a demand for a declaration that those verses are obsolete, no longer in force and cannot be claimed as applicable any longer to justify violence.

France has a long history of welcoming immigrants. However, with large families and policies that allow extended families in (including multiple wives), the Muslim population has surged and Islam is the second largest religion in France after Catholicism. The French do not hesitate to use the term “radical Islam.” There has been a wave of anti-Semitism and elderly Jews murdered recently. There was a huge march in Paris joined even by some Muslim imams who decried the violence. The imams are under police protection. It’s an interesting history and I’m doing research in the area. Muslims came in after WWII when workers were needed. There was little conflict until the 1980s and it has only gotten worse. The same questions asked about the compatibility of Islam with a secular Republic were asked over 100 years ago when the Roman Catholic Church was disestablished in 1905. The RCC eventually accommodated itself to the new situation. The debate today centers on whether a French Islam is possible.

[Jim]

Steve Davis wrote:

The debate today centers on whether a French Islam is possible.

Impossible.

You may be right. Islam does have a formal representation with the French government. One problem is that it doesn’t represent all the Muslim groups. Early Muslim immigration was mostly from N. Africa, former colonies who assimilated better. Many Muslims are secular and non-practicing. They were Muslims by birth and lived in countries where that religious identity was required. Not all newer arrivals are interested in assimilation and come from countries far removed from Western values. Thus the conflict with Republican values of liberty, equality, and fraternity. The open borders also contributed to the influx of illegal immigrants. Europe is rethinking its border policies and many nations have already begun tightening their borders. It might be too little, too late.

Having spent a considerable amount of time in France, I offer the following two observations:

First, It may appear that France welcomes immigrants, but the fact of the matter is that there is severe discrimination of minorities and non-French people. Just getting off the station at Gare du Nord or drive through some of the immigrant neighborhoods, it is terrible how they are ostracized. Let alone what the common person will say about them in normal conversation.

Second, I will be very curious to see how a rabidly secular France deals with any increase in religious tendencies of a certain population. It is termed Laicite in French.

Whether France is rabidly secular or not, laïcité in principle is State neutrality and freedom of conscience. The law of 1905 is called the law of laïcité although the word itself was not used in the law. Protestants welcomed the law and defend the principle in its juridical form today. The word does appear in the Vth Republic Constitution. However, there are expressions of religion which are incompatible with the Republic, for example do not allow conversion from to another and incite violence). These religious expressions are incompatible with French values. They should not be tolerated.

I lived in France for several years. Our first church plant in the late 80s was mostly immigrants. The French government provided many valuable services at great expense. Housing, job training, etc. No doubt there is some discrimination from some French people. Resources are stretched thin. As I said earlier, many recent immigrants come from countries with vastly different values. It is difficult to assimilate. Many don’t care to assimilate or learn the language. I saw that when I was back living in France from 2006-2008. It’s an imperfect system but better than most. That’s why so many people want to live there. Plus the wine, cheese, pastries, and bread.

[Steve Davis]

Whether France is rabidly secular or not, laïcité in principle is State neutrality and freedom of conscience. The law of 1905 is called the law of laïcité although the word itself was not used in the law. Protestants welcomed the law and defend the principle in its juridical form today. The word does appear in the Vth Republic Constitution. However, there are expressions of religion which are incompatible with the Republic, for example do not allow conversion from to another and incite violence). These religious expressions are incompatible with French values. They should not be tolerated.

I lived in France for several years. Our first church plant in the late 80s was mostly immigrants. The French government provided many valuable services at great expense. Housing, job training, etc. No doubt there is some discrimination from some French people. Resources are stretched thin. As I said earlier, many recent immigrants come from countries with vastly different values. It is difficult to assimilate. Many don’t care to assimilate or learn the language. I saw that when I was back living in France from 2006-2008. It’s an imperfect system but better than most. That’s why so many people want to live there. Plus the wine, cheese, pastries, and bread.