Bob Jones University Enters a New Era

Northland rejected their constituency.

Big difference.

Northland ‘rejected’ a ‘constituency’ that could not keep it afloat financially because it was too small and then watched as that same ‘constituency’ ran a gossip campaign via two prominent blogs that ended up destroying it when they had to change. I could name specifics, but I won’t go there.

And by the way, I would argue that the Patz family IS the constituency that counted because they funded the school, and they supported the changes.

I’d suggest you reread some of those NIU threads, pal.

Paul was a tentmaker, Peter and others were fishermen,….so it strikes me that at least some of the apostles had a way to earn their bread besides preaching the Word of God. No? For that matter, Jesus was a carpenter first, Amos a shepherd, etc..

Tyler and Ron’s testimony says that something is way, way wrong in many of our churches. Something like those FB comments Don got, if you catch my drift. Off topic? Only partially, since the object of our affection here, BJU, is part of fundamental culture, no? One might infer that it would be awfully nice to have another alternative besides remaining in that area.

And I’ll confess that, perhaps for somewhat different reasons from Don’s, I’m also not completely satisfied with what I saw of BJU’s new student handbook. Moreover, as a quality engineer by trade, having dealt with ISO documents and audits, I can confirm that a policy that is not enforced, or can not be enforced, might as well not exist.

After reading all the posts here, and integrating that with my own personal experience, as well as having visited the campus often while my daughters were there, I have to say that overall, I still find most of the changes being for the better. Some rules needed to go, but as I mentioned in my last post, overall, it’s not the rules themselves that are usually the problem (though getting rid of stupid ones is a big help).

I have also seen a few times in the past few years where modesty was in question, and if that is really no longer valued at all, that’s a problem, as is non-enforcement of the handbook. I just assumed that just like when I was there, kids will try to get away with things, or maybe it was inadvertent. As to how infractions are dealt with, I still much prefer what my kids described over the enforcement we received in the 80’s, but if some things are not enforced at all, that’s an issue. I haven’t seen the latest handbooks, so I can’t really speak to any concerns.

I have attended many concerts/recitals/etc. on the campus in the last 5 years, and I have to say that the music is still *very* conservative, and except for perhaps using songs they might not have used before and changing the style, I haven’t seen anything resembling CCM. Maybe I’ve missed something, or maybe some making those types of claims are way more picky than I am (and I much prefer high-church style to anything else).

But overall, the biggest change is the one that Don seems to think is the worst problem — the overall spirit of the students. I find it much more genuine and engaging than things were when I was there. Back then, most of the time one just tried to keep his or her head down to not attract any kind of attention from above, and as others have stated, discipleship was not at all the emphasis in the dorms or in most other situations. Some faculty and staff really tried in this area, but it was (in my experience) more the exception than the rule. Immature kids will always be what they are until they mature, but it just seems so much more genuine that the overall attitude isn’t so harsh and demanding as it once was.

[Don Johnson] Anyway, in all of this I am not arguing for rules as such. I am arguing that the overall package of changes have left me dissatisfied and I really have no more enthusiasm for recommending BJU.

1. The faculty is still top notch and many of them have been there for years. From an educational and philosophical standpoint, what you get from the teachers I would expect to be basically unchanged.

2. While there are external-type changes I’m not thrilled about, the basic emphasis on Christian living and holiness is still more conservative than most anywhere else.

3. At least for now, I’m not worried about the type of music they use in chapel and special events, or at the church my son goes to.

4. My son gets to take voice lessons from David Parker and participate in choirs and other fine arts-type extracurriculars that are unmatched in their quality.

5. I’m pleased with the preaching that he will be exposed to in chapel, Bible Conference, and at church

6. We have good friends on staff, faculty, and in the community that we can turn to for help if necessary.

7. The campus and facilities are beautiful and well-maintained

8. BJU is now regionally accredited

9. I feel like the faculty, staff, and administration will truly care for my son while he is there and will will pour out their lives on his behalf (not only his but all the students)

10. He is in a place where he can grow, learn independence, and mature in life and godliness

I don’t know what life is like in the dorms now and maybe I’ll have some different perspectives as I hear more regarding his experiences. For now though, as I said earlier, I’m very happy and excited for him as he begins this year, even if I have some real concerns in the back of my mind.

It is my understanding that BJU is presenting its seminary as its pastor training arm instead of an undergrad program. Young men may major in another subject with a suggested minor in Greek and then go to the seminary for advanced training. That’s just what I sense is happening.

In the olden days “full-time Christian service” was presented as the highest calling and sacrifices, especially financial, were expected. Even BJU’s Church Planting venture, which no longer exists, sent men out with meager support for one year. We were told to expect difficulty but expected to endure. I mean when you have a required class called “The Preacher and His Problems” what should one expect?

In those days BJU had a list of churches that were looking for pastors and our names were often sent to churches with BJU recommendation. I don’t know if they still have that service but the last time I accessed it there were very few churches on it and practically none of those were full-time positions.

I don’t know what fundamentalists are doing in the area of church planting today but the CE’s/convergents seem to be doing pretty well.

[AndyE]

I suspect that I may have many of the same concerns and yet I’m still on board with BJU for now. Here are what I see as positives:…

I don’t know what life is like in the dorms now and maybe I’ll have some different perspectives as I hear more regarding his experiences. For now though, as I said earlier, I’m very happy and excited for him as he begins this year, even if I have some real concerns in the back of my mind.

Andy, I appreciate what you say. Let me know if your perspective changes over the next year or two. You have my email.

And I have to say that there are many, many personal friends at BJU. I’m not speaking here lightly or happily.

As we enter the weekend I want to make a prophecy! (In reality I’m a cessationist.) If BJU turns the corner and starts to grow and prosper I predict there will be two opinions. One group will say that God has blessed BJU’s decisions to make changes without compromising Biblical truth. The other group will say that BJU is growing because they’ve compromised and sold out.

I can’t believe we are still having the modesty discussion. Modesty should be taught at home by moms (please, dads, don’t go there. They don’t need to hear from you).
I read the highly detailed modesty rules for women. I have been in churches with rules similar or more strict than BJU. Let me tell you what happened. Everyone became preoccupied with modesty and became modesty police. My own boys would comment if they saw a woman jogging down the street in short spandex. They wanted to make sure everyone was pure, even turning over magazines in grocery stores. I finally realized that people were spending so much time policing each other at church that they were missing the people. It also made them judge people as sinful, tempting, etc. The rules were a distraction to having real relationships because in their minds they were scheming on how or when they would inform this person that they weren’t dressing properly.

Even in Muslim countries in which women are fully covered, men get tempted with lust. Lust is a heart issue, not a skin issue. Modesty is a heart issue, not a skin issue. Please stop paying attention to inches, and tightness. Some women will not be able to hide their figure no matter what they wear. Work on your own heart and give women a break. It’s difficult enough to be a woman without having to place extra rules.
Let’s also not forget that these college students are most likely all adults. Let’s treat them as adults. If parents have done a good enough job at home raising them, the modesty issue should be long done.

[Ron Bean]

At age 60 I found myself with no savings, no home (we rented), and no skills applicable to a “real job”.. Thankfully God gave me a job in retail with a great company with great benefits that treated me better than the ministries in which I served.

I find this very sad. I also found the first part about getting a teacher’s certificate for public schools as evil also sad. Just because you are working in Christian ministry doesn’t mean you should live in poverty.

[Ron Bean]

I concentrated on looking for dress code violations among the ladies. (I suppose that makes me a dirty old man.) I did see a few girls whose skirts seemed too short to my aged eyes and some of the slacks could have used a little more slack.

You said it. Please stop this behavior. The Holy Spirit does a better job of convicting than “dirty old men.” Please continue to do exercise for your physical and spiritual heart.

I share your sentiments on fashion police. When I visit BJU I’ll take my wife, she’s better at that stuff anyway. You two would make a good pair.

I find the last few posts very interesting.

Although both Ron & Julie have some valid comments, the practical mechanics of their comments are more difficult. Of course the Holy Spirit convicts. Of course people can people preoccupied with rules. Of course people can be “fashion police”, etc, etc. But does that make rules wrong or inappropriate?

Just exactly, practically, specifically how should a Christian school apply Biblical teaching on clothing or any other issue, such as music? The sad truth is that some (maybe many) parents have not taught their children Biblical principles or that these students came from non-Christian homes and are now by God’s grace in a Christian college. Yes, discipleship is the long-term answer. But while we wait for discipleship to produce results, external rules and standards maintain some degree of fairness and attempts at following Biblical principles in practical ways. I get the impression from some comments that people would prefer not to have any rules concerning clothing or music at Christian schools. Without any specific rules concerning clothing, there will be those who will wear just about anything under the label of “Christian freedom”. And without a specific guideline to regulate clothing, there’s nothing you can do about it. Sure, go ahead and quote some Bible verses about modesty since the Bible does teach that principle (for men as well as women), but their response will be “Your idea of modesty and my idea of modesty are different.” So there you have it. A standoff because no rule exists to regulate clothing. In any organization, whether Christian or secular, rules must exist to regulate behavior to help insure fairness to everyone. Our sin nature requires it. The disagreement revolves around what those rules should be. An organization must have rules and policies. If you do, then those rules have to be as clear as possible and enforced in some way. To call the enforcement of rules “fashion police” is pejorative and not helpful. Are there people who consider themselves the “policers” of the behavior of others? Sure. But that doesn’t make the rules themselves wrong. Of course lust and modesty are “heart issues” - Just about everything is. But that doesn’t mean that rules are irrelevant.

Contrary to Julie’s comment about Dads: Yes, daughters DO need to hear from their fathers about modesty. It’s the responsibility of BOTH parents (Eph 6:4).

Once again: This illustrates the false dichotomy between discipleship/growth and rules, as if they are mutually exclusive. Why do they have to be? To assume that every 18 year old who comes to college is a “mature adult” is naive. If they were, then why have discipleship since they are already “mature”? The fact that we see the need for discipleship reveals that we know maturity is incomplete. Therefore, whatever rules a college has are for the assistance of growth and discipleship. Can rules receive excessive focus? Of course. But that doesn’t mean rules are wrong. Again: False dichotomy.

Interesting that this discussion about BJU’s changes has focused on discipleship, rules, modesty, etc - The same topics people have discussed about Christian colleges for many years. We live in a culture that has become self-absorbed, very independent minded, and sloppy in its personal standards. Christian schools are trying to confront these changes and stay viable (financially sound) as schools. An interesting discussion would be: At what point can a Christian college no longer change to adapt to the expectations of people? Where are the lines that we cannot cross just to stay open? Is a Christian college’s administration willing to close a school if staying open means violating multiple Biblical principles, even if your core beliefs are still the same? That would be interesting to work out.

[AndyE]

I suspect that I may have many of the same concerns and yet I’m still on board with BJU for now.

I don’t know that I’d have exactly the same concerns as you, but the positives you posted are very close (with the exception of accreditation, which wasn’t yet a given and was something I was concerned about) to what I considered when my kids were also interested in checking out BJU. I didn’t dictate the school my kids went to, though they knew there were a number of schools I *wouldn’t* pay for, and they both actually chose BJU even when they had other options. Some discussions with faculty and others who were closer to the school, which I hadn’t seen much after graduation until my kids went there, helped give me a lot more comfort and perspective.

Out of the office on Friday, so I’m just now seeing the seventy something new posts on this article. Anything about BJU seems to generate a lot of heat, pro and con. I think I understand why, but it still amazes me. Like I said earlier, when it comes to BJU, no matter what they do, they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. Change nothing, and they get criticized for being too strict. Change anything, and they are criticized for compromising. (As if the BJU rules are the Bible. Really!)

I would encourage everyone to take a wait and see attitude. In my opinion, some changes were needed, and are long overdue. My impression is that BJU remains strongly committed to Biblical Christianity, and is not making changes that weaken this commitment. I think the changes actually strengthen their ability to train students in godliness. Were the old rules bad for me when I was on campus from 1960 to 1972? No. In the main, they were good for me. I, like everyone else, needed to learn submission to authority. Some, like Tyler, learned that in the military. I learned it largely at BJU. Were all the rules imposed because of clear Biblical teaching? No. Many were arbitrary, unnecessary, and strictly pragmatic. Is that entirely bad? No. Anyplace where you have several thousand people living together in close proximity, you will need some rules to enable people to function efficiently. (Again, think of the military.) Did the rules produce godliness? No. Rules cannot do that, except the lesson of learning to submit to authority is actually a pretty good lesson in godliness. Wives, employees, and citizens all find themselves in similar situations. Do strict rules produce modesty? No. There were plenty of girls at BJU when I was there who were anything but modest. I could tell you a few stories, but these things are better left untold.

Bottom line. Give BJU a chance. Let them make some changes without imputing impure motives. Maybe, just maybe, the present administration is sincerely endeavoring to honor the Lord. May, just maybe, they are honestly endeavoring to be more Scriptural, not less. Let’s give it some time, and see what results over the next five or ten years.