BJU To Observe Martin Luther King Jr. Day

Bob Jones University used to have magazine Frontline, and in it, years ago, there was a very negative article about MLK, Jr. When my wife, a teacher, taught about MLK, Jr. during Black History Month in Christian school, another teacher produced that magazine edition with the article about MLK, Jr. to inform her on the truth about him. Some of the things alleged about King are probably true, mainly his adulteries. But as Piper wrote (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/dont-waste-martin-luther-king-weeke…) we don’t have to celebrate all that he did, just what he did to improve the lives of blacks in the United States of America.

MLK, Jr. was a theological and political liberal whose philandering was well-known; he also professed to be a minister of the Gospel. It is reasonable that a university known for its hardcore theological and political conservatism would not celebrate his holiday.

That being said, MLK, Jr. has come to represent far more than simply himself. Due to his martyrdom, he has become the embodiment of the entire civil rights movement. Should BJU cancel classes? IMO, it’s not a big deal either way.

BJU didn’t cancel classes for Veteran’s Day. Maybe next year …

He discusses BJU’s (then) non-observance of MLK, Jr. Day:

http://blogs.bju.edu/pr/2014/01/20/dr-stephen-jones-remarks-to-students-on-mlk-day/

Earlier this week I saw on another web board someone commenting something to the effect that this was further evidence BJU was going downhill and/or going liberal and/or conforming to the world. One of those kind of comments.

Starting especially with Stephen Jones, over recent years BJU has been making many well needed (& in some cases WAY past due) changes. No doubt that can be disconcerting to some long-time, passionate supporters of The III and BJU. This, especially after we recently watched Northland change and lead itself into oblivion.

But, in this case, I think this is a good thing to do. I disagree with the man who posted that BJU was conforming to the world. Fundamentalism could do better at racial diversity.

As Jonathan Charles posted above, “We don’t have to celebrate all that he did, just what he did to improve the lives of Blacks in the United States of America.”

….especially given that BJ kept vestiges of Victorian racism (e.g. no interracial dating rule) until fairly recent memory—this gets them a place at the table and demonstrates real repentance.

And Veteran’s Day? Good point, but let’s call it by its original name; Armistice Day. It’s about the horrors of war and joy at it ending, and as such it really shouldn’t be yet another patriotic holiday. We have Flag Day and Independence Day for that already. Repurpose Armistice Day and Memorial Day for their original purposes of rejoicing at the end of wars and the costs of war.

Joeb,

Not celebrating MLK day is not really a gross sin, is it? Most people don’t celebrate MLK day. BJU apologized for their racial views years ago. You might be unaware of that.

You say they have a long ways to go. How and where? And what in the world does this have to do with TT? And what does it mean that there are TTS in their administration who need to confess their sin and change or leave? Who are you talking about and what is the sin?

….I don’t think that it’s a sin not to celebrate this day, but given that not everyone knows that BJ has shown signs of repentance, I think it’s important to do this. And in the case there are people there who haven’t gotten the message, the celebration will either (a) bring them to repentance or (b) make life uncomfortable for them enough to leave. For that matter, it’s better if they present him warts and all—the adulterer and associate of Communists who nonetheless managed to get Jim Crow ended without mass violence. Could end a lot of the genetic fallacies that plague our discourse in fundagelicalism. Great lesson in common grace as well, no?

What you propose is not a return to the original purposes. While 11/11 is known as Armistice\Veterans Day in the US, in the Commonwealth it is commemorated as Remembrance Day. Over the years, I’ve tried to explain the situation in the US to non-Americans.

The US commemoration of Memorial Day dates back +/- 50 years before the first Armistice\Remembrance Day of 1919. It is the day America honors those who gave their last full measure in service to our country.

Already having a Remembrance Day, 11/11 became a day to honor our living veterans.

[Bert Perry]

SNIP

And Veteran’s Day? Good point, but let’s call it by its original name; Armistice Day. It’s about the horrors of war and joy at it ending, and as such it really shouldn’t be yet another patriotic holiday. We have Flag Day and Independence Day for that already. Re-purpose Armistice Day and Memorial Day for their original purposes of rejoicing at the end of wars and the costs of war.

[Joeb]

Larry I’ll correct myself here. Racism is the gross sin. The non celebration of ML is not a sin. Now another name that shows racism is still alive and well in certain fringe Fundy churches in the South and Midwest Dr Phil Kidd Nothing more needs to be said

As far as TWISTED THINKERS (TT). still being at BJU only one name needs to be mentioned [name removed by moderator] This happened in 2010 and there were other recent incidents demonstrating TT by BJU like allowing a known sex Perp to stay on campus which resulted in rapes of two more BJU gals. Never heard of any BJU officials admitting they were wrong or punished

If what happened at BJU happened in the government or a public University the Administrators would have been immediately fired. Neither tolerates racism or coverup of sexual abuse or harassment unless TTs are involved.

Proof in the pudding BAYLOR football team. TTS the coach and Starr initially covered up gang rapes by football players. When found out the Coach was fired and Starr was demoted. By the way STARR was a Fundy/Evangelical.

This will probably removed because I call a spade a spade and believe as a Christian somethings are just plain wrong. That being said I do believe with all my heart that BJU is moving in the right direction and honoring our Lord and other Fundemental schools who have done so God is blessing.

Parents are looking to send their children to non fallen schools. My children went to public school but my wife was a stickler that they go to solid Christian Colleges. I bore the brunt of this financially to the tune of close to 300 gs so I do believe Parents are willing to bare the expense of sending their children to BJU. Although I have been known to whine about it.

Joeb,

I would like to take some time and respond to some of your statements. Please note that I am not a representative for them and I do not speak for them. I do also note(as seen in my profile, that I am a BJU Grad). If you want to talk to someone from BJU about these issues, you should call them. For my part, I prefer, as much as I can, to hear all sides of a story before making a judgement about an issue or a controversy. Sometimes a person or institution is prohibited by law from talking about or discussing any matter regarding a criminal investigation, court case, or a civil lawsuit(even as a condition of settlement in a civil case). I don’t know if that plays into the one BJU incident you mention, but it might. Bear that in mind.

Your case against BJU

1) Phil Kidd- no current BJU affiliation that I am aware of, nor any previous(not saying there isn’t, but none that I am aware of). If any connection, given the circles Phil Kidd runs in, he would probably have disowned those BJU connections. So, not relevant in any case.

2) [name removed by moderator] in 2010- I tended to lurk over at SFL when the blog was still active, commenting only very occasionally(not BJU lovers by any imagination), not mentioned over there, at least by name, possibly mentioned without using any names, in which case, I still don’t know about it. So without any evidence(e.g. Court documents, police reports, website leak, etc) hearsay. I know of only one sexual molestation case, in which the victim herself publically told her story. If these allegations that you mentioned are true, then there should be some record somewhere(If I understand correctly the term Sexual Assualt can have a broader definition than simply rape)

3) The Baylor/Starr fracas- This is Baylor, not BJU. We are talking about BJU. Not admissible unless a compelling connection.

By your acronym TT, if you are referring to Berg or Mazak, neither one of them currently hold any administrative positions(e.g. Pres, VEEP, or a Dean). Any errors they have taught, or mistakes made(and are aware of), they may well regret and have learned their lesson. In any case, I’m not going to speak for them and they are not in any position of major influence that I am aware of(I believe Berg is semi-retired).

I am not going to defend BJU where they have been/ are wrong. I’ve said that before. But so far from this post, I’m not impressed by your case.

The non celebration of ML is not a sin.

So all your comments here are irrelevant to this thread which is about MLK day. You didn’t call a spade a spade. You called a club a spade and brought up stuff that is irrelevant to this (and not even true in at least some cases).

Joeb,

This thread is about MLK day being celebrated at BJU. That’s it. Your comments are irrelevant to this topic. If you want to talk about these other issues, start another thread about that.

Regarding being wrong and being a leir, lire, etc., I didn’t call you a liar. I don’t really care about your history and your track record. That makes no difference at all to me. The point is that Phil Kidd has nothing to do with BJU and neither does Baylor. You are wrong about that, though perhaps not lying since you might simply not know any better. Ken Starr is not a fundamentalist, so you are wrong about that. I have never heard him called an evangelical, so you might be wrong about that. That’s what I mean by you called a club a spade. You misidentified some things.

The point is, Joeb, that this thread is about BJU and MLK day. Let it be about that. If you have some comments about that, make them. If you want to comment on something else, let this thread run its course and comment on the other stuff somewhere else.

[Rob Fall]

What you propose is not a return to the original purposes. While 11/11 is known as Armistice\Veterans Day in the US, in the Commonwealth it is commemorated as Remembrance Day. Over the years, I’ve tried to explain the situation in the US to non-Americans.

The US commemoration of Memorial Day dates back +/- 50 years before the first Armistice\Remembrance Day of 1919. It is the day America honors those who gave their last full measure in service to our country.

Already having a Remembrance Day, 11/11 became a day to honor our living veterans.

Bert Perry wrote: (I read it already)

OK, first of all, one of the origins of Memorial Day was when southern women decorated the graves of Union soldiers—so we would be free to argue that it is about memorializing the fallen no matter what country they fought for, no? Moreover, if Armistice Day “became” a day to honor our living veterans, then….Veteran’s Day is thus not the original purpose, is it? We can argue that honoring living veterans is appropriate, but not that it is original.

I would hope that we could agree that whichever meaning we prefer, neither day is strictly speaking a super patriotic holiday, not a time for flag waving and such, but rather a time to remember the costs and sacrifices of war, and hopefully the sacrifices made for freedom.

[Joeb]

Jeremy you proved my point. They are still employed by BJU. As I said any where else they would have been fired not transferred. Jeremey your logic does not work.

They allowed a known sex Perp who offended in the BJU High School to go to the college where he forcibly rapped two more females. In the incident in the high school the girl declined and he then forcibly sexually assaulted her and threatened her with bodily harm. Even if not reported as happened they knew this guy was bad news. These facts are not in dispute. Where is their any argument of no Untwisted thinking. The Principal of the BJU Academy is still employed not fired and all this took place during the Grace investigation. To throw insult to injury BJU College gave the Perp an academic award for being a good Criminal Justice major. GUILTY

By the way the sister of the Principal of BJU Academey has alleged that her brother said the Tina Anderson got what she deserved ie raped. The above backs that the Principal said this since this occurred on his watch.

Jeremey you sound just like the person who thought that Wendell Kempton and his minions did nothing Criminal by covering for Dr Ketchum. This flies in the face of 100s of years of US and British law

I am for BJU and even their rules just not men they have kept on staff that should have been fired. I got people fired and prosecuted I know right from wrong. You don’t have to go to the Bible when things stare you in the face. If I took a gun and shot and killed your wife you would not have to check scriptures to determine that things are wrong. It’s called UNTWISTED Thinking.

Sorry Joeb but I’m not impressed. As an aside, you lose credibility when you have said that you worked as an Investigator of a department of the US Government but don’t spell my name correctly.

Regarding the case at BJU that you talk about, if it happened during the GRACE investigation, that would be the worst of all times to cover up a rape. Not saying rapes/coverups don’t/haven’t happened. Even the Higher-ups at BJU still sin. But covering up during the Grace report would not look good for BJU.

Also, age of victim. If she’s 18 or over(don’t know her age at time of incident) and chooses not to report it, nothing can be done legally. Also, if she were under-age her parents could have chosen not to report. I don’t know if coercion regarding reporting occurred, but a Rape is a matter for a police investigation, not an in-house investigation. For BJU to “ship” the guy just because he may be a danger, is unfair and and could open them up to a lawsuit. It’s possible that their hands were/are tied. Neither one of us was there, we are in know position to know for sure. All we have are what we hear from others. That is called hearsay and is not admissible in a court of law. What forms/documents regarding this case do you have? Where can I find them? I have no wish to defend my Alma Mater if they are guilty, neither do I wish to condemn them if they are innocent. If they are guilty in this matter and have repented and made/attempted in good faith to make amends regardless of results and the law is satisfied, there’s an end to the matter. It is our duty to encourage them to do right and rejoice at their repentance.

Regarding Berg and Mazak, I do not recall, in the reading about the GRACE Report that they engaged in any cover-up, only that they, in genuinely attempting to help sexual abuse victims, practiced some unwise counseling practices. Not criminal at all, and they genuinely wanted to help these victims. At best, they may have needed to be restricted from any counseling duties until they could take some extra training or classes until they are better equipped to counsel sexual abuse victims, I don’t see at this point that those were fireable offenses.

Regarding the ACAD Principal and comments on Tina Anderson,

1) I don’t know what context those comments were made(doubtful that it could have been a good context but vaguely possible. Sounds like he was spouting off about a situation where he might not have had all the facts. The Tina Anderson case is a different matter altogether and irrelevant. She was never a student there, it took place in NH, Only connection to BJU is that the pastor at the time was/(still is?) on the Board at BJU, and was an Adjunct teacher at BJU.(I had him for a class, he taught one week out of a three-week block class, while he was personable, there was one thing he said that turned me off.)

Regarding the Kempton/Ketchum affair,

1) not BJU, so not relevant. I was born in 79 and a child in the 80’s when that was going on. I haven’t really read up much on that. I do note that willful cover-up is A. Sin, and B. Criminal. I have no evidence that on criminal cover-ups occurred at BJU. They might have, but I have no evidence. That is what is required. Negligence, ok. Cover-up,not sure.

Overall, as I said before, I’m not impressed, You haven’t yet reffered any documents to me. I have only heard Allegations and hearsay from you.