Camper dies in swing accident at Carolina Point camp

Jim? You might want to look into their lobbying efforts.

So sad to hear about the loss of a child. So far I don’t believe they’ve found the cause of the accident.

I agree with Bert, in that some of my experiences at youth camp and as the parent of a camper there was a disregard for sensible safety precuations. In some circles it’s downright sissified to be concerned about safety.

We stopped doing the youth camp thing years ago - it just wasn’t worth it. Few advantages, dozens of problems. None of us have missed it.

I’m a pragmatic member of AARP. Their discounts on travel, insurance, etc. enable me to be a better steward of my limited finances. Their discounts are much better than the ones my Christian college alumni association offers. AMAC is catching up. When they get there, I’ll switch.

[Mark_Smith]

What do you suggest? Chuck Phelps’ church rented professional tour buses (I think they rented them…they were certainly professional sized tour buses), and for whatever reason there was a major accident and we all know what happened!

Mark,granted tragedies can happen in any case. I remember a case where a number of Red Wings hockey players were severely injured when they’d rented a limo—turned out that the driver had been smoking dope and that led to tragedy. But I maintain that we can “pick our odds” by doing things like taking a quick walk around a vehicle to look at the tires, for obvious dripping fluids, and to talk with the driver. If in doubt, don’t. Same thing with adventure sports, swimming, climbing walls, whatever—there are basics that you can follow to make anything safer, or to decide you’re not going to do it at all. To draw a picture, I’d sooner ride my bicycle 100 miles to summer camp in 90 degree heat than in a 15 passenger van with worn Firestones. Change that to a 12 passenger van with Michelin LTX M/S with lots of tread, and my Trek stays at home. See the picture? You might end up doing the same thing in a few years when your daughters start dating—take a look at the vehicle the gentleman is driving before you let her go.

Let’s build on the Phelps case. Given that any vehicle—from my Trek to a semi—has at least two if not four ways of slowing the vehicle down (front, rear, emergency brakes and the “low” gears on the transmission), when you go through your 8D and “five whys”, you’re most likely going to find that the bus driver and his company either tolerated poor maintenance or speeding. Hard not to speed on I-465, I know from experience, but when you’re in a bus, you don’t have to let people push you around, no? And it is possible that a walk around that bus, or a look at the warning lights and speedometer on I-65 south of Lansing, might have identified the issue. Not guaranteed, but again; let’s take reasonable precautions.

[Mark_Smith]

This was at a Young Life camp, which is by NO MEANS a fundamentalist organization.

Young Life is a big movement with teens and college aged people. Does anyone out there have information about them other than what is on their website? Any past dealings with them?

I have attended a few meetings they have had on campus, and I can’t decide. They brought in speakers from Focus on the Family to talk about sexual issues for single adults, but they are deliberately vague on their statement of faith (ie we seek to improve the lives of all youth, etc. The name of Jesus is not overtly mentioned at all in the website, or at any meeting I went to.)

Like any other “Franchise” style para-church organization, you’ve got strong chapters and weak chapters. I’m a local church guy who’s not particularly enthralled with most parachurch ministries. That said, I know several of the state and national directors for Young Life as they attend my church. They are dedicated, evangelistic, love Jesus believers. Their camps are absolutely GORGEOUS and well maintained. We’ve been to their camps and at my former fundy church, we actually rented the facilities for our Christian school and they were fantastic. We’ve used swings like the one in this accident at their other YL camp in NC. They are “thrill rides” without a doubt, but they had staff managing it, safety precautions and a pre-use briefing on safety. Accidents, tragically, happen. Sometimes it is also a kid not paying attention or acting silly — teens do that, you know. But then again, there have been 7 shark attacks off the coast of the Carolinas this summer alone, so there’s no place that is perfectly safe. Sometimes bad stuff happens. It’s hard, sad, tragic, but it happens.

We took our family to Young Life family camps for a few years. We went on ziplines and rope courses. The ropes course was one of the most scary things I’ve ever done. There was a straight drop before being caught by the rope swing. While the rope course was scary, the staff was meticulous in safety. One person put the gear on, another one checked to make sure it was okay. When I was at the end of the rope course before the final drop/big swing, they checked one more time to make sure I was harnessed properly. Every time we went, they were very good with safety procedures.

Here’s a video of one we attended: https://vimeo.com/19223379 I’ve heard that most camps offer similar activities.
We attended a conservative non-denominational church in VA, and a group from church was very involved with the local Young Life group. A lot of teens who go to these camps are not Believers, so obviously it’s going to feel more liberal. My friends have been Young Life leaders for years and have seen lives changed as they have invested in these young students.

Ok then, it must just be my state organization, because I would CERTAINLY NOT call my state YL groups overtly evangelical. While many of the adult mentors are baptist, they are American Baptist…

It must be another case of me living in flyover country, since there are no YL camps anywhere near me.

I think you and are making HUGE MISTAKES just to save a few pennies. AARP endorses Obamacare, abortion (under the radar), right to die, etc…

Ron mentioned insurance and travel discounts. On what? You can get decent room rates on on-line websites. Insurance? Do yo mean auto insurance? I have simple State Farm, and I have yet to find a rate better…

My take is that they’re solidly evangelical—the trick with the AB pastors Mark notes is that in most of the mainline churches, there is an evangelical segment that is working hard to “nudge” the denomination back to Scriptural fidelity. 100% fundamental, no, but a great portion are our brothers and hence we will do well to pay attention. They will have some of the same habits we do.

And I hope that things really were in line here, but the lessons I’ve learned in my profession are in general that when something really bad occurs, there is a cause that we can learn from. Usually it’s something that was forseeable—like the example of worn tires on the 15 passenger van, or not wearing life vests in small craft on a moving river.

It may be different in other places. The local Young Life chapters here are extremely weak theologically and evangelistically. My daughter attended for a time, and got involved in leadership because a family friend was deeply committed to bringing it to our community. She couldn’t take it for too long. It is literally 95% fun and 5% watered down Bible story. The method is to target popular kids at school at get them attending to draw others. They often have “testimonies” from the kids they’re trying to reach, which often include praise for sin. They don’t correct them, though. It’s too judgmental. Our friends who are deep into it have mentioned their disappointment that so few have come to the Lord out of the hundreds who have passed through their meetings.

Are people saved in Young Life? I’m sure some are. For many, I fear, it’s an inoculation against the Gospel.