Bill Gothard defends himself on new website

Are we now going to have an article titled “Ten Lessons from the Bill Gothard Confession”? Or perhaps “Ten Lessons from the David Gibbs ‘Investigation’ ”? I assume there will be very few “I told you so’s” because, unlike Tchividjian, when Gothard was propagating his “theology,” few if any in IFB circles were criticizing it.

[dmyers]

Are we now going to have an article titled “Ten Lessons from the Bill Gothard Confession”? Or perhaps “Ten Lessons from the David Gibbs ‘Investigation’ ”? I assume there will be very few “I told you so’s” because, unlike Tchividjian, when Gothard was propagating his “theology,” few if any in IFB circles were criticizing it.

There is no “confession” by Gothard. Tchividjian offered part of a confession, but didn’t really need to mention his wife’s issues in it as justification.

It wasn’t an IFB that wrote the article on Tchividjian…and Gothard certainly isn’t/wasn’t an IFB phenomenon. Check your associations.

IFB’s can be bashed for lots of things, but no one if for molesting children and denying it! Not sure who Gothard thinks is going to follow him.

the late Dr. B. Myron Cedarholm, then president of Maranatha Baptist Bible College, would at least once an academic year bring a Chapel message on the dangers of Bill Gothard. Suffice to say, Dr. C was pretty rough on Mr. G.

I was a student at MBBC from 1977-1981, right in the middle of Mr. G’s “ministry.”

dmyers wrote:

I assume there will be very few “I told you so’s” because, unlike Tchividjian, when Gothard was propagating his “theology,” few if any in IFB circles were criticizing it.

There are a few things that need to be pointed out:

1. People in my generation don’t care about Bill Gothard - we don’t know who he is. I had to Google him. I didn’t grow up as a Christian, so I really don’t know who he is. This should put his ministry into perspective. However influential the man used to be, there are many, many, many, many Christian leaders (and Pastors like me) who have never heard of him and whom he has never influenced. I doubt he is worth the ink being spilled on him - he appears to be a pathetic, pitiful, dirty old man who is desperately trying to salvage something of his “ministry” in the twilight of his life. Pride never goes away, it seems. My only reaction to Gothard is, honestly, to shake my head and mutter, “What a loser …”
2. I don’t appreciate caustic comments about what people in “IFB circles” did, or didn’t do. Anybody who is a slave to a denominational (or quasi-demoninational) entity is a shallow person. I don’t care what other fundamentalists think or do. I am not responsible for them - I am responsible for myself.
3. Individual responsibility (otherwise known as soul liberty - a term I hate) is a precious truth, and it cuts both ways when it comes to contentious issues like this. It means a man is personally responsible to God for what he believes. That means he’ll be held accountable for whether he actually thinks for himself, instead of slavishly following what the “big names” tell him.

I Googled his name, and this is about the first link that appeared:

http://micahjmurray.com/bill-gothard-homeschool-cult/

“Students who grew up in the navy-and-white prisons have spoken up with their stories; more than two dozen women have come forward with allegations of sexual harassment or abuse.

People ask me what I think about it. What can you say? I grew up in a cult led by an alleged sexual predator.

Do I believe the allegations? Absolutely.

During my two years working at the Cult center after highschool, I saw a system of absolute authoritarianism – designed to protect “leaders” and silence “rebellion”. I saw an organization built on the “special insights” and the idiosyncratic whims of an old man with way too much money and power.

They say that he groomed young women, selected the vulnerable and the hurting, told them it was God’s will for them to come work for him. They say that he made them feel special. That say he took advantage of their naivety – naivety instilled through the teachings and culture he created.

I believe these stories, because I saw the edges.

When we were at the Training Center, we joked about Gothard’s “harem”. We all knew there was a certain physical “type” of woman that he liked to be close to him, working for him.

I saw him pick out young women who were obviously vulnerable and hurting – but also very attractive. I heard him promise them they’d be right at the center of the next big thing he was planning. Those plans never came to pass, but I saw the girls come and go.

I saw the double standards. We weren’t allowed to go out with other staff in mixed-company groups. We weren’t allowed to have a conversation in the lobby with female staff members. And yet he – a single old man – had long “counseling sessions” with the same young women we were forbidden from meeting. At the time, we shrugged it off. He was the leader, he was allowed to make the rules.”

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If this is even remotely factual: Yikes!

I, like Tyler, am one for whom Bill Gothard seemed to be something of an enigma, a non-entity in the circles I traveled. However, reading around a bit, what I’m finding is very interesting. There was a document from back in the 1970s about some difficulties in that organization, and one of the names struck me; Gary Smalley, who is still a fixture in Christian relationship ministries. I remember attending one of his conferences. (and was amazed his wife didn’t divorce him for some of the stunts he pulled….he came across as a grade A jerk)

Another few names of note; the Duggars and Doug Phillips of Vision Forum. So at least among viewers of “19 and counting”, many relationship ministries (which use ideas from each other rather promiscuously), and homeschoolers, Gothard’s views are alive and well, even if those holding them are not aware of where they come from. Hence it matters whether his ideas really proceed from the Gospel and the Bible, or whether they do not. You’re going to find those ideas in the most unexpected places.

And really, this is the crux of the matter; have we examined his ideas enough to figure out whether they are actually Gospel, or merely rebranded Pharisaism? Is it a requirement to homeschool? I don’t find it in the Scriptures. Are we required to wait a week after the period ends to make love to our wives? 40 or 80 days after a child is born? I don’t find any hint of that in the NT. What about dating vs. courtship?

Really, the sexual abuse allegations are just the tip of the iceberg as far as we should be concerned. For my part, I find it believeable in part because of what those not fondled have noted about his organization, as well as the earlier scandals involving his brother that had to become very public before he acted on it. But that said, the big thing in my mind is that IBLP is more or less rebranded Pharisaism, legalism.

Now I’m aware that some fundagelicals did indeed speak out regarding Gothard. Good for them. For those who knew of his work but did not speak up, maybe a gut check is in order, no? Have we too succumbed to rebranded Pharisaism?

know and that was one of Dr. Cedarholm’s criticisms.

[Jim]

Anyone know if Bill Gothard is a member of a local church? And which one?

Gothard doesn’t specifically reject the allegations. He rejects the idea that he is a harasser, but that leaves a ton of room for interpretation, specifically about what does “harasser” mean? Remember another Bill that was unclear on the definition of the linking verb in the third person? You could drive a truck through this ambiguity.

Seems to me that he needs to submit to the same kind of cross examination I’m sure David Gibbs gave to some of his accusers, including some very specific questions about what he did, or did not, do. I’m reading his statement as “I did what they accused me of but I do not consider it harassment” until he submits to a good cross examination.

Why I think he’s doing this; the testimony of the accusers falls mostly in the category of “that was creepy” but doesn’t instantly trigger our “hide the women and children” reflex. Playing footsie and inappropriate proximity seem to be his trademarks, rather than groping private areas or worse.

(link is to Recovering Grace—I encourage people to take a look at the testimonies to get a picture of some things to watch for)

It is important for pastors in fundamentalism to be aware of Gothard. Bert wrote:

Gothard’s views are alive and well, even if those holding them are not aware of where they come from.

The people who have been influenced by Gothard often gravitate to fundamental churches and the people who have brought into his teaching tend to be very dogmatic about it. The danger is that they end up spreading his false doctrine and causing division in the church. There is also the danger of subtle or even direct judgmentalism toward those who do not adapt Gothard’s teachings.

Often even after former Gothard followers have rejected Gothard, they still hold on to many of his teachings and end up causing division in the church or in their own families. I know of a young Christian couple that wants to get married and the parents are causing all kinds of problems and are trying to stop the marriage and much of it links back to Gothard ideas. I expect they will soon elope. I also know of a godly young man who had an engagement broken off and was not allowed to talk to his finance because her mother found out that he had borrowed money to buy a house. Another young lady I know was not allowed to court a godly young man because he had debt- she is now in her 30’s and still single. I also know a young lady who was personally told by Gothard that it was her fault when she was sexually abused as a child by her older brother. I know of parents who have rejected Gothard, but still hold to many of his teachings and have strained relationships with their adult children because those children do not agree that the Bible teaches what their parents learned from Gothard (the parents will often say they did not learn it from Gothard, but the point is that much of the tension lines up with ideas that come through his teachings- see Bert’s quote above).

My wife comes from a large family (oldest of 11) so they tend to know other large families and often those families are large because of the influences of Gothard’s teaching. That may be why we have been exposed to it more than others have. Gothard followers are very similar to the KJO advocates who think that all others have compromised and only they have the truth. It is cult like in that respect and it can also lead to a lot of division in the church if you have a Gothard influenced family that thinks the rest of the church is compromising because they are not set apart according to the Gothard standard.

Christians are to be set apart from the world, but the Gothardites tend to be some of the most worldly people I have met when you look at the Biblical standard for worldliness rather than Gothard’s standard.

[JD Miller]

Christians are to be set apart from the world, but the Gothardites tend to be some of the most worldly people I have met when you look at the Biblical standard for worldliness rather than Gothard’s standard.

JD, would love to hear what you mean by this. Are you talking about “worldly” in light of judgmentalism and externally imposed rules, or are you talking about something else here? I would almost suggest, in light of the sins we’re discussing here, suggest that the “lawfulness” of Gothardism may in part have led to his sin, but really I’d like to hear you out on this.

Bert, what I meant was that for the Gothardite, the idea of holiness is often rooted in how closely they follow an external standard, yet when you look at the fruits of the Spirit found in Galatians 5, joy and peace are often missing. Then you look at the works of the flesh: enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, and envying are all too common.

Legalism and lawlessness are more alike than we realize. Both replace God’s standard with man’s. Legalism is an extrabiblical standard made by man. Lawlessness is man setting himself up to decide what his standard will be without regard for what God has said. Both set God aside in favor of man.

I fear the danger that often happens in the Gothard like settings is that people start to become proud of the fact that they are so set apart from everyone else that it is easy to think that this makes them special. There is then the danger of thinking that their Christian lives are okay because they have conformed to the standard, but if they do not continue to grow and mature, that pride can end up hardening their hearts to the areas of their life that really need to change. I think we all struggle with this, but the Gothard teachings only compound the problem.

“Legalism and lawlessness are more alike than we realize. Both replace God’s standard with man’s. Legalism is an extrabiblical standard made by man. Lawlessness is man setting himself up to decide what his standard will be without regard for what God has said. Both set God aside in favor of man. ” - JD Miller

My wife is the baby of 8 children whose father was an evangelist. When my wife was a teenager her parents went to a Gothard seminar and bought the Gothard line completely. The result of that was that when I asked her dad for his permission to marry her he refused me. He did as much as he could possibly do to stop our wedding, even to the point where we had to change the location we had planned for our wedding (the chapel at NBBC/NIU). When we chose another place, he wrote to that church’s pastor protesting our wedding but was unsuccessful.

He also kept, by intimidation, 2 of my wife’s childhood friends from being part of the wedding party.

As a result of Gothard’s influence, none of my wife’s siblings or their families attended our wedding. A few months after we were married all of the siblings were together for their parents anniversary. My father-in-law dis-invited my wife and I from the family dinner on that Sunday.

As you can probably guess, I don’t think very highly of Gothard!

JohnBrian, your post reminds me why I am skeptical when I hear of a child that has gone bad. I have heard of too many instances where the child has never renounced their Christianity, remained a virgin until marriage, faithfully attends church, but has “gone bad” because they do not believe just like their parents believe. We as fellow Christians need to have the courage to rebuke such parents. From what I have seen in the Gothard movement, I doubt your account is an isolated incident.