Forbes: Mars Hill "The Enron Of American Churches," Driscoll "the toxic leader du jour"

[dcbii]

Actually, in my case, I don’t particularly care if *his* ministry endures, but I would like his *ministry* to endure. Like others have expressed about the church at Hammond, I would prefer to see the church clean house in the right way, and get the right man for the job, rather than collapsing completely and starting over. In this case, I’ll admit to having a dog in the race, because I have family in one of his satellite churches. I’ve been to precisely one service where he preached, and while I didn’t care for the “grunge”-style music, I thought that particular sermon was dead on. I think there are a number of true believers in his church, and I hope the church can eventually head the right direction. Maybe it can’t, but I’m not going to hope against it.

From what I understand, in some parts of the greater Seattle area, the choices (not including cults and apostate churches), if you don’t want to drive 45 minutes each way, are often between extreme KJVO or broader evangelical (i.e. broader than Driscoll). If some of those Mars Hill campuses can be turned around, they will still be a better choice than much of what is available.

I think that part of the reason why he is/was so popular is because he presented Christianity as something other than childish or weak. There is very much an element of “manly Christianity”, of saying it like it is, and calling a spade a spade that, frankly, has been refreshing to hear from what little I have seen, and I think that’s where some of his popularity grew - because people are tired of ‘gentle Jesus, meek and mild’, and they wanted something stronger, and more war-like (again, for lack of a better term).

[Jay]

I think that part of the reason why he is/was so popular is because he presented Christianity as something other than childish or weak. There is very much an element of “manly Christianity”, of saying it like it is, and calling a spade a spade that, frankly, has been refreshing to hear from what little I have seen, and I think that’s where some of his popularity grew - because people are tired of ‘gentle Jesus, meek and mild’, and they wanted something stronger, and more war-like (again, for lack of a better term).

I can certainly buy that. In the sermon I heard, he certainly didn’t shy away from calling out sin, and he was in no way wishy-washy about bringing scripture to bear or goring a few oxen. Whatever his faults, he certainly didn’t seem interested in preaching to “itchy ears.” But that’s anecdotal, and just one sermon.

dcbii, one might posit that Driscoll is catering, to a degree, to the itchy ears of those who are in the men’s rights movement, although in his defense, he’s infuriated them at times, too.

But that said, if indeed he’s committed sins worthy of removing a pastor for at least a time, and I tend to agree with that assessment, the thing that comes to mind for me is that when (Lord willing) Driscoll repents, six short weeks is not enough time to demonstrate that he’s turned over a new leaf. And six months will have Mars Hill on the ropes. It’s a really ugly situation. Like others, I don’t want the good results of that ministry to be destroyed, but I really don’t see much of a a way around the reality that Mars Hill really exists in terms of Mark Driscoll. He suffers, they suffer. Same thing with a LOT of megachurches.

to get TO a MH church - reference the local paper that quoted members driving to the Tacoma branch from Kent (a good 30 minutes even on Sunday morning). My husband has a long commute so yes, we are VERY thankful our little congregation is here in our area. BTW we are NOT KJVO, nor broadly evangelical. Having to meet in facilities rented from the SDA is part of our struggle and lack of visibility but we are a struggling congregation of under 75. It might take some looking but there are sound, “not weird” :) churches in the area.

[ChristyM]

to get TO a MH church - reference the local paper that quoted members driving to the Tacoma branch from Kent (a good 30 minutes even on Sunday morning). My husband has a long commute so yes, we are VERY thankful our little congregation is here in our area. BTW we are NOT KJVO, nor broadly evangelical. Having to meet in facilities rented from the SDA is part of our struggle and lack of visibility but we are a struggling congregation of under 75. It might take some looking but there are sound, “not weird” churches in the area.

Glad to hear it! I don’t live there, so while I have visited the area, my experience is mostly 2nd hand. I figured there might be some good congregations somewhere. Sometimes you have to know the right people to ask, though! When my wife and I were first married, we did the “try out” thing when moving to a new area, and it often took a while to find and settle on something that wasn’t “weird.” The internet certainly makes that task of searching easier, but often the character and ambience of a church can’t be known very well without visiting, and I have found it’s much easier to visit after a recommendation.

(And yes, I don’t doubt there are people that travel a long ways to get to a MH church. Some people are looking for that just as much as some of us are looking for something else!)

Our experience in western Wa. Is as described above. KJVONLY only and all the fixins

Now the thread is really drifting.

Yes there are a lot of kjv only style churches here. Personally, if my choice was kjv only and Mars Hill type churches, I would choose the kjv only one.

Fortunately there are some good churches that are neither of the above. I’m pretty sure I know the church ChristyM refers to above, there are others. Anyone interested in connecting with some of the better churches in the NW should attend our annual regional FBFI fellowship. I think we will be in Wenatchee next March, although plans are as yet not finalized.

And for the few readers across the border, there are a few good churches in BC as well.

was selected partly for “walkability” - most everything we truly need is within walking distance if gas gets crazy expensive(r). Exception was church. I said in a pinch the SBC church was on the same bus line. DH said if absolutely necessary we COULD walk to the KVJO church. I said no I could not.

are in the Fair City if that helps pinpoint our location :)

But why on Earth would anyone voluntarily set foot in a KJVO church and all it’s accompanying doctrinal problems over a more “liberal” (read: Cons. Evangelical type) church? That idea strikes me as very weird. I’d take deviations in praxis over deviations in doctrine anyday, myself.

But really, I will take a Hyper-inspiration view before a Deficient inspiration view every time.

Christy, your hint confirms my surmises.

Haven’t been following the story, so I don’t know if this is old news or not, but fyi…

Memo: Mars Hill Church Staff Worried That Real Marriage Campaign Would Benefit Mark Driscoll More Than Church

Aaron, ugh. Sounds like a lot more of P.T. Barnum than the apostle Paul, to put it mildly. I know that “the world” probably pulls these tricks to “juice” a book’s placement on the NYT list, but people in the church? Ugh.