PCC denies "allegations"

I feel for PCC because:

• There are disillusioned fundy youth who are attacking the schools (BJU seems to be target #1) (I presume they are either grads or drop outs but not sure)
• And the Internet is indeed a channel from which unsubstantiated attacks may be launched
• And, putting on the PCC admin “hat”, “what is a school to do?” They probably do not have a robust media relations department (if at all)

Get G.R.A.C.E. in here to get to the bottom of it since they are the only trustworthy entity on this side of the universe. Then when PCC fires their b**t for whatever reason that will conclusively prove PCC’s guilt. Case closed. Next!!

There are disillusioned fundy youth who are attacking the schools (BJU seems to be target #1) (I presume they are either grads or drop outs but not sure)

Jim,

If it was your daughter who was raped there while attending college, would you be calling her a disillusioned fundy youth attacking the school?

I’m quite stunned at your very uncharitable response.

~ja

then the victims need to go immediately to the police. Even now. So far I haven’t heard of anyone going to the police and any criminal charges being made. I don’t care if the school told the girls not to go to the police. You go to the hospital to let them check you for abuse and to call the police or go to the police and then the hospital. We have cases of women in town here who have claimed to be raped and after a thorough investigation we hear on the news later that it was a made of story. I don’t know if these claims are made up or not, but we need more than just a bunch of internet talk.

Michelle,

The reality is that there are court cases that are either in the process and/or have been completed in some of these situations. I know of one specifically regarding a student at Bob Jones where the student did report her rapist (ON HER OWN against the advice of counseling she had received) and her rapist was convicted and is now serving time in prison. Just because you don’t know of the court cases doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Rape and/or sexual abuse is deeply personal and it is exceedingly cruel to demand victims open themselves up to public scrutiny just to prove that they are legit victims.

And, Jim,

I hope you realize how deeply hurtful and offensive your comments are to victims who have survived unspeakable trauma. You are insinuating that if they are good Christian kids who follow the rules and want to do the right thing, that they would never be hurt. Your comment about them being disillusioned fundies or college drop-outs is deeply disrespectful. What if you were a spiritual leader on campus and deeply love the Lord and graduated with honors? Is it possible for someone like that to also be upset when the Christian University that they trusted and respected failed them in regards to their abuse?

Michelle:
What you suggested is very appropriate. However, a rape victim is often not in the right fame of mind to make such a choice. Imagine the emotional turmoil a young lady would feel after being raped - -especially living in a culture that idolizes purity. She would feel like she was damaged goods - could never measure up. Do you really think a rape victim would spontaneously go to police or faculty or even her parents to disclose such a thing? Have you ever worked with a rape victim before?

All we have is anecdotes, and “I know a person who…”. Like Michelle said, GO TO THE POLICE. Rape victims must do that or else there is no evidence of the crime. It is then too easy to dismiss or be concerned that it is a “false” charge.

Let me also say this about purity, RAPE ( I almost said “legitimate rape”…but that didn’t go over so well before for a certain politician) has nothing to do with purity. It is a crime. Any “leader” who suggests otherwise should be immediately removed from their position.

I have debated saying this as well, but I really want to. One of the linked articles mentions a man who was supposedly gang raped in an all-male dorm. I can say that as a man, a Marine Corps veteran, if that happened to me, and I was alive afterwards, and I knew who did it…well let’s just say I’d probably spend the rest of my life in jail for murder. At the least, I would pursue them VIGOROUSLY in the legal system, not whine on a website. But, I think that the legal system would not satisfy my sense of justice. Just being honest…

I was a Criminal Investigator with the Military Police for 10 years:

• Rape victims need to go to the police
• They don’t need to go to college officials (university setting)
• They don’t need to go to “campus security”
• They don’t need to go to their Leading Petty Officer (military setting)
• They can, and should, go to their Pastor after they go to the police. Goodness, the Pastor can sit at the station with you and wait while you’re interviewed!
• They need to go to the police
• If you wait and decide to address it months or years later, the suspect will likely not be brought to justice
• Internet allegations are useless - go to the police

I say this with all love and sincerity. Until something more concrete comes up, I’ll remain skeptical about a peace referred by Darrel Dow and the folks at stufffundieslike.com.

Let me further say this. First, I have no connection to BJU, or any other fundamental Baptist university. But, the allegation has been repeatedly asserted that BJU counsels students who come forward with rape allegations to forgive the perpetrator and not report the crime. If this is true as presented, IT MUST IMMEDIATELY STOP. While there is a place for forgiveness, of course, that instant in time is not it. Report the crime TO THE POLICE. Get the legal system involved and follow up thoroughly with the legal system. Once it is going, then we can talk forgiveness. But the victim needs to be supported AND the violator needs to be removed. ONLY THE LEGAL SYSTEM has the resources and authority to determine whether the allegation is legitimate. I appreciate that Paul mentions Christians not taking one another to court, but felonies like rape are not what he is talking about. BJU must immediately stop this practice, if it is true. Any other school must do the same. If doing so ruins the school…well then honestly the school needed to close.

Hi all,

It is important to remember that these horrible crimes do happen. Remember this World Magazine article? http://www.worldmag.com/2013/10/the_high_cost_of_negligence I do not know if these events are true, and I hope they are not. But I did say in another thread, when I entered the ministry 20 years ago, the unwritten rule was not to report these things. I HOPE that has changed. For a long time, the attitude was to blame the victim. I don’t want everyone the relive the New Hampshire case (I really don’t want Tina or her family to relive it), but remember Ernie Willis was convicted of forcible rape, and many did not believe her.

Michelle,

A false accusation is horrible. But just so you know, according to the FBI, a false accusation is rare.

1. While the FBI may say false accusations are rare, they do happen. ie: the one at Duke a few years ago, the basketball coach in the NE who was later cleared when the accuser came back and said he was angry about something else and made up the charges, and at least two cases here in Greenville where the women were later charged with filing a false police report.

2. I don’t believe everything I read or hear. The only thing I believe 100% of is Scripture. Anything else is subject to Biblical, legal, and common sense scrutiny and without evidence I can’t believe everything.

3. These crimes are horrible and must be punished. Our system doesn’t do enough to punish criminals any more. We are much too soft.

4. Real victims have suffered horribly and must be counseled, prayed for, and encouraged accordingly. Bitterness and anger are never justified scripturally and never solves any problems. If bitterness and anger helped, then I should be dwelling in bitterness and anger over an event that occurred 10 years ago this October in my own life. I refuse. I figure God is in control, He allowed it, and He can take care of the wrongs done. I’ll go on rejoicing in Him.

5. God will ultimately judge both sides and take of the wrongs.

Meanwhile, I’ll go back to watching, waiting, and making these issues a matter of prayer. I don’t want to see Satan or criminals ever get the victory.

The biggest issue I have with this recently reported situation is that PCC is AUTOMATICALLY assumed guilty… whether of callousness or of intentional cover up. Some have even speculated that PCC used its political clout in Pensacola to cover up these stories in the media. Even if people investigate and find these stories were fabricated or exaggerated, PCC will still be guilty in the eyes of many.

The second issue I have is that the outrage is entirely focused on PCC and not the actual RAPIST(S)!?!? In one story the rapist is purportedly now a pastor. Where’s the outrage against this pastor? Why hasn’t he been publicly outed and prosecuted? Why go after PCC and not the rapist(s)?

I understand the power that comes from finally admitting - whether in a private counseling session or on the internet - that what happened to a person in any abuse setting (rape, sexual abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse, abuse by authority figures, etc) is actually what it was. Not a ‘mistake’, not an ‘accident’, not an ‘incident’ - it was __________. I know that is an important step to acknowledge that what happened to a person was wrong and a crime. I’ve seen it with some people, and I encourage victims to say that what happened to them was indeed what some others quickly and rightly define, and that it was not their fault.

That being said, I really, really, really am skeptical about the good that comes from sites like the “IFB Cult Survivors” groups (and their ilk). Many times they seem to be fixated on the fact that they were victims (not that they were abused, but they were victimized) and that is where the survivor stays at for as long as they remain in the group. It’s a downright toxic environment that breeds despair, fear, mistrust of authorities (especially men and the ‘patriarchy’), and ruins a relationship with God, who is ultimately to blame for whatever thing happened. I’ve read more than my share of those groups and their newsletters / email chains / blogs / etc, and I come out of it wondering how on earth those people will ever cope with the fact of their abuse in any way other than a bitter, angry spirit that corrodes relationships with everyone else and especially God.

Joseph’s life is the perfect illustration. He was slandered, imprisoned, sold by his brothers as a slave, freed, then accused of rape by one of the most powerful women in Egypt, imprisoned again falsely, freed another man (who promptly forgot about him for another 2 years), and finally was restored after working his tail off for godless pagans. Then when his brothers came back, he forgave them freely and told them that God meant all of that for good (just as Paul reaffirms in Romans 8).

Which example seems like the one that Christians should emulate? Which one brings glory to God? The important first step is to acknowledge it. The second, even more important step, is learning to live with it without succumbing to it. The final and critical step is forgiving others their trespass against us, since God has forgiven us our trespasses (Matthew 6:12).

My comments earlier were not about this particular case. I have no idea. If these people were raped, then those who committed the crime should be prosecuted. If anyone impeded the investigation, they to should be prosecuted.

My issue is this. We, as Christian leaders in general, have been slow do deal with these issues. I have first hand knowledge of this. I have seen it done. The attitude “we have to protect the ministry.” That is a sinful response and has to stop. We should always first be concerned with the victim. Michelle mentioned bitterness. One reason why some victims show bitterness is because those to whom they have gone, were more interested in keeping things quiet, than helping the victim.

By the way, I have not been to stuff fundies like in a while, so I have no idea with what is there.

Jay,

I guess my thought is this. We need to deal with the our end (the leadership end) in how we handle this first. That is the issue we have neglected. I am not saying your point is not valid, but it really should not be our first priority. Our first priority is deal with the false view of leaders and that will go along way in to preventing some of the bitterness.