The Fundamentalist Challenge for the 21st Century: Do We Have a Future? Part 4

The following is a portion of a paper Dr. Straub read at the Bible Faculty Leadership Summit last summer (he also read a variation at the Conference on the Church for God’s Glory last May). It appears here with light editing. See Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3. -Editor

So what of the future for fundamentalism? Is there hope? (cont.)

3. A more theological view of separation

Third, I think we need to work toward better approach to separation. Our practice is often weak and sloppy. This is because our thinking is weak and sloppy. We don’t read widely or think deeply about much of anything. Theological reflection is rare among us. We want simple answers to complex questions.

This sloppiness may be seen in the way we practice separation. It is often harsh and inconsistent. It lacks thoughtful reflection and purposeful expression. But we are not alone in our weak view of separation. I think evangelicals are also weak in this area. They actually do practice secondary separation but they do so inconsistently.

When I was at Southern (2000-2004), I remember a conversation with Craig Blaising, now provost at Southwestern Baptist Seminary in Ft. Worth, TX. He rejected the notion of secondary separation and belittled it. Yet as I took my classes, it was clear that many Southern men actually did hold to secondary separation. Bruce Ware, Blaising’s close colleague in the graduate school, led the unsuccessful effort in ETS to oust Clark Pinnock and John Sanders, for open theism—the hyper-Arminian view of God. The unsuccessful efforts at the November 2003 meeting in Atlanta, in which the membership of Pinnock and Sanders was sustained because of an insufficient number of affirmative votes, demonstrate that Ware argued for a de facto secondary separation. I had occasion to sit with Pinnock and converse with him. I found him to be affable and courteous. He professed to be a believer and he affirmed inerrancy. Yet his theology is considered by many to be outside the acceptable bounds of Christian orthodoxy. Many, apparently, concurred, but the vote to remove him did not carry by the requisite 2/3 majority. In Sander’s case, the vote was closer—less than 25 votes were lacking. Though more than 50% of the membership wanted to oust him, his membership was not overturned.

I must also mention a presentation from the 2008 Shepherd’s Conference by Nathan Busenitz, an elder of Grace Community Church and John MacArthur’s personal assistant. Busenitz presented the doctrinal understanding of secondary separation held by the elders at Grace. I found much in the message with which I could agree. According to Busenitz, Grace would not affiliate with those who undermine the Gospel. However, I think he failed to grasp clearly is the true nature of so-called secondary separation, which he identified as separation from those who do not practice primary separation. Secondary separation is not simply a matter of separation over separation, but separation because of disobedience to the clear teaching of the Scripture. He argued that when practicing this secondary position one needs great wisdom in deciding what brother to work with and what brothers to break with. Many fundamentalists would agree. Bob Jones Sr. was fond of saying that “you go as far as you can on the right road,” which I heard occasionally applied to those in error. Work with a man if he seems to be going the right way. Where he is at positionally is less important than where his feet are pointed.

To be sure, many parts of fundamentalism have been hasty and ungodly in the quest for “purity.” We have spoken harshly without due care and attention and often before all the facts are in. Often we have not carefully weighed the facts. It seems to me that as we evaluate where a man stands and what direction his feet are pointed, we need to think of four levels of disobedience. Although they may all involve real disobedience to the Scripture, our response to them should differ in severity. Is the behavior flagrant, careless, ignorant or pragmatic? The answer will guide us in our response to the behavior.

Four levels of disobedience

Let’s take speeding as a mundane analogy. Speeders fit into these same four categories. There is the flagrant speeder. He has a radar detector in his windshield and a wanton disregard of the law in his heart. He speeds for pleasure or to escape the consequences of some other unlawful act. The common denominator of this type of speeder is contempt for the law. A second type of speeder is simply careless. He is driving along in his own world not paying attention, just doing what he wishes. He doesn’t worry too much about the law, only about what others are doing around him. Police love to stop these careless speeders; they are breaking the law. But they often choose to be lenient and let the speeder off with a warning.

A third kind of speeder is the ignorant speeder. This is a guy who for any number of legitimate reasons may not know what the posted speed limit is and breaks the law accidentally. He is still guilty, but if he can prove that the signage is ambiguous or obscured by brush or some other legitimate reason for ignorance, he might just beat the rap. The last speeder is the pragmatist—the end justifies the means. He’s got a wife in labor or is carrying someone else to the hospital. He has a “good reason” to drive fast and he hopes the cop, if he stops him, will understand. I can tell you though, from four years of driving an ambulance professionally, if you speed and cause an accident, you will be held liable. We were reminded repeatedly that, while we did not legally have permission to speed, most of the time the police would understand that we were on a life-or-death mission and would not interfere. However, if we caused an accident and someone was injured or worse, we would be in serious trouble. We could usually speed without fear of a ticket, but if we caused an accident, we would be in serious trouble.

Apply this to separation. There are some individuals who flagrantly violate the Word. They have an agenda and the Bible gets in the way. Or they think that separatism is just “someone’s narrow interpretation” and refuse to consider seriously the Bible.

Other believers are ignorant or careless in their associations. They have never been taught nor have they ever thought through the issues carefully. Or they may simply not appreciate the depth of disobedience the professing individual is involved in and they fail to separate out of ignorance. It is, to some extent, understandable.

Finally, there are those who think pragmatically. It’s almost a “greater good” defense in associations. Look at how much good Rev. So-and-so does. We cannot separate from him. It will hurt the cause. It is interesting that on the cusp of the fundamentalist-modernist controversy, when the battle lines were just being drawn, Shailer Mathews, infamous liberal dean of the University of Chicago Divinity School, was president of the Northern Baptist Convention. He had a banner made for the platform which read, “Let’s get together by working together and praying together.” Working together to promote denominational efforts was more important than the theological issues that divided the Northern Baptists1. Clearly there are levels of disobedience among us all and our response to varying levels of disobedience ought to be carefully measured. It seems to me that we should treat the violations of Scripture in different ways depending on who and what is at stake. This is not to say that, in the end, we don’t separate. But we ought to be slow to break fellowship in some of these cases to give time for instruction and interaction.

Busenitz has a legitimate complaint of separatists in criticizing the way many fundamentalists practice it. Drawing a comparison with church discipline, separatism—he opines—often omits the issue of restoration. Fundamentalists give little thought, if any, to how to restore a wayward brother. While this is undoubtedly true in many cases, we should at least consider a comparison of primary and secondary separation on the point. In primary separation, our motive of withdrawing from false doctrine has less to do with restoration of the errant individual and more to do with protecting our own flock. Why would it be right to protect our flock from false religion and not protect it from serious disobedience?2 Still, restoration is important. Separatists often seem pleased to separate rather than grieved. Frankly, I never once enjoyed disciplining a child and I sure didn’t enjoy having to speak to a wayward church member. How can I treat a fellow believer with any less concern?

At the 2009 Shepherd’s Conference, hosted by the Grace Community Church, Phil Johnson gave what I think was a great response to Mark Driscoll and company’s recent penchant for sexually explicit sermonizing.3 Without actually calling for a breach in fellowship (secondary separation), Johnson loudly lamented of the “pornification of the pulpit,” arguing for an implied separation. He finds Seattle pastor Mark Driscoll’s behavior severely objectionable, and, I presume, if his effort to call Driscoll to repentance were to be unsuccessful he would consider Driscoll a disobedient brother. Surely he would not publicly rebuke him and then make common cause with him as though there was nothing amiss with his behavior. It seems clear that Johnson was arguing for action that would either pressure Driscoll to repent of his indiscreet pulpit work or withdrawal fellowship.4 This implied separation was further supported as recently as mid-April, when John MacArthur wrote a four-part blog entry for Pulpit Magazine website, entitled “The Rape of Solomon’s Song.”5 MacArthur compared the seriousness of Driscoll’s behavior to Spurgeon’s battles in the 19th-century Downgrade Controversy. “It is past time for the issue to be dealt with publicly.” He also questioned other evangelicals trying to correct Driscoll’s misconduct conduct through mentoring.

It seriously overstates the involvement of John Piper and C. J. Mahaney to say they are “discipling” Mark Driscoll. In the first place, the idea that a grown man already in public ministry and constantly in the national spotlight needs space to be “mentored” before it’s fair to subject his public actions to biblical scrutiny seems to put the whole process backward. These problems have been talked about in both public and private contexts for at least three or four years. At some point the plea that this is a maturity issue and Mark Driscoll just needs time to mature wears thin. In the meantime, the media is having a field day writing stories that suggest trashy talk is one of the hallmarks of the “New Calvinism;” and countless students whom I love and am personally acquainted with are being led into similar carnal behavior by imitating Mark Driscoll’s speech and lifestyle. Enough is enough.6

Again this is the evangelical right, but given the desire on the part of new-image fundamentalists for a closer identity with the evangelical right, I would assume that they would not object to MacArthur’s position.7 I would presume that in their desire to move closer to the right wing of evangelicalism, they would not object to the de facto secondary separation taking place, at least where Driscoll is concerned. The case of Mark Driscoll is especially pertinent. Driscoll is an orthodox believer, or so he claims. He holds a high view of Scripture, is a new Calvinist, a complementarian, etc. The issue with Driscoll is not theology but practice. It is this praxis that is called into question. The statements by Johnson and MacArthur are calls for public censure and ultimately calls to withdraw fellowship if the censures go unheeded. How could anyone censure Driscoll so severely and then make common cause with him? What kind of confusing message would it send if it were otherwise?

I want to believe that John Piper and C. J. Mahaney also reject the “pornification” of the pulpit, but neither man has been willing to publically rebuke Driscoll. I hope that Don Carson and Danny Akin are repulsed by Driscoll’s worldly interpretation of the Song of Solomon and his frank public conversations about sex. Perhaps I am wrong. Maybe Johnson and MacArthur alone feel the way they do, but I hope not.

What will MacArthur do? He obviously feels very strongly about Driscoll’s behavior and likewise about the non-action of Piper and Mahaney. What does Grace do after it takes such a strong stand against Driscoll? Will it make common cause with supporters of Driscoll? Won’t that ultimately mute MacArthur’s objections? For a consistent fundamentalist, the answer is yes. Driscoll’s behavior is egregious. Failure to rebuke him amounts to disobedience and warrants censure, as do those who become complicit in his behavior by failing to call him to account. With MacArthur on Driscoll, we are in whole-hearted agreement. The question remains—what if Driscoll rejects the criticism? MacArthur identified his worldliness—his grunge Christianity—in 2006 and that went unheeded. Things have only gotten worse. Will MacArthur reach a point where something more must be done? And what if Piper, Mahaney, Carson, et al fail to act? Will their non-action be seen as tacit approval? What recourse does someone have who sees this issue as one of testimony for the cause of Christ? Must one simply “grin and bear it?” It all comes down to consistency—the bane of us all!

If we understand separation in the context of church discipline, we have a clearer picture of what is to happen. I think that too many evangelicals and fundamentalists hang separatism in thin air without carefully grounding it in church discipline. Church discipline is the action of the church whereby it maintains its distinctive testimony by identifying and addressing certain censorious behavior in its members, calling for repentance. If repentance is not forthcoming, the church is mandated to censure the professing believer by publicly noting the behavior and withdrawing corporate fellowship. The goal is to maintain a clear public witness for the church, identify unbiblical behavior in the membership and warn the saints of consequences of sin.

In the same way, separation is designed to protect the larger Christian witness—the universal church. One believer or a group of believers, not necessarily in organic fellowship through a local church, nevertheless are called upon to censure egregious public behavior that violates clear biblical instruction. For example, Paul tells Titus what to do with a schismatic person: “have nothing to do with him” (Tit 3:10). Secondary separation addresses the behavior of a person outside the local assembly. To suggest that we can break fellowship with some in the context of a church that we have no mandate to disfellowship outside the church seems an odd approach to the Bible.

Levels of fellowship and disassociation

There are levels of fellowship and levels of disassociation. I can drink coffee with most anyone—lost or saved. I cannot have fellowship with an unbeliever—“what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness?” (2 Cor 6:14) The closer our relationship becomes, the greater the doctrinal agreement required. I can have good general fellowship with many kinds of believers at a table or across the fence in the neighborhood, but as a pastor, I cannot bring my church into a church-planting relationship with other churches who do not share my understanding of what a church is.

There are also levels of disassociation. I may choose not to work with someone for any number of reasons ranging from matters of practicality to matters of disobedience. Some forms of disassociation are simply issues of impracticality: I cannot work with an individual because he does not “fit” our program or schedule. In my opinion, these we ought to minimize and seek to work together for the greater good of God’s glory wherever possible. But in other cases, such cooperation brings doctrinal confusion. For instance, how could John MacArthur have a meaningful working relationship with Mark Driscoll unless and until Driscoll repudiates his conduct or MacArthur retracts his criticism? It seems like some form of separatism is likely to occur, even if that was not the intended outcome at the start. This is what secondary separation comes down to. It does not mean that we treat these brothers as lost but that we mark their behavior and disassociate for the greater witness of the Church.

4. A spirit of true humility

Finally, if we are to have a future, fundamentalists need to learn biblical humility. This is something we don’t talk about much. On the contrary, we see someone who acts in humility as weak or indecisive. We want men who will make stronger decisions and take decisive action. But the action needs to be expressed carefully, considering ourselves. The spirit of Galatians 6:1 ought to guide us in this: “Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.” Separation is the last course of action, not the first. It is the final resort for serious disobedience. Unity ought to characterize us, not separation. Yet it is most often what we are known for. Instead of “Together for the Gospel” we could call some of our conferences “Alone with My Agenda.” “There are only two of us left standing, and I am worried about you!” God deliver us from an Elijah complex. He thought he was the last man standing, when in fact there were 7,000 who had not bent their knees to Baal (1 Kings 19:9-18).

Now I will not tell you how to be humble. To learn humility take a long look into the Word of God. We offer no course in humility at Central Seminary. In most cases, humility is caught, not taught. I think this is one reason why it is so scarce in our movement. There are few men who model it and hence few to teach it. I also think this is one reason why our young men seek role models elsewhere. They fail to find serious Christians in fundamentalism so they look elsewhere. I know a man who is a model of this seriousness. He is a Southern Baptist. He is not a separatist. But he is a godly man. I praised him to a fundamentalist friend as a great professor. He had a fine combination of personal godliness and scholarly erudition. To this my friend balked. How could a Southern Baptist who was “disobedient” to separatism, as he defined it, be godly? Boy if that wasn’t an arrogant thought. He might as well have said, “If you don’t come to my conclusions, you are stupid!” Paul said I am what I am by the grace of God (1 Cor. 15:10). What do we have that we did not receive? Where would we be today apart from divine grace? Perhaps manifesting a little of the grace given to us by God might be a better way to hold our theological apartness. We need a Christ-like disposition as we hold to a biblical position.

So, does fundamentalism have a future? Some days I wonder. At times, I am not too hopeful. Then I go to class. What a privilege to work with the next generation of men committed to following Christ and proclaiming His Word. Where will they end up? Where will my son end up?

Notes

1. See Shailer Mathews, New Faith for Old (New York: MacMillan, 1936), p. 136.

2. For the full message see Nathan Busenitz, “The Dividing Line: Where We Draw the Line on Biblical Separation,” Shepherd’s Conference 2008, 7 March 2008. Available online here. Accessed 25 April 2009. You will have to register to get the free download.

3. If you are unfamiliar with the emerging church, see Jeffrey P. Straub, “The Emerging Church: A Fundamentalist Assessment” DBSJ 2008: 69-91.

4. Johnson’s message, “Be Careful What You Say,” preached 6 March 2009, may be downloaded free of charge at shepherdsfellowship.org.

5. See John MacArthur, “The Rape of Solomon’s Song,” Pulpit Magazine, 4 parts, posted 14 April - 17 April 2009. Available online here. Accessed 23 April 2009.

6. John MacArthur, “The Rape of Solomon’s Song,” Part 4. Available online here. Accessed 23 April 2009. At least one blogger sees this as evidence of MacArthur’s “fightin fundy turn.” See Art Boulet, “Mark Driscoll: a rapist?” Available online here. Accessed 27 April 27, 2009.

7. This emerging middle, as some new image men have called themselves, is defined as “the rapprochement of biblically-grounded, historical centers of two hitherto unconnected orbits of Christian fellowship: the ‘fundamentalist’ orb and the ‘evangelical’ orb.” Bob Bixby, “The Emerging Middle” Pensees 4 August 2007. Available online here. Accessed 23 August 2009.


Dr. Jeffrey Straub has served as adjunct professor at Central Seminary, as well as at Calvary Baptist Seminary in Moscow, the Ukraine, and Romania, at Piedmont Baptist College, and at LIFTS Institute, Kitchener, Ontario. He has been a senior pastor and church planter in Canada, and was a missionary among the Ojibway Indians in Wanipigow, Manitoba. He has had several articles published in the Detroit Baptist Seminary Journal, as well as in Frontline. Dr. Straub is a member of the Evangelical Missiological Society, the Evangelical Theological Society, and the American Society of Church History. Dr. Straub is married to Rebecca, and they have 3 children. He enjoys books, golf, hunting, and fishing.

Discussion

Susan & dmicah,

Susan brings up a valid point and a distinction that needs to be made. Certainly the Bible refers to “R-rated” events (cutting up of the concubine, beheading of Goliath) and even X-rated events (adultery with Bathsheba), but those references, in and of themselves, are not R-rated or X-rated.

For example, I recently watched an old Bonanza TV episode with my children. In one scene, Hos was in the saloon with one of the dancing girls. He was trying to explain to his dimwitted friend that the saloon girl didn’t really care about him, it was simply her job to “entertain” male guests. There was no explicit visible or verbal reference to sex at all, but of course we understand what the subtlety was alluding to. The scene, in a sense, referred to an x-rated event but the reference itself was PG.

Scripture does this all the time.

Staub makes the following statement that I didn’t quite understand: “The unsuccessful efforts at the November 2003 meeting in Atlanta, in which the membership of Pinnock and Sanders was sustained because of an insufficient number of affirmative votes, demonstrate that Ware argued for a de facto secondary separation.”

Eh? Maybe I’m just not getting this. How is this secondary separation? Ware was asking the group (ETS) to separate itself from proponents of Open Theism, which it obviously failed to do. It would ONLY be secondary separation if Ware then separated from ETS for refusing to separate from Pinnock/Sanders.

I think what he might mean there is that Ware’s efforts were themselves a secondary separation effort, though they didn’t work. Somewhere in there Dr.S remarked that he doesn’t see “secondary separation” as applying only to separating from those who fail to separate, but rather, applies the term to separation over disobedience vs. over deviation from the fundamentals of the faith. Hence the Driscoll matter.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

That certainly seems to be a non-standard way of defining ‘secondary separation’–and since those who oppose secondary separation do not define it that way, it seems somewhat odd to ignore their definition, give the term a new definition that ensures they would fall under it, and then sit back and claim, “see, they really do practice secondary separation”.

Since defining one’s terms is rule #1 for rational discourse to occur, and this is not done consistently, it seems his entire argument is flawed.

A. Many New Fundamentalists reject secondary separation.

Aa. They define “secondary separation” as separating over failure to separate.

B. But, these same New Fundamentalists separate over matters of disobedience to scripture.

Bb. I define “secondary separation” as separating over matters of disobedience to scriptre.

C. Therefore, these same New Fundamentalists really practice secondary separation.

Doesn’t this just simply result in a word game designed to produce a predetermined end in mind? After all, I could say “I define a Republican as anyone who is registered to vote”. Sure, I’ve just increased the numbers of the Republican Party, but I’ve kind of cheated a little. Since Democrats wouldn’t accept that definition, it wouldn’t really be good logic to try to say to them, “no really you are because that’s how I define the word”.

I’m not sure his definition is that unusual. I’d have to dig up my reading on the “secondary separation” debate to see (and it’s been a long time) but it seems like the case for it has always been a “separation from disobedient brethren” line of reasoning, with “failure to separate from apostasy” as an example of disobedience. So failure to sep. from those who fail to sep. has always been—for many—an example of “secondary sep” and not really the definition.

And I seem to recall that at least some of what I read on the “against” side, worked with that definition as well and argued that the passages involved should have a much more narrow application (in Thess. for example, the argument I read was that these verses apply only to church members who refuse to work when they could… and are then disciplined).

So my impression is that Dr. Straub’s def. is not novel. In any case, terminology aside, the debate between evangelicals and fundamentalists has been whether separation from disobedient brethren is warranted (in contrast to sep. from apostasy), regardless of what one chooses to call that kind of separation.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

I think I get that explanation. What I still don’t get is how the example of Ware counts as “de facto secondary separation”, since Bruce’s charge was precisely one of unorthodoxy. If anything is an example of “primary separation” (or whatever we call it), this would seem to be it.

Josh,

I think definitions are in order to help clarify things. I have often found that people tend to mistake secondary separation and second-degree separation.

While I do not have time for a polemic on the legitimacy of these, let me at least try to clarify with some simple definitions (hopefully) and some additional comments as it relates to this thread.

Primary separation - separation from unbelievers (II Cor 6:14 ff)

Secondary separation - separation from disobedient brothers (2 Thess 3:6)

1st-degree separation - one person separates from another

2nd-degree separation - one person separates from another because the first person did not separate from another

So, if we are to take this understanding, most Fundamentalist (historic) and Conservative Evangelicals would agree with primary separation. (Although not necessarily mainstream Evangelicals/New Evangelicals - e.g. Billy G.).

Fundamentalists would affirm explicity so-called Secondary Separation, whereas many conservate evangelicals would either limit separation from other believers to 1) a local church context or 2) a specific issue - e.g. laziness as Aaron pointed out.

Further, while we (Fundamentalists) do not like the term second-degree separation, we believe the practice of so-called second-degree separation is entirely appropriate, yea, Biblically necessary since the person who has failed to separate where separation was required is therefore in disobedience and thus this disobedience would require our separation from them.

In regards to Dr. Straub’s point, many conservative evangelicals have argued that there is not a Biblical mandate to separate from disobedient brothers. (Mainly by limiting the teachings regarding separation from disobedient brothers in one of the two ways mentioned above.) However, while they would deny a Biblical mandate for separation from disobedient brothers, they have often times shown themselves willing to separate from disobedient brothren in some of the ways Dr. Straub has indicated. In other words, their position is that the Bible does not demand “secondary separation”, but their practice is that they sometimes practice “secondary separation” - and thus, the charge of inconsistency in this area.

Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for Fundamentalists to also be inconsistent in this area - usually in the exact opposite direction. We argue that the Bible does declare the necessity to (at times and in particular situations) separate from disobedient brethren, yet too often when someone who has been a “friend” is shown to be in disobedience, and there is a lack of separation from that disobedient brother.

Hope this helps.

In Christ,

Pastor Frank Sansone

[Josh Gelatt] I think I get that explanation. What I still don’t get is how the example of Ware counts as “de facto secondary separation”, since Bruce’s charge was precisely one of unorthodoxy. If anything is an example of “primary separation” (or whatever we call it), this would seem to be it.
I’m afraid I don’t know enough about the case to help much there.

@Frank… good to see you back. I think alot of folks just never use the term “2nd degree” because they see it as just a particular form of secondary. But I can imagine situations where the distinction would probably be helpful to talking about it clearly.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

I don’t remember seeing that one before. Interesting. “Confessionalist” is apparently intended to be the “right’ one on that table, I guess.

Much in the “new image” column does not fit the YF’s I know and have read.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[Aaron Blumer] @Frank… good to see you back. I think alot of folks just never use the term “2nd degree” because they see it as just a particular form of secondary. But I can imagine situations where the distinction would probably be helpful to talking about it clearly.
Aaron,

Thanks.

FWIW, I agree that what is called 2nd degree separation is just a particular form of secondary separation.

Frank

Hey Frank,

Welcome back. We’ve missed you man!

Joel

Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Bible Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;