The Fundamentalist Challenge for the 21st Century: Do We Have a Future? Part 3
So what of the future for fundamentalism? Is there hope?
Having defined fundamentalism and having set it in the context of the evangelical right, I will devote the rest of this presentation to discussing where fundamentalism is going and what its future may be. We are less than a decade into the new millennium. It’s impossible to predict where we will be at the end of the century, but I am not too optimistic. A few months back I said some disparaging remarks about the current state of fundamentalism on a semi-private listserve I moderate. Word of what I said got out to a well-respected pastor in our circles and he contacted me to encourage me to be careful about dissing fundamentalism. He felt that I might hurt myself and ultimately Central Seminary. My response? I am a historian. We look at the past to understand the present. We look at the present to suggest what the future might be. Arnold Toynbee said once that “the only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history.” I think we need to be honest with our past, realistic about our present and reflective about our future. Only then can we hope to remain faithful to God. I did not create the state that fundamentalism is in, but I think that glossing over our problems will help no one. Young men will continue to leave and the old men will continue to sit smug in self-denial. A real future demands serious reflection.
So what about historic fundamentalism in the 21st century? Do we have a future? Last May, my son graduated from Central with his M.Div. He is currently enrolled in our ThM program. When he finishes, he will go out into the Lord’s work. I wonder where he will land? What movement will he identify with in the next decade, or 30 years? Will he follow my path and remain within this movement called fundamentalism? Will there even be a fundamentalism as we know it? Some of these questions, I cannot answer. But the one I raised in my subtitle—Does Fundamentalism Have a Future?—I do wish to try to answer.
Ultimately, only the Lord knows the real answer. While God knows the future (contra open theism) I certainly do not. But let me suggest a possible answer. The simple answer is yes. Fundamentalism has a future because, at its core, it is rooted in biblical truth. This is not to say it is without need of correction. But the essential ideas are biblical. Curtis Lee Laws did not invent it in 1920. Nor did the Stewart brothers in 1909. Nor is separatism a novel idea. The Donatists advocated it at the time of Augustine and Baptists were birthed in English separatism in the early 17th century. Baptists are by orientation separatists.
Before we answer the question in detail, let me offer a response to one non-answer for this question. Some suggest that it doesn’t really matter if fundamentalism has a future. Whether or not fundamentalism survives really doesn’t matter. Men suggest that they will simply go their own direction and do their own thing. Fundamentalism is a movement and they do not want to be a part of any movement. So it can prosper or fail and they simply don’t care. Ultimately this is where every local church pastor must stand. Whether a movement survives or collapses, we all stand before God and must give an account for our stewardship. If we believe in certain biblical principles, those ideas, by whatever name, should endure.
So though each one of us may end up there at some point, we still need to ask, “Does fundamentalism have a future today?” If it does, and if that future is to be bright, there are at least four things we must do—we must work toward greater interdependence, we must improve our preaching, we must be more be more biblical in our separation and we must demonstrate a greater spirit of true humility.
1. Great interdependence
We pride ourselves as being independents. Most of us are not connected to any major group. We stand on our own feet! I think this attitude identifies one of our core weaknesses—over independency. We think we don’t need anyone but God. “One man and God make a majority” we are told. Well, this may be true in the lion’s den or in the valley facing a Philistine, but quite often Israel found strength in unity. There were 12 tribes, not one—and 12 apostles. Paul had a whole company of associates and though he sometimes was lonely, it wasn’t because he wished to be alone. He worked with others throughout his ministry. And so should we.
In our fear of the slippery slope into liberalism, we have too often worked in isolation from others—pastors and churches. We are not very good at working together, making common cause for the work of Christ. As Americans, we have a “Yes We Can,” “Can Do” attitude. I don’t need you. Our church is large enough to do this on our own!
This is an absurd attitude. This independence may be a strength but I think it is also often a glaring weakness. Unless you are a Landmarker, you are a part of the Body of Christ! We are in union with other believers through Spirit baptism. We are a family. It’s odd that we seldom act like one. We need one another and we ought to work in partnership with like-minded believers. This is the Lord’s work, not our own. It’s His mission and His vineyard. The “I don’t need you” attitude is ineffectual at best and unbiblical at worst. It is also one reason why Together for the Gospel and the Gospel Coalition attract such large crowds. There is a sense of a greater mission that we seem to be unable to project. Often our “big” conferences are little more than meetings of self-promotion.
Our associations can be too narrow. If we only work with people exactly like us, how many of us are there really? What are the central issues and what are the peripheral issues? Is immersion a central or peripheral issue? In terms of church life and associations we would say yes, central. In terms of fundamentalist identity, we would say no—it’s peripheral. Fundamentalism has historically been transdenominational.
Even in doctrine we Baptists can be excessively narrow. Usually, one may hold to no more of Calvinism than the group’s leader or he is dubbed a hyper-Calvinist. A three-pointer will not work with a four or five-pointer because anyone who holds more points than he does is a heretic. Calvinism is a very divisive issue in ecclesiastical life. Jacob Arminius broke from the Dutch Calvinists, John Wesley broke from George Whitefield and the Particular and General Baptists fell out over it in England. It is likely too much to hope that things will change in fundamentalism. However, in fundamentalism’s early history, not even five-point Calvinism was out of line. C. H. Spurgeon was an unapologetic Calvinist as was T. T. Shields. Fundamentalism had numerous Presbyterians in its early days who affirmed the Westminster Confession. The GARBC has been strongly Calvinistic with a number of prominent five-pointers over the years. Fundamentalism has had a robust history of diversity here, rejecting both hyper-Calvinism and hyper Arminianism.
Theological triage
It is here we ought to consider R. Albert Mohler’s concept of theological triage.1 We might have minor disputes concerning which doctrines fit into which categories but the concept is very helpful as are his three broad categories. Level one doctrines are central to the Christian faith—the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the Substitutionary Atonement. Level two doctrines are things like denominational boundaries—baptism and church polity. Level three issues are minor doctrines over which we might agree and still be in close fellowship. At Central Seminary, we have several of these doctrines—not the least is our view of sanctification. Some men lean more toward a Keswisk view and others a Reformed view. We charitably disagree with one another. I am unapologetic about my premillenialism. But it is simply not as important as the impeccability of Christ. To deny one is to miss eternity. To deny the other is simply to be mistaken. Clearly Mohler has the right idea.
Some doctrines matter in certain contexts. I will not likely plant a church with my Free Presbyterian friend Mike Barrett. He was a professor at BJU in the 70s. I took him for more classes than any other professor and he was an excellent teacher. We renewed our acquaintance at various Bible faculty summits in recent years. We have some pretty significant theological differences—church polity among them. But we have some pretty close theological convictions also. Our view of church polity may keep us from “church” fellowship, but it need not hinder Christian fellowship.
And, by the way, when fundamentalists disagree on second and third tier issues, we need to do so charitably. If you disagree with me on the deity of Christ, then you are a heretic. But you are not a heretic if you don’t immerse. You are mistaken, but you are not a heretic. I am happy to say that we have at Central an environment for the students where they get to hear each of us make our case from the text and then decide which of us, if any, are right! Not about the core truths of the Gospel, mind you. There is unanimity there, and not even about second tier issues—we are all Baptists, but on some of these third tier issues, there are some interesting discussions in the breakroom!
If fundamentalism will have a future, we must renew our sense of identity. I am not suggesting that we try to reinvigorate a dead or dying movement, but I think the idea of biblical fundamentalism will not go away. Many today use the term Biblicism to mark a position that is somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism. However, in its classic sense, Biblicism simply means that a person seeks to be biblical in his orientation. Because fundamentalism is biblical, I don’t see how it will go away. It is a true Biblicism.
2. Better hermeneutics and preaching
It is odd that a movement that focuses on the Word of God should struggle with its interpretation and presentation of that Word. Unfortunately, however, this is the case in many parts of fundamentalism. Hermeneutics is the science of understanding the Bible in its context. The adage “a text without a context is a pretext” is too often evident among us. How many times have we heard messages that interpreted the text in ways that would have made the biblical authors fail to identify their own text?
Allegorical interpretation was popular among the ancient biblical commentators. Origen, the great 4th century father of Alexandria, said that the text held four levels of meaning. There was the obvious literal—grammatical meaning. But then there was an allegorical, a moral and an anagogical meaning.2 This made understanding the Scripture something that only someone with an insider’s knowledge could do. In the same way, when our church members hear us mishandle the text and leave a sermon thinking, “Wow, I would never have understood this passage if I hadn’t heard that sermon,” we do them a great injustice. Our preaching needs to be biblical yet simple—simple so that we lead them through a passage unfolding the obvious meaning that is available to all who are willing to study.
Once our hermeneutics improves, our preaching will follow. Today fundamentalism is known for preaching marked as shallow and unbiblical. Students attend Bible colleges across our movement and hear men preach from the platform who are loyal friends of their institutions but who are careless in their handling of the Scripture. Volume, passion, exhortation or humor are substituted for content. Anecdotes take the place of exegesis. This is improving, slowly, but improving nonetheless. Thanks to meetings like The Mid-America Conference on Preaching and the emphasis of some of the schools, expository preaching is on the rise. But still, at national meetings of fundamentalists, the preaching is often weak. This is another big draw for meetings like Together for the Gospel and the Gospel Coalition. Whatever one thinks of a particular speaker, nearly all can be expected to address the audience from the Scripture.
The final step in the process is application. Many us us start our sermon preparation with the idea, “What do I want my church to do?” Should we not start by asking, “What does this text say about God?” Once we understand that, then we ask, “How should this truth be communicated?” Only after we decide these two questions can we ask the third: “What should people do?” We simply must demand better preaching shaped by better hermeneutics and ending in better application. It simply does not help the next generation when they attend our churches and our schools only to be assaulted by unbiblical preaching.
Notes
1 R. Albert Mohler, “A Call for Theological Triage and Christian Maturity,” published online at http://www.albertmohler.com/commentary_read.php?cdate=2004-05-20. Accessed 29 April 2009.
2 There are numerous good books on interpretation, many of which discuss its history. See William W. Klein, Craig L. Blomberg and Robert L. Hubbard, Introduction to Biblical Interpretation (rev. ed. Nashville, Thomas Nelson, 2004). This text has an anti-dispensational tone so it has its limitations. But many of its chapters are excellent.
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I think that it is important for Bible colleges and universities to turn their back on politics and start modeling good preaching with more regularity. If change is going to happen it needs to happen in the formative years of the next generation. There are two dangers with the current lack of sound preaching in colleges and universities.
1) There is a mixed message being sent. Teachers say one thing while pastors model another. In a movement where respect for the pastor is rightly emphasized this conflict can be very confusing to a young man. We are taught to be suspicious of academics and embrace the pastorate, but our schools show that there is a conflict between what we are learning in academia and what happens in the church. In this situation academia is right and is being undermined by the overwhelming trend of what actually happens in churches.
2) The non-ministry students are trained to expect funny, trite, unbiblical preaching as the norm. I remember when I was a younger how much I hated good preaching because I had been trained my whole life that it was boring. It is then hard for a layperson to accept good preaching because they have been trained to appreciate bad preaching.
As long as were are implying an endorsement of bad preaching by allowing it to occur regularly in our academic pulpits good preaching will bot be present in our ecclesiastic pulpits.
And, by the way, when fundamentalists disagree on second and third tier issues, we need to do so charitably. If you disagree with me on the deity of Christ, then you are a heretic. But you are not a heretic if you don’t immerse. You are mistaken, but you are not a heretic. I am happy to say that we have at Central an environment for the students where they get to hear each of us make our case from the text and then decide which of us, if any, are right! Not about the core truths of the Gospel, mind you. There is unanimity there, and not even about second tier issues—we are all Baptists, but on some of these third tier issues, there are some interesting discussions in the breakroom!I’m happy to hear of this kind of learning environment. But don’t some of the rules and policies limit its effect? For instance I believe there is a rule that a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis (John Piper’s church), cannot even take classes at Central. [At least that’s how it was in 2003 when my brother looked into taking some classes from Central, then.] This is the kind of thing that turns young fundamentalists off. What are fundamentalists afraid of?
The series has thus far spoken highly of T4G, The Gospel Coalition, and made use of Mohler’s triage. But why then are all those groups still not fundamentalist enough? What makes the emphasis on the role of conservative, traditional music styles in “historic fundamentalist” schools different than the emphasis on the KJV in “hyper fundamentalist” institutions?
I’m happy that Dr. Straub is addressing these things, particularly the “humility” point to come. It seems in theory that the doctrinal core is all that historic fundamentalists care about. But the non-core issues like alcohol, music, and other social type issues or even some different takes on where to draw the line in separation — these all are what many “historic fundamentalists” stress over as they negatively evaluate the young fundamentalist branch.
Striving for the unity of the faith, for the glory of God ~ Eph. 4:3, 13; Rom. 15:5-7 I blog at Fundamentally Reformed. Follow me on Twitter.
Obviously Fundamentalists range in their responses to Conservative Evangelicals. You are asking the question, many YF’s are asking about. “How closely one can associate and benefit from the ministries of such men and still retain fellowship and “approval” of likeminded fundamentalists.” In the Central situation, I believe there was a policy change after I graduated (I attended from 98-01). At a recent meeting at Central, Dr. Bauder was asked about this question. His comment was that there were students that were coming to Central with the purpose of attending Bethlehem. The desire of Central is not to just provide the theological education, but also a build marriage with a strong local church experience that would reflect the same values. While Dr.Piper is highly regarded, and the ministry of Bethlehem respected, there are some differences that they feel would inhibit the mission of the school, training separatist Baptist ministry leaders.
I don’t recall the exact details of the policy, but I wonder if there is a distinction made of someone who is coming from Bethlehem as their home church or any other evangelical church and wants to attend Central, versus a student who moves to the area to attend Central and wants to select Bethlehem. It seems like a reasonable approach that is consistent with the spirit and purpose of the school.
[Tim Terpstra] BobIt does and it doesn’t, Tim. It’s reasonable if you are about reproducing separatist fundamentalists. It doesn’t if you are about teaching separatist positions and trying to influence all who choose to come to your institution. Why couldn’t the seminary so teach a young man that he wisens up a bit and sees the errors that Central sees in Bethlehem? To me, that is a fundamentalist rule which seeks to keep the seminary firmly fundamentalist and limits the influence of the school. It seems to be in opposition of the principles that I had quoted in my post.
Obviously Fundamentalists range in their responses to Conservative Evangelicals. You are asking the question, many YF’s are asking about. “How closely one can associate and benefit from the ministries of such men and still retain fellowship and “approval” of likeminded fundamentalists.” In the Central situation, I believe there was a policy change after I graduated (I attended from 98-01). At a recent meeting at Central, Dr. Bauder was asked about this question. His comment was that there were students that were coming to Central with the purpose of attending Bethlehem. The desire of Central is not to just provide the theological education, but also a build marriage with a strong local church experience that would reflect the same values. While Dr.Piper is highly regarded, and the ministry of Bethlehem respected, there are some differences that they feel would inhibit the mission of the school, training separatist Baptist ministry leaders.
I don’t recall the exact details of the policy, but I wonder if there is a distinction made of someone who is coming from Bethlehem as their home church or any other evangelical church and wants to attend Central, versus a student who moves to the area to attend Central and wants to select Bethlehem. It seems like a reasonable approach that is consistent with the spirit and purpose of the school.
Just my opinion, that’s all. And I know as you say there are some reasons for it. It just seems inconsistent and I think I’m not the only one who would voice that concern.
For the record, I’ve been a member at Bethlehem for 4 years. It is things like this that make me think pursuing further academic training at an institution like Central would be fruitless for me.
Striving for the unity of the faith, for the glory of God ~ Eph. 4:3, 13; Rom. 15:5-7 I blog at Fundamentally Reformed. Follow me on Twitter.
The catalog states “all students are expected to be active members of a local church that endorses the statement of purpose of Central Seminary and affirms the system of teaching set forth in the doctrinal statement, specifically churches that are Baptist, fundamentalist, separatist, dispensationalist and cessationist.” Catalog, 2009-2010, p. 23.
Some limited exceptions are made for students who come to Central from the Twin Cities area and who have an established history in a local evangelical church which may not fully conform to the above.
Why fault us for trying to train students for a particular kind of ministry.
Jeff Straub
Jeff Straub
[Jeff Straub] For the record … there is no rule that a student cannot be a member at Bethlehem and attend Central …or any other church for that matter.Umm … right.
The catalog states “all students are expected to be active members of a local church that endorses the statement of purpose of Central Seminary and affirms the system of teaching set forth in the doctrinal statement, specifically churches that are Baptist, fundamentalist, separatist, dispensationalist and cessationist.” Catalog, 2009-2010, p. 23.
So, let’s think about this:
1) No rule forbids students from being a member at Bethlehem Baptist or any other church.
2) Central expects students to be active members of a set of churches into which Bethlehem, and many other churches, do not fit.
So either this “expects” has no coercive force, and is intended along the lines of “It would be nice, or we prefer, that our students … ” or it does have coercive force, such that students who attend churches that fall outside of the described set of appropriate churches are not welcome as students at Central.
Given the “exceptions,” it’s seems obvious that the former is not intended but the latter is, i.e., one is required, under normal circumstances, to attend a church that fits into the set described in the above statement.
So, proposition 1 is not exactly accurate.
I, by the way, have absolutely no problem with seminaries training certain types of people for certain types of churches, etc.
But that means the seminary, if it’s Central, excludes other types of people from being students and does so in part based on the church in which they are active members. That’s Central’s right, obviously; but it seems a bit like fudging to then say Central does not have a rule etc. about churches.
Or, perhaps, I am wrong and Jeff will let me know that, yes, in fact, the”expects” does not affect a prospective or current’s students status if they fail to meet Central’s church expectations, such that, for example, a student, while at Central, could join Bethlehem or a similar church.
I am happy to be corrected, as I am trying to get clear Bob’s complaint and Jeff’s response.
[Joseph]Bob’s post gave the impression (at least to me) that Bethlehem was the specific target of a Central policy. Jeff clarified that Central has a general policy which, on the face of it, does not seem to be motivated by a specific desire to exclude Bethlehem members from studies. This is an important distinction, as my alma mater, BJU, has several times called out by name churches in the community and added them to the “ban.”
I am happy to be corrected, as I am trying to get clear Bob’s complaint and Jeff’s response.
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Thanks
Jim
Just wanted to thank Jeff for the clarification. Not directed to one church, I get that.
My only point in bringing that matter up was to say it seemed odd given the post’s mention of an open educational environment.
No more to say on the matter.
I am looking forward to the next post. I really have enjoyed this series, and especially the taxonomy chart. Helps all of us in thinking through things.
Striving for the unity of the faith, for the glory of God ~ Eph. 4:3, 13; Rom. 15:5-7 I blog at Fundamentally Reformed. Follow me on Twitter.
[Jeff Straub] There are numerous good books on interpretation, many of which discuss its history. See William W. Klein, Craig L. Blomberg and Robert L. Hubbard, Introduction to Biblical Interpretation (rev. ed. Nashville, Thomas Nelson, 2004). This text has an anti-dispensational tone so it has its limitations. But many of its chapters are excellent.I think I see what Jeff was doing here! Dispensationalism must be a third-tier issue!!!!!
I agree!
Ken Fields
Joe, we live in a big world, and I am sure there is a seminary out there for everyone. I’m not sure any seminary is obligated to be all things to all men … We have a particular approach to life and ministry that we believe is important. So we ask our students who move to the Twin Cities to attend a church that is in sympathy with what we are doing. Frankly, why would a Roman Catholic move to Mpls and chose to go to Central? Or a Lutheran or even a Southern Baptist. There are lots of Roman Catholic seminaries, Lutheran and SBC.
Its odd, but Southern had an interesting policy that they would give a serious discount (50%) to students who were a part of an SBC church. Non-SBC members paid double. Was I offended as a non-SBC. Of course not. Why not give the churches that support the seminary a break for their students. Now I understand that students sign some sort of pledge or covenant when they accept this reduction that they will in fact be open to working within the SBC. I guess Southern doesn’t have much of an open policy either, charging more to non-SBC students is down right discriminatory! … On second thought, no its not. Its their school and they can make whatever rules they wish to make. Crossing over into another discussion, they also had a no drinking policy. Talk about narrow-minded. But you know what, no one held a gun to my head and forced me to go to Southern. I accepted them for what they were—narrow-minded and all (apologies RAM, I am speaking strictly en plaisantant)
As far as I know Central like Southern is free to make its own policies and students are free to go to whatever seminary they think will best help them prepare for ministry.
Jeff Straub
Let the dogs nip at our heels. We can defend ourselves. The comment was downright silly. Worse yet, I dignified it with a response.
Jeff Straub
[Francis Wayland] “A Baptist Church can not be represented.”
Hoping to shed more light than heat..
[Jeff Straub] Jim:Dr. S., FWIW, I don’t think the comment was silly or that you dignified anything… you just answered it, and I think answered it well (aside from the unnecessary emotional stuff).
Let the dogs nip at our heels. We can defend ourselves. The comment was downright silly. Worse yet, I dignified it with a response.
(And Jim’s post was just an effort to keep the thread on topic… and has no reference to how big any of the boys are. Though now I’m nudging the thread further off topic again by posting this…. sometimes unavoidable I guess)
I’m sure someone is doing an expensive taxpayer-funded study on the question, but someday I’d like to figure out what it is about questions in forums that get people irked when the same questions asked at—say, a conference workshop, wouldn’t elicit that kind of irritation. Not jabbing at you Jeff—I’ve seen it over and over and over. (And, at least once, done it myself).
Anyway, that little digression to just say this: let’s just take questions as questions and just answer them, eh?
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Here is Bob Hayton’s original statement and question:
“I believe there is a rule that a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis (John Piper’s church), cannot even take classes at Central. [At least that’s how it was in 2003 when my brother looked into taking some classes from Central, then.] This is the kind of thing that turns young fundamentalists off. What are fundamentalists afraid of?”
I am afraid that this statement is mistaken on several counts. Now, here is my explanation—an explanation that is a close to “official” as you can get.
(1) We certainly will accept students from Bethlehem Baptist or from any other gospel-preaching church. Our student population is not limited either to Baptists or to Fundamentalists. We believe that our position is quite defensible and are more than happy to teach it to students who come from different kinds of evangelical backgrounds. If you come to Central Seminary, you will find yourself in class with people from a various sorts of evangelicals.
(2) Our mission is not to help people leave Fundamentalism for any less biblical version of Christianity. So if a person is coming to Minneapolis as a new student, then we require that person to find membership in a church that meets certain criteria. Our mission is to train Christian leaders for ministry that embodies certain practical and theological values. As a seminary, we cannot accomplish that mission without the help of the local church. In fact, it is really the other way ‘round—we are the helpers, and the local churches are the primary trainers. We deliberately partner with churches and pastors that share certain values. If a student chooses to separate from those churches, we take that as an indication that he has already rejected those values. A student who refuses to consider and experience the values that we hold is probably not going profit greatly from his experience here. Therefore, we believe that we are justified in requiring new students coming from outside the area to settle in a church that holds our values.
(3) One reason that this is important is because our students pay less than twenty percent of the cost of their education. The rest of their education is a gift from the Lord’s people. Those who provide that gift have done so in the belief that we are committed to fostering a particular set of doctrinal and practical values in our students, so that those values can be perpetuated by our graduates. If we were to make it our mission to assist young leaders in abandoning our values, then we would have to face a crisis of conscience when we faced our donors and supporters. In other words, there is an ethical dimension to our policy on church membership.
(4) The decision as to whether a church holds our values is left between the student and the pastor of that church. Central Seminary does not maintain a list of approved churches. We do not investigate churches. We do not intrude into churches except when we are asked. If a student wants to know whether a particular church is appropriate under our policy on church membership, we tell him to ask the pastor. If the pastor identifies with our values as described in the policy, then the student is welcome to take membership in that church. Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the policy affects certain versions of Fundamentalism as profoundly as it affects non-Fundamentalist evangelicalism.
(5) We are not really interested in turning out students who are loyal to the Fundamentalist name or movement. For one thing, there is no Fundamentalist movement to be loyal to any more. For another, the various splinter movements of Fundamentalism are not loyal to one another, so it would be impossible for one of our graduates to be loyal to all of them. For a third thing, not all Fundamentalists are equally loyal to the Word of God—in fact, some non-Fundamentalist evangelicals are more loyal to Scripture than some celebrated Fundamentalists. The only way to avoid confusion is to be driven by values and principles, not by partisan loyalties. In order for that to happen, one must learn the values and see the principles put to work. We want our students to do exactly that—hence, the policy.
Discussion