Albert Mohler: "We should not be surprised that the secular world confuses sinners and sociopaths, prison and hell"

Who cares who is doing it? It amazes me that you don’t recognize the absurdity of your guilt by association arguments. You know what else they have in common? They are all white men in America. We better be leery of those white male Americans.

I am no great admirer of any of those guys but how about actually evaluating their doctrine instead of who their cousin had dinner with in 1989?

[christian cerna]

You are basically saying that Billy Graham is a Christian, because he says he is. So basically, according to you, anyone who says they are a Christian is a Christian. Why is Billy Graham’s Ecumenism acceptable, but Benny Hinn’s money making schemes not? What if Benny Hinn is a real Christian who has just gone astray, and needs to turn back again? After all, Benny Hinn also gives a powerful testimony about how he got saved.

Billy Graham preaches a false gospel. For the Bible says there is only one way to the Father. And that the way that leads to eternal life is narrow. If people can be saved without hearing the gospel or knowing the name of Jesus, then it makes preaching the gospel kinda pointless.

Have you heard these words before?

..for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”…

In order to be saved, one must call on the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Billy Graham preaches that people need to be saved. If he is preaching to them, then they have heard about Jesus. If they have heard about Jesus then they must be saved through Jesus. Billy Graham’s inclusivism concerns those who have never heard the Gospel. I think he is wrong, but he still preaches Gospel.

Benny Hinn presents himself as an apostle of God. He does not preach anything about salvation through Christ. He tells people that they need to be healed and he calls for them to give money to him as a sign of their faith.

Do you really have a difficulty seeing the difference?

Philippians 1:15-18

15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.

Gospel preached to people who need Christ means that Christ’s kingdom is enlarged. God uses imperfect vessels to accomplish his will. Thank heavens, else none of us would be able to do anything.

[bobj]

To Greg,

My facts are speculation? Tell me exactly where my facts became speculation. God forbid I should let others know where they can learn the truth. Want to know more? Want to know what Graham, Mohler, Land, Piper all have in common? They are all Jews.

Bob J

Bob, I have already answered your “facts” in several posts above. A good debater or a good writer will prove his point by interacting with his antagonist intelligently and having sufficient counters to his statements. Thus far, you have merely repeated yourself several times and thrown out non-sequitirs.

Please explain how your “facts” prove your point. Keep in mind that the people on this forum do not accept your conclusions merely because you say they you are right. You will actually have to “show your work” to convince anyone that you should be taken seriously. For instance:
“The ERLC is bad…Mohler is on the board of the ERLC…Mohler isn’t a Christian” will not get you anyway. If you continue to express yourself in that pedantic and illogical fashion I will most definitely continue to disagree with you and I will relegate you to the category of “amusing, yet irrelevant.”

Now is the time when you can demonstrate the logical development of your positions rather than just blustering.

[bobj]

To Greg,

My facts are speculation? Tell me exactly where my facts became speculation. God forbid I should let others know where they can learn the truth. Want to know more? Want to know what Graham, Mohler, Land, Piper all have in common? They are all Jews.

Bob J

Another conspiracy theory…how quaint.

But honestly, I refer you to Matthew 12:31-32. Your views of the satanic influences on the SBC and your allegations of Jewish agenda are borderline blasphemous. It is a high sin against the Holy Spirit to condemn God’s work as Satanic. I urge you to be more circumspect. The SBC, Graham, Mohler, Land, and Piper are all flawed human beings. But God has used them to spread the light of his Gospel throughout the world. Your pettiness and divisiveness mock the work of the God that has saved you. I am not offended for these men…they should held accountable if they miss-step. But I am aghast that you be so brazen as to claim that God’s work is satanic.

Avoid them, discard their books, cover your ears when they preach…but you should not and you dare not demonize Christian brothers and profane God’s usage of them for his glory.

Mark 9:38-41 “38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.”

Philippians 1:15-18 “15 Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will. 16 The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17 The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice.”

––––Moderator note to BobJ –––––-

Please respond: You may either respond to me personally by PM OR respond to this post.

Please prove these points:

• “Mohler is the founding fellow of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) of the SBC as well as (last I saw) Vice Chairman of Focus on the Family. Both of these orgs are NGO’s of the UN with special consultative status.”
• “Mohler fully supports the UN agenda which is an anti-Christ agenda.”
• “Want to know more? Want to know what Graham, Mohler, Land, Piper all have in common? They are all Jews.” (And what if they were Jews?”

Others: Do not respond to BobJ until he responds to these questions to me. Thanks

––––END Moderator note to BobJ –––––-

I’m curious - I mentioned the sequence of events regarding Mohler’s statement of support for CJ Mahaney. Do any of you see any problems with the way this statement has been yanked offline, comments discarded, document altered - all without an explanation? Is that behavior you expect from a president of a popular theological seminary or a Christian leader, or for a Christian for that matter? Doesn’t scripture point out a higher level of integrity for those in leadership positions? Why does he get to behave like this publicly without any accountability from fellow church leaders?

I am a stay-at-home mom with no degree and when I alter a blog post, I issue an update note at the bottom of my post. I’ve never taken any journalism classes. It just seems like common courtesy and integrity to me.

Here are documents from the UN’s own website that shows some connection with the ERLC.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/ecosoc6254.doc.htm

http://esango.un.org/civilsociety/showProfileDetail.do?method=showProfi…

http://csonet.org/content/documents/E2012INF6.pdf (see pg. 29)

I want to make sure that we don’t play fast and lose with the facts

Like:

• “Graham is a 33 degree mason who denies biblical doctrine”
• “Billy Graham has been a stooge for Satan since day one”
• “Allow me now to state a few facts about Al Mohler which will prove that he can’t be a Christian”
• And more from BobJ that one just has to scroll back and view

It’s not going to work on S/I. BobJ probably should move on.

http://safeguardyoursoul.com/cs-lewis-fraud-false-teacher/

[christian cerna]

http://safeguardyoursoul.com/cs-lewis-fraud-false-teacher/

I don’t know where you are digging these guys up, but they miss the credibility boat. Here’s another quote from the same site:

IS IT TIME TO GET THE REAL BIBLE? TRASH, burn, your NIV …. it’s garbage and so are all new versions …. Get a King James Bible beloved if you desire the pure Word of God (Psalms 12:6-7). Gullibility is a curse. HOW could any true disciple of Christ defend this evil filth?

Are these the people you are suggesting we look to for guidance and spiritual wisdom?

This thread is just getting weird now. What does the Lewis thing have to do with the above? Are Mohler and he shirttail relatives or something?

Just dropped in to this one to look around. Wow. Is the moon full?

On the general topic of who’s a Christian and who isn’t… isn’t the job of deciding who is and who ain’t already filled? I haven’t heard of any job postings for either the Bema or the Great White Throne.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

We all have better things to do than try to usurp that job!

[Aaron Blumer]

Just dropped in to this one to look around. Wow. Is the moon full?

On the general topic of who’s a Christian and who isn’t… isn’t the job of deciding who is and who ain’t already filled? I haven’t heard of any job postings for either the Bema or the Great White Throne.

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

We all have better things to do than try to usurp that job!

Interesting you mention this, Aaron. I’m not sure the 9Marks folks would agree with you. Look what I found yesterday on the 9Marks site:

“The apostles had heaven’s authority for declaring who on earth is a kingdom citizen and therefore represents heaven.

I’m not saying that Jesus established a “church membership program” in Matthew 16, but he indisputably established the church (which is its members), and he gave it the authority of the keys to continue building itself—effectively the authority to receive and dismiss members. The authority of the keys is the authority to assess a person’s gospel words and deeds and to render a judgment. “

and this one:

“The state’s representative authority, we said in chapter one, is seen most clearly in its ability to end a person’s life. Likewise, the church’s representative authority in Christ’s kingdom is seen most clearly in its ability to remove a person from citizenship in Christ’s kingdom. In both cases, the full extent of institutional authority is indicated by the power to decisively end a person’s membership, through death in one case and excommunication in the other. ”

I see no contradiction between the 9 Marks quotations and Aaron Blumer’s comments. Blumer, I believe, is speaking generally, whereas 9 Marks applies only to local church membership. We have a responsibility to put out of our local church those whose public pronouncements and actions continue to defy basic Christian morality and doctrine. We have no similar responsibility to those who are not members of our church.

[christian cerna]

http://safeguardyoursoul.com/cs-lewis-fraud-false-teacher/

Christian, with so many unresolved issues on this thread (many of which you instigated), why do you refuse to dig deeper with your positions? Instead you continue to throw out inanities.

A sign of a true and well-developed position is that you are able to have sustained discussion about your position. At this point, it looks like your knowledge of the issues above is weak. You appear to have a superficial knowledge of the allegedly important topics that you bring up.

You would be more convincing if you would interact with people and their posts rather than introducing new topics all the time. A number of different people have challenged your positions. Engage them logically, point by point, it will strengthen your understanding and enlighten us.