Has Northland Drifted Away From Fundamentalism?

Thanks, Joel, for the input. It’s helpful.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much hope for this to ever happen on a larger scale unless certain fundamentalists stop believing that a person like me is a disobedient brother because of my contrasting view on music.

Let me ask you this, Joel. Being quite Calvinistic, I do tend to avoid settings where there is going to be “walk the aisle” kind of techniques applied. I don’t necessarily put revivalists in the “disobedient brother” category, though. Would you feel more comfortable actively sharing in some fellowship with someone who felt similarly about your music methods as I might about someone’s employing “walk the aisle” techniques?

For others- is my analogy a good one? Why or why not?

Would you feel more comfortable actively sharing in some fellowship with someone who felt similarly about your music methods as I might about someone’s employing “walk the aisle” techniques?

As a Calvinist myself, I share your sentiments about “walk the aisle” techniques :) It may be harder to fellowship with those that do not share one’s philosophy of ministry or music, but it is something that I try to pursue. Years ago, one of our partner churches (and sending church), Berean Baptist Church of Grand Rapids, had a youth pastor that I often clashed with when it came to ministry philosophy. Because I was working with their urban youth from the neighborhood and he was working with the suburban youth that grew up in the church, we had to work together and through certain issues. Yet the last 3 years of his ministry at Berean, we both were intentional in really trying to understand each other, love each other, bear with one another, and learned from each other. We reconciled our relationship and God matured us both through it.

[Greg Linscott]

Thanks, Joel, for the input. It’s helpful.

Unfortunately, I don’t have much hope for this to ever happen on a larger scale unless certain fundamentalists stop believing that a person like me is a disobedient brother because of my contrasting view on music.

Let me ask you this, Joel. Being quite Calvinistic, I do tend to avoid settings where there is going to be “walk the aisle” kind of techniques applied. I don’t necessarily put revivalists in the “disobedient brother” category, though. Would you feel more comfortable actively sharing in some fellowship with someone who felt similarly about your music methods as I might about someone’s employing “walk the aisle” techniques?

For others- is my analogy a good one? Why or why not?

In reverse order - Yes, I think the analogy is good.

Yes, as long as they understood that I did things (and taught my people) to ‘not walk the aisle’. If we were working together in a community outreach or something like that, I would tolerate it as far as the audience understood that walking the aisle was a public confession of something, not a magical power in and of itself.

So does that make me a hypocrite or just confused? :)

Jay,

The doctrinal statement of NI states (in its grad school section - and the faculty member is the assistant director of the grad school): “Therefore, we cannot accept the position reflected in the Ecumenical Movement, Neo-Orthodoxy, New Evangelicalism, or the various branches of the Charismatic Movement. We believe cooperation should be limited to those of like precious faith.”

The doctrinal statement of his church states: “The Holy Spirit desires to fill each believer continually with increased power for Christian life and witness, and imparts his supernatural gifts for the edification of the Body and for various works of ministry in the world. All the gifts of the Holy Spirit at work in the church of the first-century are available today, are vital for the mission of the church, and are to be earnestly desired and practiced.”

The doctrinal statement of the church clearly reflects a branch of the charismatic movement - not simply the TBN branch. Northland’s doctrinal statement is clearly against (all) of the various branches of the Charismatic movement.

All the gifts of the Holy Spirit at work in the church of the first-century are available today, are vital for the mission of the church, and are to be earnestly desired and practiced.

If what you’re saying is true - and I have no reason to doubt you on this - then yes, NIU is being inconsistent and they need to address it. They honestly should have addressed it before this last semester / school year started or the semester after this issue first came up (since I don’t know when that first arose). The sooner they address it, the better off the school will be.

For the sake of the institution and the faculty member involved, I won’t point out specific links. However, all of the claims that I have made are in the public domain and available both at NI’s website, the faculty member’s website, and his church’s website. Thus, while I’m not absolutely certain of his personal doctrinal position (although a Facebook discussion several months back makes me think that I do know), the problem that I have pointed out exists. If you want specific documentation, send me an e-mail, and I’ll point you to the sites.

[Susan R]

I hear profane music every time I go to Kroger. Or Target. Or the mall.

I don’t know why we think our adult children need spiritual bubble wrap. If they love the Lord and have a solid foundation (and many of us have had 18 years to build it) then they should be able to withstand some American culture. If they aren’t regenerate, rules about going to movies or listening to rap are not going to change their heart.

I find the whole subject of Christian colleges to be problematic. Students are often training for the ministry outside of the umbrella of the local church. If they aren’t training for ministry, why do they need ‘protected’? We are not even considering Christian college for our kids. They will go to the best college for their specific career goals. And I won’t have to worry about any of this. Yeah for me.

So true. My kids went to two years of public high school. They then took entrance tests for the local community college, earned presidential scholarships for two years of tuition and graduated at age 17 from the community college. They then transferred to the local state university and earned their degrees in computer software engineering, art, and nursing. My fifth child is graduating this May and will pursue her BSN degree over the next two years!

During the first two years of college, what would be the junior and senior years of high school, they work, they buy their own cars, they go to school, and they go to church (with us)!

The best part of this process is that they are taking on adult responsibilities at age 16, living at home and going to church. They are active in church and serve. By the time they graduate at age 19 or 20 with their bachelor’s degrees they have learned what it means to be an adult and to be a faithful follower of Christ.

The results?

Child one is married to a Christian young man for six years now. Finally going to have a grandchild! Attends and serves in church.

Child two is single, 23, making big money at his job, serving middle school children at church, making friends with people of all ages at the mega church he attends.

Child three is single, 21, lived in VA, moved to Kansas City, gaining experience as an ICU nurse in order to become a Nurse Anesthetist. Attends church.

Child four, 19, in his second year at community college. Lived on his own for a year. Learned a lot about himself. Made mistakes. Loved and forgiven. Back home. Back on track. Attends church and serves in the sound booth.

Child five, 17, finishing up last semester of community college before nursing school.

Three more to go.

It’s working. But the best part is watching them grow into responsible adults and faithful Christians.

Blessings!

[Greg Linscott]

Most CCM groups are ecumenical and their theology is quite eclectic.

BJU recently had Steve Green (Hobby Lobby guy, not the other one) in to speak. No one seemed concerned about that one, though I doubt he is a Fundamentalist. They have also had other political speakers over the years that have gone broader and could be argued as “ecumenical,” in a manner of speaking. Most people, even who have disagreed with those moves, have given them some latitude on these kind of things- not to mention artists they have had perform who are flat-out unregenerate, but since they are opera singers or classical musicians…

You were saying…?

Anyone want to talk about a music prof at BJU writing music for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir? Doesn’t seem to be much concern about this.

How about having the San Francisco based Chanticleer group in to sing to the students at BJU. A bunch of non-believers, some who are allegedly gay! Doesn’t seem to be much concern about this.

But NIU fellowships with other Christians who use CCM at a concert and that is a concern? I see what NIU’s problem is, they should be recruiting students at Mormon concerts and bringing in nonbelievers to sing to the students. Shame on you NIU for fellowshipping with Christians at a concert. How dare you practice 1920s style fundamentalism.

All the threads here on SI commenting on all things Northland are just plainly frustrating. It’s stuff like this that gets us younger guys to say, “Yep, good thing we’re not associated with Fundamentalism anymore.” Really? Getting our feathers ruffled over how an institution “does” music? And Fundamentalists wonder why younger people are leaving the movement?

At this point, I’m glad there is a distinction between historical fundamentalism and whatever fundamentalism is today. The fundamentalist “divines” would find all this uproar against Northland disappointing, and well, laughable. Whatever “Fundamentalism” is worth saving today, isn’t what it was in the early 20th century. Thank goodness that we DO have a paradigm/example to look back on.

There seems to be less “independence” in Independent Fundamental Baptist circles. The irony. More power to Northland. Out of all the “fundamentalist” colleges, NIU seems to exhibit what it means to be independent, fundamental, and baptist. Thank God for NIU and Matt Olson..

iK