Issues We Have With G.R.A.C.E. Investigating BJU
I’m going to paste an article I just wrote on our website, and would appreciate any input on it. I may just be huffing over nothing about what I read about GRACE’s report but any way:
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Bob Jones University has been under scrutiny by another “do right” group led by homosexual activists called “Do Right BJU”. The group has the same anti-fundamentalist sentiment that the other Do Right groups have but seems to lean more toward complaints about BJU’s stance against the LGBT community(Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender)* The two prominent complaints appear to be over the alleged cover up of 9 cases of sexual abuse (which they later admitted was committed by one person on all 9 counts, although when they first reported the story, they gave the impression that it could have been 9 different offenders. Although one is too many, there is no need to embellish the story and sandbag the facts. And, it does appear that when one of the incidents was reported, BJU contacted the police, and the perpetrator was arrested, which was not mentioned in any of the earlier reports), and the alleged cover up of the rape of Tina Anderson by BJU staff member, Chuck Phelps. ( We do believe that the perpetrator in this matter has been incarcerated for this incident.)
Bob Jones University responded to the complaints for accountability by requesting the assistance of third-party victim advocacy group called G.R.A.C.E (Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment). We will make more editions to information about this at a later time regarding any results of investigations posted by GRACE, but for now, we will post the main, and so far, only issue that we know that has our eyebrows raised in this report provided by Christianity Today:
“The Bob Jones University/Academy leadership has communicated to GRACE that acknowledging and understanding any recognized failures will better equip both Bob Jones University and Bob Jones Academy to demonstrate authentic repentance to those who have been harmed, while also making the necessary institutional changes to insure that such is never repeated. “[1: (emphasis added)
While we have no problem with an outside investigation agency using their legal resources for investigations such as this, it is quite a stretch for an outside Christian organizing to determine what is or is not the proper response that qualifies for “authentic repentance”. Repentance is a much debated topic from doctrines of “easy believism”, to Lordship Salvation a priori of salvation, and whether there needs to be sorrow, regret, change of action a posteriori.
The debate about repentance is not the issue in this article but a colleges right to define it. We ARE concerned about the appearance that the colleges being investigated would have to meet GRACE’s definition of repentance in order to receive a “clean bill of health”. What if the colleges or religious institutions being investigated have a fundamentally different view of repentance than GRACE? This can certainly be an issue since the founders of GRACE are acquainted with the Billy Graham Association and there has been a traditional view of cynicism among fundamentalist churches regarding Billy Graham over the last 30 years.
We are certainly not advocating that a corporate Christian body need not demonstrate repentance, but in this article the emphasis on “authentic” repentance allows for an outside institution that may not share the same beliefs to define that institution’s doctrine, and that can set a very disturbing precedent; particular if the government attempts to make these type of investigations mandatory (which many of the victim advocacy groups are pushing for).
While it is honorable that BJU appears to want to “do the right thing”, as fundamentalists and separatists, we must not become so desperate under pressure of criticism to compromise our core beliefs or give up the right to define those to satisfy the negative public opinions of our institutions, many of whom will not be satisfied with the results regardless of the efficacious effect the investigations may produce.
This will likely ruffle some feathers and be misinterpreted by our critics (as if we care) but if fundamentalist churches allow this type of precedent to be set, it opens the door for many other emerging church philosophies; something for BJU to prayerfully consider, and for G.R.A.C.E. to perhaps clarify the implementation of such statements and how they arrive at their conclusion as to what demonstrates “authentic repentance”.
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*A petition made by members of the Do Right BJU Facebook group on I-Petition created a complaint directed toward Pepsi who has apparently sponsored BJU sports teams in some manner. Some of the bulleted complaints are 4) BJU’s history on LGBT rights, 5) BJU’s views on other religious organizations — especially Catholicism.
How and why anyone would expect a fundamentalist Christian institution to be bullied into changing their views on homosexuality and the Catholic church is astonishing.
- 310 views
FWIW, I think the key phrase is “better equip.” The idea is “help,” I think. So it amounts to seeking counsel from people who are respected experts in this area. It’s not a “OK, you’re going to decide everything we do in this area from now on” kind of thing, I’m sure.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
How do you know that BJU’s contracting with G.R.A.C.E. is a response to “Do Right BJU”?
It’s possible that their own board or executives saw this as advantageous.
That’s a good point Jim, I can’t say I know that for sure, but I do know for sure the DRBJU is taking credit for it. But it does appear that the public controversy wasn’t made popular until this group began a protest and started several groups (one in which I believe is exclusively homosexual, BJUnity). It would have made sense for BJU to want to offer a public response such as inviting GRACE when they were accused of covering up 9 different offenses although I believe the DRBJU and other groups purposely embellished the facts.
But again, I don’t know if that was BJU’s reason, but I did say that BJU was under scrutiny by these groups (which they are) not necessarily that that is the primary cause for BJU’s actions in working with Grace, and then later stated BJU responded to complaints for accountability and those complaints did not necessarily come from the Do Right groups exclusively. But several in these groups like Jeffrey Hoffman and Christopher Petermen are making extra effort to make sure the world notices them and gives them the credit for the controversy as if they are more interested in the credit than the results of any investigation.
Dr James Ach
What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25
My take:
- DRBJU is a “twit” group with little power. They (whoever “the they” are) hung patsy Chris Peterman out to dry.
- I think that BJU engaged G.R.A.C.E. like a bank or business hires an independent auditor.
- Your title = “G.R.A.C.E. Investigating BJU” … I think it’s more like this (next)
- BJU engaged G.R.A.C.E. to audit BJU
Conclusion: Smart move for BJU.
Most of these Facebook groups are insignificant to everyone except themselves. Jeffrey Hoffman’s Bob Jones University Survivors group has a stagnant 213 members, most of whom don’t participate anymore. DRBJU is pretty much the same with the same few posters. They’re legends in their own minds.
"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan
[Jim]My take:
- DRBJU is a “twit” group with little power. They (whoever “the they” are) hung patsy Chris Peterman out to dry.
- I think that BJU engaged G.R.A.C.E. like a bank or business hires an independent auditor.
- Your title = “G.R.A.C.E. Investigating BJU” … I think it’s more like this (next)
- BJU engaged G.R.A.C.E. to audit BJU
Conclusion: Smart move for BJU.
I’m not doubting the smartness of the move for BJU, my concern is what needs to be, if anything, compromised in order to get that “clean bill of health” because obviously those watching BJU are going to rely heavily on what GRACE says at the conclusion of their investigation. What my concern is is that churches/collegs could get a bad review because the entity being investigated did not comply with their version of repentance.
If GRACE continues to gain credibility, they could be like the “BBB” of churches and colleges, even though the BBB doesn’t dictate how a business should operate, if you want a good standing with them there are certain standards that must be complied with, and then if those standards are in conflict with that church or college’s beliefs, will it have a negative effect on their standing in the community?
Dr James Ach
What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25
[Ron Bean]Most of these Facebook groups are insignificant to everyone except themselves. Jeffrey Hoffman’s Bob Jones University Survivors group has a stagnant 213 members, most of whom don’t participate anymore. DRBJU is pretty much the same with the same few posters. They’re legends in their own minds.
I would agree that at one point they may have been insignificant, but with their names being thrown around by major news outlets like the Chicago Magazine, ABC’s 20/20, Current Affair, et al, they are at least being given some credibility and are deceiving innocent church members about the facts about what fundamentalism really is. I have seen numerous people leaving fundamentalist churches because of the claims these groups make, and if just one person has left based on the deception these groups have presented, that’s one too many.
And when I am referring to Do RIght BJU, I’m am also including the other “do right” groups as well. I would say that the combined membership of the do right groups, and other “advocates” followers such as Jeri Massi , Darrell Dow and Jocelyn Zichterman, would be at around 5000, and if their claims have gotten the attention of major media outlets, as liberal as they are, I would be reluctant to say their influence is less than significant.
Dr James Ach
What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25
[DrJamesAch] If GRACE continues to gain credibility, they could be like the “BBB” of churches and colleges, even though the BBB doesn’t dictate how a business should operate, if you want a good standing with them there are certain standards that must be complied with, and then if those standards are in conflict with that church or college’s beliefs, will it have a negative effect on their standing in the community?I think the difference is that any GRACE standards that would conflict with the biblical operation of a conservative Christian organization are going to be quickly identified by other like-minded organizations and any negative coercive power will go right out the window.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
If there were a Fundamental organization like GRACE dedicated solely to this issue, I would have no problem. The problem is there is not one.
Roger Carlson, Pastor Berean Baptist Church
DoRight BJU/Facebook, started not by a BJU student, but by two disgruntled BJU alumni (one former faculty) now consists of 4 moderators — none of which currently attend or work for BJU.
As you may know, the site took its name from a Bob Jones, Sr. “chapel saying” - “Do right until the stars fall.” The original meaning, of course, was to always have scriptural principles be the only guiding force in you life no matter what - even if “the stars fall.”
But the folks at DoRight have quickly abandoned scripture - referring to the Bible as a “bully”, labeling the majority of Christians as “homophobic”, denying that there is a sin nature (calling it “illogical”) and that there is no need for redemption/salvation/conversion.
Labeling them as a “twit group with little power” is certainly humorous and possibly accurate - but - the damage these folks can do to individuals is real and can be eternal. Instead of asking “what must I do to be saved?”, they proclaim “God has already made you perfect - live your life as you see fit.”
Haven’t we heard this before? Isn’t this is just another case of doing “what was right in his own eyes”?
As Mr. Peet pointed out, GRACE is nothing more than an audit - and BJU’s Board engaging GRACE was a smart move. It demonstrates BJU’s desire for complete compliance and a willingness for appropriate change.
And “change” is what these “twit group[s] ” demand — but the type of change they seek is for BJU (and other similar institutions) to be harassed, embarrassed and to eventually close.
First of all I hypothesize that BJU does not have an abuse problem. I may be wrong but we will see.
So hiring (perhaps engaging the services of … is more accurate) G.R.A.C.E. brilliant tactical move because …
- IF there are no problems … but
- You have a group accusing of ..
- You bring in independent group with noted experience in this area ..
- To exonerate
Years ago a Pastor whom I know was accused of financial misconduct with his church’s funds. He brought in an independent auditor who, after diligent research, demonstrated that the books were clean and there was no misappropriation of funds.
Exoneration may occur in our eyes - and the eyes of many other fair minded individuals, but BJU will never be exonerated in the eyes of those who so intensely hate it (i.e., those that populate the DoRight pages). If GRACE finds BJU clean and pure, then the cry will be:
- BJU “got” to them
- BJU didn’t notify those who were truly abused
- BJU & GRACE are both religously based therefore both are in collusion
- some other nefarious scheme I haven’t thought of…
There will be no pleasing these people because the aim is not to prove BJU “good” or to make BJU “good” — it is the abolishment of conservative, Biblically based Christianity. This feigned out-cry against sexual abuse at BJU is a means to an end. Or as one DoRight member put it:
“Our goal is not to mend fences with what we see as an evil and corrupt institution.”
It is Christopher PeterMAN — please get it right since I am totally addicted to getting my name out there and getting all the attention.
It’s crazy how BJU suddenly started caring about all the issues these “twit” groups were talking about — since they have no power .. nice Jim, nice.
-The One and Only Patsy — Christopher Dale Peterman (i.e. pawn of JH and CL)
P.S. One thing that really upsets me about this thread, these abuse issues are real. I have talked with many victims and S.I.’s degradation of DRBJU and the investigation by GRACE is not only pathetic, it’s appalling. S.I. and the fundamentalist movement in general is a blight on Christianity — Jesus would be ashamed. Where is the love for the hurting? Where is the love for the victims?
P.S.S. Do Right BJU and BJUnity are completely separate. I have no relation to BJUnity and Jeffrey Hoffman is not an admin of DRBJU.
Thanks for getting your facts right.
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
“…the fundamentalist movement in general is a blight on Christianity…”
Chris — So you have said on “Not Straight TV” (October 22, 2012) where you, Chris, link DoRight BJU with BJUnity as though they were the same site with a common purpose.
You personally:
- impugned the majority of Christians as being “homophobic”
- denied that all men are born with a sin nature (calling it “illogical”)
- denied the need for redemption
- referred to the Bible as a “bully”
- referred to God as a “concept” not a Person
Of course, I don’t say these things without the proof to back them up - out of your own mouth and with your own words.
Chris, it’s a shame you threw away multiple academic years at BJU. You sat out, worked hard to earn tuition money, only to have it all stolen by BJU alumni who for one reason or another have a grudge against the school. It was you, Chris, that was abused and taken advantage of.
If I follow the reasoning on this thread, allegations against a person or ministry can be thrown out or dismissed if the character and tone of the person making the allegation is in question. I don’t think that fits with the Bible. I don’t see any Scripture that indicates that we don’t need to self-examine if we disagree with the theology or character of the accuser. I imagine lots of accusers of Catholic priests were agnostic or atheistic, perhaps homosexual. It’s an irrelevant point to the issue of whether or not the Catholic church needed to investigate itself (which it did not do very well and then paid a heavy price).
I never said that Do Right BJU and BJUnity were the same thing .. never. Of course DRBJU and BJUnity have similar goals in that we want to help those that BJU hurts (DRBJU with sexual abuse victims and BJUnity with those abused by BJU concerning their gender identification or their sexuality) — both organizations exist to help those being abused.
But DRBJU and BJUnity are NOT the same and DRBJU is not organized, administered, or effected in any way by BJUnity.
And yes, the majority of Christianity are homophic. I don’t believe in a “sin nature” and I don’t believe in “sin.” The Bible is filled with abuse and hate. And I am very agnostic = sometimes I believe in God, sometimes I don’t .. that’s where I am now. But my personal faith walk has nothing to do with this discussion, Gregory.
The issue is GRACE and the INVESTIGATION of sexual abuse at Bob Jones University. The reason this investigation is happening is clear: the pressure put on BJU by the alumni, especially by DRBJU. If you don’t see that then you are a fool. Jim Peet.
And Gregory, I don’t care what you think is a shame and what isn’t. I made my own path and I have to live with it. You know what makes it worth it .. knowing that victims of sexual abuse now have a voice and their stories are finally being heard. That makes everything worth it.
[Easton]“…the fundamentalist movement in general is a blight on Christianity…”
Chris — So you have said on “Not Straight TV” (October 22, 2012) where you, Chris, link DoRight BJU with BJUnity as though they were the same site with a common purpose.
You personally:
- impugned the majority of Christians as being “homophobic”
- denied that all men are born with a sin nature (calling it “illogical”)
- denied the need for redemption
- referred to the Bible as a “bully”
- referred to God as a “concept” not a Person
Of course, I don’t say these things without the proof to back them up - out of your own mouth and with your own words.
Chris, it’s a shame you threw away multiple academic years at BJU. You sat out, worked hard to earn tuition money, only to have it all stolen by BJU alumni who for one reason or another have a grudge against the school. It was you, Chris, that was abused and taken advantage of.
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
So, Mr. Frank, it’s not the preponderance of the evidence, it’s the seriousness of the allegations.
In simple terms - character doesn’t matter.
And being of good character isn’t anywhere in scripture?
Words matter. Beliefs matter. Character matters. When a group (DoRight, et al) has consistently misrepresented itself by repeatedly prevaricating, why would I believe anything they say?
[mod deletion]
Words do matter — words like liar, slut, whore — exactly the words many have heard from BJU when they explain the atrocities that happened to them.
Beliefs do matter — beliefs that the victim put him/herself in that situation, that he/she enjoyed it, that it was his/her fault — those beliefs create a culture of shame and abuse.
Character does matter — hiding abuse, shoving it under the rug, destroying people’s lives — that is their character.
[Mod deletion].
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
Hope I got it right that time, wouldn’t want the press to think we are deliberately sabotaging names here to cover up abuse. Perhaps you can add that to the long list of accusations against “fundies”: Fundy Error 18,499-they never spell our names right.
Problem I have with your response is you have the typical boilerplate response that every other do righter has: anytime a “fundy” disagrees with ANYTHING about your groups, whether it be the DRBJU, DRHAC, DRFBC et al, every fundamentalist gets accused of “you must not care about ‘victims’ and ‘typical fundy attitude trying to cover up more abuse”. It’s as if the only way to prove that fundamentalists are not trying to cover up or condone abuse, to satisfy any of you, is to abdicate everything we consider fundamental to our belief system. And if that is not your REAL agenda, then why do your groups consistently report to the media that as an example of abuse, BJU and other fundy colleges are critical of homosexuality and Catholicism?
You can’t honestly expect a fundamentalist Christian institution to change their views on homosexuality and Catholicism, but out of the thousands of colleges in this country that support those liberal and UNCHRISTIAN views, you decide to attend and a fundamentalist Christian college that you had to have known in advance did not support homosexuality or Catholicism. And if the Bible is “filled with abuse and hate” why did you go to that college in the first place? As a trained certified legal investigator, I can say the clear answer to that was you were looking to become a martyr for the cause of your atheist and homosexual buddies and to toot your own about your disgruntled attitude towards God and the Bible.
On your I-CNN page, you admitted that the 9 cases of sexual abuse were committed by one person, but yet even in this thread you admit to have had a close relationship with “ALL of the victims”, and if that were true, then you knew long in advance that those “9 cases of abuse” were all committed by one person, but yet you worded your report in such a way as to lead the public to believe these were totally separate incidents by different perpetrators that BJU swept under the rug.
I don’t doubt there are cases of abuse, I know so, but forgive me if I get a little perturbed when anti-Christian groups embelish the facts and attack fundamentalists with a clear agenda that has very little to do with victims, and everything to do with destroying the reputation and standing of fundamentalist churches and colleges throughout the world. The group names themselves are deceptive “Do Right” when you frankly could care less whether they “Do Right” or not. As the charlatan that helped start most of these groups, Joceleyn Zichterman said, “These IFB mafia need to close up shop”. It is obvious that the title you chose for your group was a tongue-in-cheek slander against Bob Jones Sr’s popular sermon.
A large amount of the people that complain of abuse in these groups (and I have painstakingly looked into literally hundreds of claims) are anywhere from 10-20 years old, and many occurred by a parent or relative in the home. So the dynamic in a cover up of those situations is largely related to fear of the parent and disbelief that a family member would commit such an act, not a result of a policy or doctrine of a church. Furthermore, many of these groups created fake profiles with fabricated stories of abuse. The group DRHAC has a leader that continues to make bold claims that she has never produced, and told media she had a bachelors in marketing from HAC (something HAC has never offered). So forgive the responses of those of us who tread carefully when evaluating and investigating claims of abuse.
And considering the detail in which fundamentalism doctrine itself is blamed for these abuses, it is clear that many years of thought went into defining fundamentalism when these groups “found their voice” and forgive me if that fact strikes me as highly skeptical, and everyone found their voices with atheists, homosexuals, Buddhists, skeptics, agnostics, new agers, all at the same time.
And you completely missed the point of the thread (Typical “do righter” mentality). The thread has nothing to do with saying that BJU should not have an outside team conduct and investigation, but a concern that in order to have a good report from the agency investigating, they may have to compromise certain tenets of their beliefs. And the intent of such a discussion would be to ameliorate any such issues so that boundaries can be defined where a proper investigation can take place without churches and colleges having to compromise. I know that doesn’t suit your agenda, but I’m not asking someone that believes the “Bible is full of abuse and hate” to believe it (1 Cor 2:14).
And finally, don’t forget that anytime these do righter groups have to offer support for their views about the corruption of fundamentalist preachers, they have to quote from an independent fundamental Baptist source who was exposing it years before any do right group was created (Robert Sumner, David Cloud for example).
And “where is the love for the hurting? where is the love for the victims”. Pardon me if fundamentalists make an effort to tell the world how to prevent spending an eternity in a burning lake of fire. Where is your love for lost sinners? Tell me how many homeless shelters DRBJU has started. How many hospitals and drug rehabs have you started? How many soup kitchens has DRBJU created? How many missionaries has DRBJU sent to Africa to help clothe and feed starving children? When Hurricane Katrina and Sandy hit, how many DRBJU admins sent bus loads of workers to help? When the earthquakes hit in Sri Lanka and Haiti, how many DRBJU members paid for airline tickets to send thousands of people to help?
I am sick of hearing all the whining from these heathen “do right” groups, that every time a fundamentalist disagrees with them about ANYTHING that we are advocating abuse. If we don’t like Obama, we are advocating abuse. If we don’t like Fords, we are advocating abuse. If we eat at Chick-Fil-A, we are advocating abuse. If we believe in God and argue with an atheist, we are advocating abuse. If someone misspelled your name, by all means he must clearly have intended to cover up abuse.
“Dr James Ach whoever you are” now you know.
Dr James Ach
What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25
**** Reminder of the comment policy ****
I removed this comment “––– are pathetic. You have done nothing of significant worth to help victims. NOTHING.”
So if you cannot follow the comment policy … drop off of you will be dropped off
Seriously.. I don’t even have the energy to respond to your drivel.
[DrJamesAch]Hope I got it right that time, wouldn’t want the press to think we are deliberately sabotaging names here to cover up abuse. Perhaps you can add that to the long list of accusations against “fundies”: Fundy Error 18,499-they never spell our names right.
Problem I have with your response is you have the typical boilerplate response that every other do righter has: anytime a “fundy” disagrees with ANYTHING about your groups, whether it be the DRBJU, DRHAC, DRFBC et al, every fundamentalist gets accused of “you must not care about ‘victims’ and ‘typical fundy attitude trying to cover up more abuse”. It’s as if the only way to prove that fundamentalists are not trying to cover up or condone abuse, to satisfy any of you, is to abdicate everything we consider fundamental to our belief system. And if that is not your REAL agenda, then why do your groups consistently report to the media that as an example of abuse, BJU and other fundy colleges are critical of homosexuality and Catholicism?
You can’t honestly expect a fundamentalist Christian institution to change their views on homosexuality and Catholicism, but out of the thousands of colleges in this country that support those liberal and UNCHRISTIAN views, you decide to attend and a fundamentalist Christian college that you had to have known in advance did not support homosexuality or Catholicism. And if the Bible is “filled with abuse and hate” why did you go to that college in the first place? As a trained certified legal investigator, I can say the clear answer to that was you were looking to become a martyr for the cause of your atheist and homosexual buddies and to toot your own about your disgruntled attitude towards God and the Bible.
On your I-CNN page, you admitted that the 9 cases of sexual abuse were committed by one person, but yet even in this thread you admit to have had a close relationship with “ALL of the victims”, and if that were true, then you knew long in advance that those “9 cases of abuse” were all committed by one person, but yet you worded your report in such a way as to lead the public to believe these were totally separate incidents by different perpetrators that BJU swept under the rug.
I don’t doubt there are cases of abuse, I know so, but forgive me if I get a little perturbed when anti-Christian groups embelish the facts and attack fundamentalists with a clear agenda that has very little to do with victims, and everything to do with destroying the reputation and standing of fundamentalist churches and colleges throughout the world. The group names themselves are deceptive “Do Right” when you frankly could care less whether they “Do Right” or not. As the charlatan that helped start most of these groups, Joceleyn Zichterman said, “These IFB mafia need to close up shop”. It is obvious that the title you chose for your group was a tongue-in-cheek slander against Bob Jones Sr’s popular sermon.
A large amount of the people that complain of abuse in these groups (and I have painstakingly looked into literally hundreds of claims) are anywhere from 10-20 years old, and many occurred by a parent or relative in the home. So the dynamic in a cover up of those situations is largely related to fear of the parent and disbelief that a family member would commit such an act, not a result of a policy or doctrine of a church. Furthermore, many of these groups created fake profiles with fabricated stories of abuse. The group DRHAC has a leader that continues to make bold claims that she has never produced, and told media she had a bachelors in marketing from HAC (something HAC has never offered). So forgive the responses of those of us who tread carefully when evaluating and investigating claims of abuse.
And considering the detail in which fundamentalism doctrine itself is blamed for these abuses, it is clear that many years of thought went into defining fundamentalism when these groups “found their voice” and forgive me if that fact strikes me as highly skeptical, and everyone found their voices with atheists, homosexuals, Buddhists, skeptics, agnostics, new agers, all at the same time.
And you completely missed the point of the thread (Typical “do righter” mentality). The thread has nothing to do with saying that BJU should not have an outside team conduct and investigation, but a concern that in order to have a good report from the agency investigating, they may have to compromise certain tenets of their beliefs. And the intent of such a discussion would be to ameliorate any such issues so that boundaries can be defined where a proper investigation can take place without churches and colleges having to compromise. I know that doesn’t suit your agenda, but I’m not asking someone that believes the “Bible is full of abuse and hate” to believe it (1 Cor 2:14).
And finally, don’t forget that anytime these do righter groups have to offer support for their views about the corruption of fundamentalist preachers, they have to quote from an independent fundamental Baptist source who was exposing it years before any do right group was created (Robert Sumner, David Cloud for example).
And “where is the love for the hurting? where is the love for the victims”. Pardon me if fundamentalists make an effort to tell the world how to prevent spending an eternity in a burning lake of fire. Where is your love for lost sinners? Tell me how many homeless shelters DRBJU has started. How many hospitals and drug rehabs have you started? How many soup kitchens has DRBJU created? How many missionaries has DRBJU sent to Africa to help clothe and feed starving children? When Hurricane Katrina and Sandy hit, how many DRBJU admins sent bus loads of workers to help? When the earthquakes hit in Sri Lanka and Haiti, how many DRBJU members paid for airline tickets to send thousands of people to help?
I am sick of hearing all the whining from these heathen “do right” groups, that every time a fundamentalist disagrees with them about ANYTHING that we are advocating abuse. If we don’t like Obama, we are advocating abuse. If we don’t like Fords, we are advocating abuse. If we eat at Chick-Fil-A, we are advocating abuse. If we believe in God and argue with an atheist, we are advocating abuse. If someone misspelled your name, by all means he must clearly have intended to cover up abuse.
“Dr James Ach whoever you are” now you know.
Christopher D. Peterman
BJU Alumnus, class of 2012 -9 days
Do Right BJU, founder
Because I am going to bed.
—
Mods may reopen tomorrow
Not likely this thread will re-open. Degenerated pretty quickly into personal quarreling. There wasn’t enough factual info to have much of a discussion to begin with.
Maybe BJU this, maybe GRACE that. Etc.
It’s BJU’s prerogative to submit themselves to the oversight of an external organization to whatever degree they believe to be right, and for whatever reasons they find compelling. In any case, the decision was made quite some time ago, (we posted about it twice last fall) and it is not going to be unmade now. There is no point speculating about why’s wherefore’s and might have beens.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
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