Maranatha's clever "I'm Gunna Apply" video
the fundamentalists I have met over the years, who are MBBC alums, spoke of BJU and their arts-related output (plays, etc.) as somehow more worldly than what MBBC would ever produce. There is a consistency to the inconsistencies over the years. I am reminded of what Ben W wrote regarding accreditation http://paleoevangelical.blogspot.com/2011/12/voices-from-past-provocati… here and http://paleoevangelical.blogspot.com/2011/12/voices-from-past-provocati… here .
SamH
And then we wonder why the young ones leave in droves?Interesting. I know more than one person who has left fundamentalism because of pervasive silliness. I know at least one other who is thinking about it.
Is putting out a fun video a sign that a ministry is drifting from God?I must repeat I have not said and do not think that Maranatha is drifting. I could offer as evidence the entertainments (skits cribbed from SNL and Cheers, a video segment of the then president mockingly participating in a minor vandalism an Academy student was kicked out for, etc) that I saw/participated in/produced when I attended 20 years ago. So a sanitized Glee video is more of the same.
Indeed the video was a marketing/advertising tactic aimed at increasing applications.I’d like to hear that testimony. “Yeah, it was between Maranatha and one other school. They both had pretty good academics and were both accredited, but then I saw this doo-wop video with a dreamy guy and a funny puppet, and I was like, forget you New Saint Andrews, I’m goin’ to Watertown!”
isn’t really my question. Sorry, Aaron ;)
I’ve been thinking about earlier posts about the standards of MBBC going downhill, and what that means for Fundamentalism in general. I’d agree with the question, but I have a different take on it.
I spent the first ten or fifteen years of my Christian life thinking that keeping the standards of Fundamentalism would make me right with God, since it automatically made me ‘right’ in the eyes of the Fundamentalist community. I would caution those of you who think that MBBC’s alleged decline is revealed (or reinforced) because of this film to take a few minutes to consider why that ‘violation’ of the ‘standards’ bothers you. Is it because MBBC does something that is clearly against Scripture? Or is it because your personal standards (or the standards that are forced on you by the Christians you choose to associate with) don’t match up with what’s portrayed in the video? If it’s the latter, then are you living by the Bible, or by the standards? In short - are you living to please God or are you living to earn your own salvation and standing in the Christian community by upholding taboos?
I know I’m going to get jumped on for this, but living in a way to uphold standards can keep a person from living in a way that would be pleasing to God because the standards are more important, adding ‘works’ to ‘faith’. We’d all agree that we need to live in a way to please the Lord in all we say and do (I Cor. 10:31), but then we get our feathers ruffled because someone ‘in the camp’ looks like they have stepped out of line and our praxis has been violated. Discernment, separation and standards are all important - don’t get me wrong on that - but it seems like 95% of the talk on this is far more concerned with whether or not MBBC is ‘safe enough’ to send our children to than it is about the video.
I have not seen the video, nor do I have any real desire to. My judgment of whether or not MBBC is a ‘good school’ will not rest on the kinds of slick promo materials that they can produce; it should rest on whether or not they are training Christians that are going to be useful for God. They can have a whole city full of people that uphold our standards and “live for God”, but who have no heart for God or any interest in doing what he says - read the OT prophets and Jesus’ interactions with Israel in the Gospel.
I’ve said enough now on the subject, but I just wanted to note that the preoccupation with whether or not MBBC’s standards are slipping seems to indicate that we’re far more concerned with the standards than we are with living in a way to please the Lord.
I’ve been thinking about earlier posts about the standards of MBBC going downhill, and what that means for Fundamentalism in general. I’d agree with the question, but I have a different take on it.
I spent the first ten or fifteen years of my Christian life thinking that keeping the standards of Fundamentalism would make me right with God, since it automatically made me ‘right’ in the eyes of the Fundamentalist community. I would caution those of you who think that MBBC’s alleged decline is revealed (or reinforced) because of this film to take a few minutes to consider why that ‘violation’ of the ‘standards’ bothers you. Is it because MBBC does something that is clearly against Scripture? Or is it because your personal standards (or the standards that are forced on you by the Christians you choose to associate with) don’t match up with what’s portrayed in the video? If it’s the latter, then are you living by the Bible, or by the standards? In short - are you living to please God or are you living to earn your own salvation and standing in the Christian community by upholding taboos?
I know I’m going to get jumped on for this, but living in a way to uphold standards can keep a person from living in a way that would be pleasing to God because the standards are more important, adding ‘works’ to ‘faith’. We’d all agree that we need to live in a way to please the Lord in all we say and do (I Cor. 10:31), but then we get our feathers ruffled because someone ‘in the camp’ looks like they have stepped out of line and our praxis has been violated. Discernment, separation and standards are all important - don’t get me wrong on that - but it seems like 95% of the talk on this is far more concerned with whether or not MBBC is ‘safe enough’ to send our children to than it is about the video.
I have not seen the video, nor do I have any real desire to. My judgment of whether or not MBBC is a ‘good school’ will not rest on the kinds of slick promo materials that they can produce; it should rest on whether or not they are training Christians that are going to be useful for God. They can have a whole city full of people that uphold our standards and “live for God”, but who have no heart for God or any interest in doing what he says - read the OT prophets and Jesus’ interactions with Israel in the Gospel.
I’ve said enough now on the subject, but I just wanted to note that the preoccupation with whether or not MBBC’s standards are slipping seems to indicate that we’re far more concerned with the standards than we are with living in a way to please the Lord.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Jay, I don’t see that the Bible says anything about judging the ethos of a college promo video. Are you enforcing a man-made standard?
I think we can safely conclude that the overall impact of the video has not been what was most likely intended. Therefore it is a legitimate question to ask, if, when we use humor of any stripe, does it enhance or detract from one’s designed purpose?
We should always carefully scrutinize our methods and weigh them with our audience and message. Both consciously and unconsciously, we deem some things as appropriate and inappropriate, often based on cultural norms. But cultural norms are NOT our primary standard. If we don’t occasionally stop and ponder what it is we are actually doing, in every situation and at every level, we have stopped exercising discernment.
I’m the first to want to inject levity into just about every situation. First, because I react to stress with humor, regardless of the source- from funerals to broken bones. Second, because I have a highly evolved funny bone. Third, I am a hillbilly at heart and have a lot of ‘dirt between my toes’. This is a lethal combination, so I have been rebuked on more than one occasion (here and elsewhere) for injecting humor in an inappropriate manner or at an improper time. At some point, I began to listen to what people were telling me, especially when I realized that sometimes people paid more attention to how I said something instead of the points I was trying to make. This happens especially when there is no personal relationship to provide context and therefore understanding. I took those rebukes and encouragements under advisement, and have taken steps to change some of my communication habits, especially online.
There is a point at which hilarity, however hilarious, becomes unproductive and distracting, and IMO this is often the result of the humor not ‘matching’ the message. Is that the case with this video? If its intention was just to be a spoof of Christian college- which is what I thought about it- then okeydokey, I think it hit its mark. But as a recruitment tool? Not so much.
We should always carefully scrutinize our methods and weigh them with our audience and message. Both consciously and unconsciously, we deem some things as appropriate and inappropriate, often based on cultural norms. But cultural norms are NOT our primary standard. If we don’t occasionally stop and ponder what it is we are actually doing, in every situation and at every level, we have stopped exercising discernment.
I’m the first to want to inject levity into just about every situation. First, because I react to stress with humor, regardless of the source- from funerals to broken bones. Second, because I have a highly evolved funny bone. Third, I am a hillbilly at heart and have a lot of ‘dirt between my toes’. This is a lethal combination, so I have been rebuked on more than one occasion (here and elsewhere) for injecting humor in an inappropriate manner or at an improper time. At some point, I began to listen to what people were telling me, especially when I realized that sometimes people paid more attention to how I said something instead of the points I was trying to make. This happens especially when there is no personal relationship to provide context and therefore understanding. I took those rebukes and encouragements under advisement, and have taken steps to change some of my communication habits, especially online.
There is a point at which hilarity, however hilarious, becomes unproductive and distracting, and IMO this is often the result of the humor not ‘matching’ the message. Is that the case with this video? If its intention was just to be a spoof of Christian college- which is what I thought about it- then okeydokey, I think it hit its mark. But as a recruitment tool? Not so much.
[DavidO] Jay, I don’t see that the Bible says anything about judging the ethos of a college promo video. Are you enforcing a man-made standard?
David, I think you’re missing my point. My point is that the reaction to the video is betraying a preoccupation with keeping the “cultural” norms; For all the discussion about the video and it’s effects, it’s pretty obvious that very, very few (if any) of the comments aren’t comparing the content with Scripture, but are concerned with whether or not it’s acceptable in the commenter’s eyes. If it’s in violation of the “ethos”, then tell me where the Scriptural commands and principles are violated; that’s where we should be discerning the value of what is and isn’t acceptable. Blanket references to ‘being worldly’ don’t work and bog down the discussion because one man’s definition of ‘worldliness’ may not be the same as another’s, which is why almost all of these discussions about culture (both ours and the secular world’s) that begin on SI end up with both sides talking past each other.
I could care less about what the video says or contains; I’m interested in what the motives are for the criticism or praise. There are two different discussions occurring on this thread - one about the film, and one about the standards portrayed in the film, and it’s been fascinating to watch the disconnect.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Susan R] I think we can safely conclude that the overall impact of the video has not been what was most likely intended. Therefore it is a legitimate question to ask, if, when we use humor of any stripe, does it enhance or detract from one’s designed purpose?Perhaps it is accomplishing exactly like it was intended!
- Who’s “the audience”?
- Not me. I’m 62. I’m not likely to apply!
- Parents who wouldn’t have sent their kids to MBBC anyway? (BJU leaners, etc). Nope!
- Pastors? (The sharp-eyed critics who are looking to see if a school has slipped.) Perhaps. But in reality they don’t send other peoples’ kids to college (they may think they do but they don’t). They can function as a type of “gatekeeper” - “will I let the MBBC Praisemen present the MBBC ministry this year?” I doubt that the Pastors who already have a predisposition to “open the gate” to MBBC will close it. Some who have an anti-MBBC predisposition will use this as an excuse to keep them out
- Not me. I’m 62. I’m not likely to apply!
- I suggest that the audience is the 15-18 year old church kid. And to those who view it (probably on-line) it will make them think!
I could care less about what the video says or contains; I’m interested in what the motives are for the criticism or praise.Not sure you can discern/judge the latter without knowing the former.
However, a loose consensus (from all over the ecclesiastical map) says the video is Glee-ish. Seminary faculty members perform a chorus line type choreography.
Among the principles I would cite are (admittedly mild) conformity to a notable TV show promoting the spirit of the age and the sobriety of elder Christian men.
Beyond that, what is Maranatha selling? My son can go to the state university up the road and get a superior academic education. (And I seriously doubt any of the faculty that I’ve met at that state U would take time out of their schedule to lampoon themselves.) All Maranatha has to offer is a Christian culture in which to receive a decent education (which, again, one can get anywhere). They’re telling us what to expect from them (whether or not the video matches the prevailing culture on campus is another thing entirely).
David, I’m not *judging* anyone. I’m asking people to consider what’s going on in their own heads and hearts. Have I said that the people who are criticizing the video are wrong, or that the MBBC defenders are right?
All I’m saying is that if people are saying the video is bad because the standards that they hold to are not being met by another organization, then is the concern really about the video or about the standards?
I’ve never seen Glee and have no real desire to see it, so to say that the video is wrong because it’s ‘glee-ish’ isn’t helpful. Is there some kind of Scriptural standard that Glee violates? I can’t tell without either assuming that you’re right to say that Glee is wrong or watching the show and learning about it. That’s the problem - the reaction to X (in this case, the video) is based on your standard, not on what the Bible says. Since I don’t know your standard, I can’t discern whether or not the video is good. Even if I did know your standard, how do I know that it’s a right standard? Because you say it is?
Do you see what I’m talking about now?
All I’m saying is that if people are saying the video is bad because the standards that they hold to are not being met by another organization, then is the concern really about the video or about the standards?
I’ve never seen Glee and have no real desire to see it, so to say that the video is wrong because it’s ‘glee-ish’ isn’t helpful. Is there some kind of Scriptural standard that Glee violates? I can’t tell without either assuming that you’re right to say that Glee is wrong or watching the show and learning about it. That’s the problem - the reaction to X (in this case, the video) is based on your standard, not on what the Bible says. Since I don’t know your standard, I can’t discern whether or not the video is good. Even if I did know your standard, how do I know that it’s a right standard? Because you say it is?
Do you see what I’m talking about now?
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
[Jay C.] David, I’m not *judging* anyone.The following is a judgment. Of comments, not commenters, eh, thin.
very, very few (if any) of the comments are[n’t] comparing the content with Scripture, but are concerned with whether or not it’s acceptable in the commenter’s eyes.
I’ve never seen Glee and have no real desire to see it, so to say that the video is wrong because it’s ‘glee-ish’ isn’t helpful. Is there some kind of Scriptural standard that Glee violates? I can’t tell without either assuming that you’re right to say that Glee is wrong or watching the show and learning about it. That’s the problem - the reaction to X (in this case, the video) is based on your standard, not on what the Bible says. Since I don’t know your standard, I can’t discern whether or not the video is good. Even if I did know your standard, how do I know that it’s a right standard? Because you say it is?I’ve never seen Glee either. And I hope you’re not serious about the rest of this. I haven’t seen tons of movies or shows that ought not be models for Christian entertainments/advertisements. Don’t need to. Do I?
Do you see what I’m talking about now?
[Jim Peet] I suggest that the audience is the 15-18 year old church kid. And to those who view it (probably on-line) it will make them think!Now we’re getting to the heart of the matter.
What of any substance will this video make that demographic think?
What of any substance will this video make that demographic think?I suppose it might make them think about registering for college.
I suppose then they might look into MBBC a little closer to see if that might be the place for them to go.
I suppose it might actually be doing exactly what it was intended to do.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
This was to inform people that 1) MBBC exists and 2)you can apply there.
Got it.
Got it.
[DavidO]Well, maybe. I am sympathizing slightly with the MBBC defenders, but neither side has really come out and wowed me with reasons why I should or shouldn’t care about a promo video that is going to be little more than a relic in five years and how that video is symbolic of the decline and fall of the Maranathan empire.[Jay C.] David, I’m not *judging* anyone.The following is a judgment. Of comments, not commenters, eh, thin.
I’ve never seen Glee either. And I hope you’re not serious about the rest of this. I haven’t seen tons of movies or shows that ought not be models for Christian entertainments/advertisements. Don’t need to. Do I?
No, because there are lots of movies and shows that are clearly in violation of passages like Eph. 4:17-5:20…That’s easy. We personally don’t watch TV shows (we do have a DVD and VHS player), because they’d keep my wife and I from using our time wisely (again, Ephesians 5:16). Those are the standards that I’ve come up with and can support with clear Scripture.
The complaint that the video ‘is worldly’ doesn’t tell me anything (as an ignorant bystander) about the content of the video. Christians are commanded to avoid being like the world (Rom. 12:1-2, I John 2:15), but just slapping a label of ‘worldly’ on it doesn’t mean that it’s in violation of Scripture, especially when you and I (and the others) haven’t defined the world.
To expand my point a little - The amish think we are ‘worldly’ for using TVs and computers - but you and I would disagree with them. Why is that? Because the subjective definition of ‘worldly’ by the amish isn’t the definition of ‘worldly’ that you or I would use. That’s my issue…the definition of ‘worldly’ is subjective. My whole point is that if there is something that is sin or sinful, it must be that way because it is contrary to the objective truths of Scripture. Instead, you and I are wrangling about subjective definitions (‘world’ and ‘worldliness’), and I think I can safely say that we are both a little frustrated about it. We’re talking past each other.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
Are we really saying that young people today are basically silly, especially when it comes to choosing a place of Christian higher education? What about this video would actually inspire anyone to look more into MBBC over other colleges? That’s the question that keeps coming up in my mind. I guarantee that this video would not at all appeal to my kids in the area of deciding where to go to college. I would assume that no matter where one attended college, there would be people there with a sense of humor, and that there would be occasions for fun.
I don’t think the Glee comparison has merit, by the way. Glee, High School Musical, etc… didn’t invent the concept of doing a song and dance in a bid for attention or to entertain. As a video for entertainment purposes, it works. As a bid for registrations, it doesn’t work for me at all, because I would not view the ‘party school’ factor as a unique or primary basis for appeal.
I don’t think the Glee comparison has merit, by the way. Glee, High School Musical, etc… didn’t invent the concept of doing a song and dance in a bid for attention or to entertain. As a video for entertainment purposes, it works. As a bid for registrations, it doesn’t work for me at all, because I would not view the ‘party school’ factor as a unique or primary basis for appeal.
Discussion