Maranatha's clever "I'm Gunna Apply" video

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Jim's picture

From way back at the top of this thread:

Quote:
This is what you get when you cross Glee with Walmart.

First of all about Walmart. It's one of the world's great companies that has brought distribution efficiencies and lower costs to customers worldwide! I'm proud to be a shareholder. Pays a nice 2.6% dividend ( http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=wmt&ql=1 ]WMT )

I've never seen Glee but am aware of it from a non-viewer (not even once) standpoint.

I doubt there is any more correlation between the MBBC video and "Glee" then there is from a women's missionary fellowship and "Desperate Housewives" (Which I have also never viewed once!)

DavidO's picture

Quote:
Sounds like something from Oklahoma! or Music Man

Not at all really; but it does sound very like something from the group http://www.acappella.org/acappella/ Acapella , whose CD's were banned when I went to MBBC in the early 90s.

Quote:
Anyone who says they can't see the difference between Marantha's and Liberty's videos is just being ridiculous! Perhaps they would also have trouble telling the difference between a BJU orchestra cd and a guns and roses cd.

What if the difference between the first two is merely one of degree while the difference between the latter is one of type/kind?

Quote:
Well, I never knew "sober-minded" meant "no fun."

I don't think anyone is advocating for excluding fun altogether. It's when, where, what kind, for what purpose, etc.

DavidO's picture

Quote:
First of all about Walmart. It's one of the world's great companies that has brought distribution efficiencies and lower costs to customers worldwide!

At the cost of purchase options and localized culture.

Jim's picture

DavidO wrote:
Quote:
First of all about Walmart. It's one of the world's great companies that has brought distribution efficiencies and lower costs to customers worldwide!

At the cost of purchase options and localized culture.

It's called the free market. Plus with the Internet and free shipping (Amazon) one can buy anything

Free Market:

  • Free to shop there (or not)
  • Free to work there (or not)
  • Free to sell to WM (or not)
DavidO's picture

Well, we're drifting from the topic--my fault. But I reject the notion that Walmart coupled with Amazon (both of which I patronize regularly) is an equal substitute for a community economy offering unique and diverse goods.

Jim's picture

On behalf of the investors, employees, suppliers, and shoppers; I am simply defending a company I am proud to be associated with!

Wal-Mart has over 1.5 million associates worldwide. More than 138 million customers per week shop at Wal-Mart stores worldwide.

Jim's picture

I don't think MBBC has drifted. I think it is a great school. I'm OK with the video

And that's the last I'm gunna say on the subject

DavidO's picture

Jim Peet wrote:
I don't think MBBC has drifted.

Drifted can mean a lot of things, some more serious than others, but I'd actually agree with this specific statement, the Acappella sound notwithstanding.

SamH's picture

if I wunt and applied, would any of these be my Philosophy, Theology, or Bible profs/instructors? Any dept. heads here? (I actually do not know who they are.)

http://www.faithwebsites.com/wsbc/acadmeic excllence.jpg ]Who A capture of their own video...I promise.

SamH

Susan R's picture

I don't think it is the presence of levity that is a concern, but the predominance of levity in our culture. Unless it's entertaining, many (if not most) people simply do not want to read, listen, or watch anything. And if one is trying to convey a message of substance, does the humor serve to further the message, or does it distract from it?

Greg Long's picture

SamH wrote:
if I wunt and applied, would any of these be my Philosophy, Theology, or Bible profs/instructors? Any dept. heads here? (I actually do not know who they are.)

http://www.faithwebsites.com/wsbc/acadmeic excllence.jpg ]Who A capture of their own video...I promise.


Maybe! One of the many things I appreciated about many of my professors at Faith Baptist Bible College and Seminary was their senses of humor, including Drs. Houghton, Houghton, Hartog, Turk, etc. I'm glad they didn't take themselves too seriously.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Pastor Joe Roof's picture

It was a fun video and there is room for ministries to have fun, believe it or not. And, there is room for people to laugh with the them.

Too make a judgement that a school's standards are slipping because they produce one clean and humorous is video hyper-judgemental.

Brenda T's picture

I don't have an opinion pro or con regarding the video -- just weighing the comments at this time. However, when comments expressing and articulating specific concerns regarding the video are answered simply with "But it's fun" that makes the arguments in favor of the video less convincing.

SamH's picture

Hyper-space
In my stupid little posts, I have specifically not spoken vis-a-vis MBBC's "standards." I do understand those concerns. (For context, I am assuming “standards” are defined in light of holiness v. sinfulness). I am however dismayed at how some rather quickly resort to “hyper”-speak when describing someone who may view the video with holiness/sinfulness concerns. Does this mean that even to think in those “standards” terms is not just a bad idea, but possibly unbiblical, or some other category of error? Is it too much a stretch to perceive that “hyper-judgemental” [sic ] is meant to draw from Matt. 6, Luke 7 (hence my term “unbiblical”)? If such was not meant, I withdraw it, but wonder what such an inference ultimately would then mean.” That is the context in which we generally see or use that specific technical term—“judgmental.”

But, if that is what was meant, then umm, “Wow.” So, if someone is concerned that this video is or may be somehow a biblically offensive thingie they are themselves biblical violators? Is this what is meant when we say that with “tolerance” apparently comes intolerance? I’m not sure. I would hazard that someone thought my other post to be intolerant. To be sure, my use of language in my longer previous post was meant to be hyperbolic, demonstrative and provocative, hence the pre-vomitus reference, etc. But I meant it to show my disgust about two issues, which are actually one. But more on that at the end. (The terms “glurge” “dog’s breakfast” and “doggerel” had been vying for inclusion in my first philippic, but there were too many Gs and too many “dogs” so I stopped where I did.)

“Hyper-judgemental”ists [sic ] take heart. You should at least wonder if there is something morally deficient in the contents and message of the video. That is what Christians do, we examine stuff to see if it passes muster. We do need to do so on biblical grounds, with specific scriptural references or necessary implications/inferences based on doctrine. If you can do so on those bases, then one might hope you would receive a hearing without any “hyper” references.

Surprise!?
This video is what many of us expect of the MBBCs of Christendom. It is what they sometimes are and do now. That is their prerogative—and in granting that I think we are sanctioned to offer critique about what they are and do. And I do hope to do so in a meaningful way. However harsh this all may sound, there are many things MBBC is and does for which I am grateful. But, a few more words, and I will stop assaulting you pixelly.

Worldliness
What is interesting is that some quickly dismiss the notion that this video may/should raise questions of propriety (biblical or otherwise) in some minds. Does such brusqueness or apathy disturb anyone? A thought or two:

A pastor and friend (a seminary instructor and aide to that seminary’s titular leader) http://mpriley.com/?s=worldliness ]once wrote on worldliness . He used an example from Richard Weaver: Is it worthwhile and compulsory to investigate the convenience of the use of an automobile for individuals, and automobiles for a society? Or do certain factors necessitate with unquestioned certainty the use of automobiles, even though they carry with them moral complications and danger? (Cars play a large part in human death and incur various other not-insignificant societal costs each year). His contention (if I understand him rightly) is that the Christian of all persons should be willing to subject all areas of life to careful moral examination—especially in those areas as relates to our “culture.” So then, to fail to think critically about the morals of the conveniences of our society and of our culture is then to be worldly. Why? Because only the world assumes there are no moral implications for human ideas and actions. Thus, if someone wants to discuss MBBC’s video and “worldliness” I would begin with that facet of it—separate of what we have traditionally intoned as “standards.”

I posit this: because of the pressures to maintain a school(s), and to grow it(them) numerically, we will likely see a decreasing sobriety/seriousness with a mounting worldliness (as I have discussed above) in “our” institutions. I pray that it will go otherwise, but…well, we’ll see. (There is a passel of information out there to back up my concerns. We fundies might not have responded properly to the increasing worldliness in broader Christianity and Christendom, but the fact that doctrinal and practical slides occurred among them has certainly been documented—that is undeniable.) As a pastor, there is always pressure to be pragmatic—we’re not alone in this struggle.

Seriousness

To dismiss the video as not being serious, but fun is to perhaps miss the point. In light of maintenance and growth of the school, this video is meant to be serious—a serious attempt at marketing to children who hunger for a school that is “cool” and not just “fun.” (Do the “kids” still use that kind of slang? Dunno.) There are other carrots presented; I seem to recall the following proffered as incentive for attending MBBC: “I’m the type of guy who likes success”(to be the Big Cheese as the desk sign said); “I wanna get a real degree”; “all of the new classes I’ll take”; “all the new friends I’ll make”; “while eating my Friday-night-steak”; “not to feel that I’ve been robbed, ‘cuz when I’m done I’ll get a real job”(and not be homeless by videographical inference); “and I’ll feel so satisfied”; and “maybe you’ll find that one to marry.” These are all things that young people (and even we oldies) desire. Most of these were my own impetus for advanced schooling, when I was a black-hearted little pagan God-hater, BTW.

But, what of: God, Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit, slavehood, Lordship, grace, faith, the “Commission,” sunathleo, agonizomai,, to live is Christ, to die is gain—what of “the Faith?”

It is missing.

Ah, you say “I heard ‘…and learn my theology…’, and I think I saw Dr. Oates lip-dubbing ‘…maybe even seminary…’ so—so there you pharisaical cultural fundamentalist curmudgeon! Yeah! Yeah! There was Jesus-stuff, and things like that.”

Well, there you go—ya got me dead to rights. Good on ya then…seriously.

SamH

JG's picture

Thanks, Sam. Especially for this:

Quote:
But, what of: God, Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit, slavehood, Lordship, grace, faith, the “Commission,” sunathleo, agonizomai,, to live is Christ, to die is gain—what of “the Faith?”

The appeal was all wrong. And even my son could see it, but most of SI apparently couldn't (though they are supposedly older and wiser).

Rob Fall's picture

First, the music, to my ear, is based on the Barbershop Quartet style. MBBC men's groups (The Messengers come to mind) have a tradition of singing BQ arrangements.
Second, it is a "light hearted" promo. So, it isn't as serious as a heart attack.
And I'll withhold my third.

R.K. Fall, BA, MBBC, '81

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

Greg Long's picture

JG wrote:
Thanks, Sam. Especially for this:

Quote:
But, what of: God, Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit, slavehood, Lordship, grace, faith, the “Commission,” sunathleo, agonizomai,, to live is Christ, to die is gain—what of “the Faith?”

The appeal was all wrong. And even my son could see it, but most of SI apparently couldn't (though they are supposedly older and wiser).


Sorry for not seeing what "even your son" could see. Sorry for not being wiser.

If this were the only promotional material available and the only method of appeal MBBC has made, I could see your point. But it is not, and so I do not.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Rob Fall's picture

I agree with Greg. Along with the oatmeal, MBBC threw in some raisins brown sugar.

Greg Long wrote:
If this were the only promotional material available and the only method of appeal MBBC has made, I could see your point. But it is not, and so I do not.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

SamH's picture

is why the wide and long shot of the puppeteer in the last "marching up the street" scene show him with the Wierd Al Yankovic wig (actual hair?) but he isn't wearing it/showing it in the close up cameos (homeless guy)? Or is it a different guy scene to scene? Do they allow that kind of hair length at Maranatha now?

SamH

Pastor Joe Roof's picture

Quote:
A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
- Proverbs 17:22

It's o.k. to have some humor and some laughing.

Brenda T's picture

Is this video like one of those inside jokes or "you had to be there" to appreciate the humor type of thing? Maybe I missed the humor and didn't laugh at the video simply because I don't know any of the people in it.

So, what parts are funny? Is it the men in suits imitating The Village People? Is it the jobless/homeless looking guy with the handmade cardboard sign? (BTW, if you've ever seen a person standing on a street corner holding a "work wanted" sign, it's not funny. Being without a job and/or a home isn't laughable -- at least not where I live.)

I've got no beef against Maranatha. I have no doubt that many of their graduates are faithfully serving the Lord and that many of their current students and employees genuinely love and serve the Lord. But, I don't "get" the video. That's all. And, just telling me that it's "funny, light-hearted, or clever" doesn't help me "get" it either. I guess I'm not their target audience.

Charlie's picture

Sometimes I really don't understand SI, particularly why certain topics generate the attention they do, and why others do not.

My Blog: http://dearreaderblog.com

Cor meum tibi offero Domine prompte et sincere. ~ John Calvin

Jim's picture

Charlie wrote:
Sometimes I really don't understand SI, particularly why certain topics generate the attention they do, and why others do not.

A quirk of Fundamentalism is that it excites passion over the fringes of what is really important

Brent Marshall's picture

We are not connecting.

No one is arguing that fun and humor are inherently wrong, so the multiple posts generally defending, even lauding, fun and humor are missing the point. Similarly, references to professors with senses of humor who do not take themselves too seriously are missing the point. How is this not a straw man?

Pastor Joe Roof wrote:
Quote:
A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
- Proverbs 17:22
It's o.k. to have some humor and some laughing.

Is this humor and laughing what the Scriptures, and especially this Scripture, mean by joy? Don't we need to interpret before we apply? And unless we are prepared to argue that all humor and laughing is acceptable and appropriate--and I will credit everyone here with recognizing that as utter nonsense--then we need to distinguish between what is acceptable and appropriate and what is not. How does this Scripture reference help us do so? How is this not dangerous hermeneutics?

Greg Long wrote:
JG wrote:
The appeal was all wrong. And even my son could see it, but most of SI apparently couldn't (though they are supposedly older and wiser).

Sorry for not seeing what "even your son" could see. Sorry for not being wiser.

If this were the only promotional material available and the only method of appeal MBBC has made, I could see your point. But it is not, and so I do not.


But, Greg, in thinking this you have implicitly presumed that this method of appeal is inherently acceptable, which is a key issue here. You seem to have left no room for the possibility of inherent problems with the methodology. Rather, you seem have room for a problem only if the methodology is overused.

SamH wrote:
But, what of: God, Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit, slavehood, Lordship, grace, faith, the “Commission,” sunathleo, agonizomai,, to live is Christ, to die is gain—what of “the Faith?”

It is missing.


Indeed, Sam. In that vein the contrast between the sentiment of this video and of the institution's http://www.mbbc.edu/about/mission ]mission statement is striking.

Things That Matter

As the quantity of communication increases, so does its quality decline; and the most important sign of this is that it is no longer acceptable to say so.--RScruton

Greg Long's picture

Brent Marshall wrote:
We are not connecting.

No one is arguing that fun and humor are inherently wrong, so the multiple posts generally defending, even lauding, fun and humor are missing the point. Similarly, references to professors with senses of humor who do not take themselves too seriously are missing the point. How is this not a straw man?

Pastor Joe Roof wrote:
Quote:
A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
- Proverbs 17:22
It's o.k. to have some humor and some laughing.

Is this humor and laughing what the Scriptures, and especially this Scripture, mean by joy? Don't we need to interpret before we apply? And unless we are prepared to argue that all humor and laughing is acceptable and appropriate--and I will credit everyone here with recognizing that as utter nonsense--then we need to distinguish between what is acceptable and appropriate and what is not. How does this Scripture reference help us do so? How is this not dangerous hermeneutics?

Greg Long wrote:
JG wrote:
The appeal was all wrong. And even my son could see it, but most of SI apparently couldn't (though they are supposedly older and wiser).

Sorry for not seeing what "even your son" could see. Sorry for not being wiser.

If this were the only promotional material available and the only method of appeal MBBC has made, I could see your point. But it is not, and so I do not.


But, Greg, in thinking this you have implicitly presumed that this method of appeal is inherently acceptable, which is a key issue here. You seem to have left no room for the possibility of inherent problems with the methodology. Rather, you seem have room for a problem only if the methodology is overused.
No, I always leave room for inherent problems with methodology. I just don't think there are inherent problems with people singing and acting out a fun song about college life on a video.

I traveled for two summers on a "Summer Ministry Team" for Faith Baptist Bible College. We ministered at camps and sang in churches. Most of our ministry in churches involved singing and preaching. At camps we sang, preached, and counseled. But you know what? We also did some fun skits. I even wrote a skit for us called "A Day in the Life of a College Student." It was pure fun (although it did talk about sitting in class, sitting in chapel, etc.). Sometimes teens want to see that they can go to a Christian college (especially a conversative one like Faith) and actually have fun. Sometimes we even did that skit (shhh...don't tell anyone!) for teens at a church, say in a Sunday School class. We also did some skits/dramas during church services that were more spiritually focused but did include some humor.

Now, I'm certainly not one who sees drama playing a central role (get it?) in church worship. Preaching must always be central. The skits that we did were like 5-10% of our total ministry; the vast majority of it was singing and preaching.

So maybe I see this video in the context of my background on summer ministry teams.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Joel Shaffer's picture

Quote:
So, what parts are funny? Is it the men in suits imitating The Village People? Is it the jobless/homeless looking guy with the handmade cardboard sign? (BTW, if you've ever seen a person standing on a street corner holding a "work wanted" sign, it's not funny. Being without a job and/or a home isn't laughable -- at least not where I live.)

I actually liked it and saw these parts as funny. I've ministered in the inner-city among the poor for 20 years and so from time to time I actually deal with folks that hold a jobless/homeless sign on a street corner, most of which have addictions. I spend alot of time trying to educate "guilty-feeling" Christians from giving to panhandlers because they are doing more harm than good. Here is my mentor and former boss speaking about giving to panhandlers. http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/grand_rapids/Tack-ArtPrize-draws-pa...

Back to the topic.... Even though I am quite sensitive to the plight of the poor and homeless and it can be a life and death situation, I really had no problem with the video making light of the situation that had nothing to do with people that are the real homeless and hungry. It lightheartedly exaggerated the point that those who come out of a fundy institution with a degree that is not accredited are going to struggle with getting a job in their field of study (unless you are a pastor or Christian school teacher at an IFB church or school) In truth, I have had several friends who felt led to a fundy college that was not accredited and they came out with a degree that was useless in the real world. They had spent several thousands of $ on it and then realized they were hoodwinked.

As for being sober-minded and serious about our faith and the gospel (which I believe is very important), this does not cause me to wonder if they lack these qualities at MBBC, especially if it as Greg mentions, as only one aspect of their marketing and who they are. In fact, I would not be able to send my kids to a college or to a church that takes itself too seriously where they feel they couldn't risk doing a video like this. Laughter is very much a big part of our family because we constantly have to deal with serious issues in relationship with my ministry. I constantly have to deal with issues of gang violence that often leads to death, teen pregnancies and STD's, single-moms that lose their jobs-and are constantly one step away from becoming homeless, drug and alcohol addicted parents, and the list goes on and on. If at times we were not able to laugh through a few of these serious things, we would always be crying about them. One of my favorite comics Bob Newhart once said "Laughter gives us distance. It allows us to step back from an event, deal with it, and move on."

In fact, this video broke some stereotypes for me. My Michigan/Indiana GARBC fundy background is not as culturally conservative as others within fundamentalism so I had some biases against a school like MBBC thinking it was too conservative. However, the music was very well done, they can wear real, but modest clothes, they don't cut corners on the food (Steak on Fridays), they are accredited, they aren't afraid to take a cultural risk.... in the eyes of some fundamentalists at least (as long as it does not violate scripture) and even face unwarranted criticism.

Of course, if my kids or if any of my inner-city students were to take an interest in MBBC, we would visit the campus to meet the professors and sit in on their classes, we would connect with other students and observe the atmosphere on campus. I think we'd get a good idea if the faculty and students are also sober-minded and serious about Jesus and the gospel. But from the video, we'd know that they are image-bearers of God and because of that they can have a little fun and laugh.

_____________________________

http://www.utmgr.org/blog_index.html

DavidO's picture

Someone I consider wise and who has had a very large impact on me regarding things of this nature once said something I will never forget.

Quote:
Silly people are silly about even those things they think they take seriously.

This does not mean there is never a time for a joke or humor. To so assert is to build a straw man. It implies the legitimate question of how affect is developed, how sensibilities are educated, both of which are rarely given much thought by evangelicals/fundamentalists.

Just because objections are not on our radar screens or our personal experience biases us toward acceptance of a given action does not mean we ought to let it go unexamined, or summarily dismiss those who would ask us to examine it.

Chip Van Emmerik's picture

DavidO wrote:
Quote:
Silly people are silly about even those things they think they take seriously.

This does not mean there is never a time for a joke or humor.

David,

You contradict yourself here. How do you determine which time this is - the one that's ok or the one that's not ok?

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

SamH's picture

Guys, I’m bettered by essential real, intelligent natural genius.

Piled high, it’s like, I see their intelligence now easily, so…

Unless nothing's clarified, look elsewhere...

SamH

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