Was Tina Anderson at Fault? A Biblical/Cultural Analysis
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Was Tina Anderson at fault? A Biblical/Cultural Analysis
My purpose in starting this thread is to address a critical issue. The matter of Tina Anderson, Chuck Phelps, et al., has provoked several threads, lengthy discussions, and of course, a 20/20 broadcast. It is NOT my intent in this post to question Pastor Phelps’ judgment (though that is an unavoidable side-effect of this post), but rather to use the debate his judgment has provoked as a jumping-off point.
Bob Bixby has already written elsewhere, brilliantly defending the logic of not blaming Tina Anderson for her rape (yes, I know I am using the term argumentatively).
Dave Doran has posted here at SI reminding us of the importance of a). not becoming so caught up in the details that we forget a very personal tragedy occurred, and b). remembering that our obligations of testimony require us to act in a way that does not bring shame on the cause of Christ before the world. By dissecting the particulars of the case and questioning our society’s judgment in setting ages of consent where it does, we shame ourselves and our Savior before this world.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of these fine men.
But I also understand the seriousness of answering the challenge that some have made in this matter. I want to spend some time giving a Biblical defense of the idea that it is not satisfactory to place blame on Tina Anderson in any way for what happened to her, and to argue that there is serious Biblical basis for arguing that Mr. Willis should have been asked to confess the crime of raping Tina Anderson rather than merely confessing a generic adultery before the church.
The argument being made by some can be summed up fairly in this way: “In a case where a teenaged girl of 15 years of age consents to sexual activity with an adult in his 30’s, it may not be quite appropriate to call it rape or molestation from a Biblical perspective. While the law would interpret it as such, the ages at which people were allowed and encouraged to marry in Biblical (and even Colonial) times would suggest that this is an arbitrary choice (though we all admit law must be specific). Therefore, in keeping “Biblical” and “Legal” categories separate, it may have been appropriate for Pastor Phelps to a). ask Mr. Willis to confess to the sin of adultery only, and b). place some responsibility upon Tina Anderson for her own actions in the matter.”
I add that the idea that Pastor Phelps did this point b). cannot be disputed. Whether Pastor Phelps intended Tina Anderson’s statement as a confession under discipline or not, the very act of not requiring Mr. Willis to confess to rape, and the very act of requiring her to admit that she was pregnant without putting her pregnancy in a rape context places some responsibility on Tina Anderson.
In refuting the above position, I present the following:
First, I would argue that we must take into account the words of our Lord in Matthew 18. In that passage, we find that anyone who causes one of these children to offend is subject to one of the most horrifying threats of judgment our Savior ever gave. Note, please that it is possible to lay blame for a child’s offense at the feet of an adult. The adult can “cause them to offend”.
Some are going to object because they would feel that the case of Tina Anderson is older than the children referred to by our Savior. Christ calls a “little child” (Gr. paidion) to his side, and lifts him up as an example of the kind of faith we need to exhibit. The passage shifts to “little one” (Gr. mikron) at the point where Christ addresses causing them to offend, and continues to use the same Greek word through the end of the section. The lexicons state that paidion can be used of a more mature child, rather than only for small children. This is exemplified in that it is used of a 12 year old girl (Mark 5:41-42). Pais is used of the 12 year old boy Jesus (Luke 2:42-43). Careful examination can find a number of incidents in which pais and padion are used interchangeably (though pais is also used of “servant”, with reference to a young servant boy. The term mikron is a curiosity here. Meaning “little”, it is more commonly a time word, used for short duration. Used of children only here in the New Testament, the lexical meaning must give way to the narrative’s use of the word “these”, indicating the same group of children for which Christ had already used the word “padion”. In short, the Greek words used in Matthew 18 cannot definitively be used to rule out application to what passed for an adolescent in that culture. At age 12, there were some senses in which Jesus would be accepted as an adult, and others in which he would be under His parent’s authority (as the story in Luke 2 makes clear). It should be noted that it is not safe to make the distinction that some have tried to make, indicating that padion is used up to age 12, and teknon is used thereafter, as it is not supported by a careful reading of the New Testament.
I therefore suggest that in spirit, if not in letter, we must accept the concept that we are given dire warnings against doing things can cause even adolescents (those in transition from childhood to adult status) to sin – and that adults who do so can be legitimately condemned for doing so. Thus, we must accept the premise that those under their parents authority are given a special status, whereby they are excused in cases where they have been “caused to offend” by another. They are not accepted as being at the age of full responsibility.
Some may object to this, saying that the Bar Mitzvah at age 12 is specifically intended to indicate full responsibility before the Law. But this was not so much true at the time of Jesus. Rather, the child prior to age 12 was seen as primarily under the moral instruction of the mother till weaned, the father till age 12, and the Law after age 12. This did not remove parental authority or the need for their guidance, as shown in the way Mary and Joseph treated Jesus in Luke 2.
Consequently: it is reasonable to infer that the fault for the sin of a minor can be laid at the feet of a misleading adult.
Secondly, I would argue that calling into question the appropriateness of a separate category for child molestation due to early marriage ages in the Bible misunderstands the cultural differences and similarities between their day and ours.
Now, we are not under the Law as New Testament believers, but the Law still functions as a moral guide in a variety of way, and a reflection of God’s Holy character. It is important to remember that many of the Old Testament rulings are “case law”, characterized by “if/then” instructions about situations that may arise within the culture. Even in the Old Testament era itself, they would have been used as guides and for principles, rather than in the way we use law today. As such, God does not promote or approve of all the cultural assumptions, but gives instructions to mediate the elements of that culture into a form that is more pleasing to Him. Since appeals have been made to the culture of Bible times (as in “If Tina Anderson had lived in Bible times, she would have been old enough to marry”, and “If she had been around in Bible times, she would have been stoned”), the Old Testament Law seems an appropriate place from which to draw cultural insight and answer the argument.
Let’s begin with an understanding that the underlying assumption of all Old Testament sexual ethics is that sexual activity is appropriate only with a spouse, thus the prominent place of the commandment against adultery in the Decalogue. That instruction is applied in many ways with many connections throughout the law. But the formula that arises is this: Sexual acts outside of those with the marriage partner are presumed to be adulterous. Rape, or “forcing”, as the Old Testament Law would put it, would be a subset of adultery, but more heinous by several measures.
The variety of instructions with regard to the violation of an unmarried young woman are difficult of direct application, the cultural situation being so different. Marriages between the rapist and the victim, dowries paid for violating a virgin, and similar instructions seem harsh and odd to the modern ears. But all of these are natural applications of the culture of the time, and made sense to the people of that culture and time. An analysis of these is beyond the scope of this post.
Most pertinent is the fact that Old Testament Law regarding the violation of a young woman revolves around the assumption that the father’s prerogatives have been violated if the woman is not betrothed (see, Exodus 22:16ff, for instance). The reason for this is that only the father can give consent to the marriage.
The point is this: Though daughters were frequently married at ages that today would be considered lower than our age of consent, the parental approval provided a protective layer, making sure that teen lust or impulsiveness did not allow a marriage where the husband was unable to financially support or provide a safe home for the daughter. Since we do not have the same cultural protections, the modern legal code’s age of consent for sexual activity and minimum ages for marriage without parental consent provide similar protections for those who are too young to make informed decisions.
Consequently, it is unreasonable to suggest that early marriage ages in Bible times call into question whether we should take government standards for age of consent into account for purposes of determining appropriateness of behavior. Age of consent and minimum marriage age regulations serve similar purposes to the father’s consent in the Old Testament period.
Thirdly, I would argue that Old Testament rape codes reveal that it is inappropriate in certain cases to blame a person claiming to be a victim.
The rape legislation of Deuteronomy 22 provides the standard of how to judge consensual and non-consensual sex, in order to determine if rape has taken place. Laying aside the issue of betrothed or not betrothed, which does not precisely match our cultural setting, these scenarios give us a paradigm from which to judge the consensuality or non-consensuality of a reported rape.
Deuteronomy 22:22-24 gives us the case of a woman “found” lying with a married man. They both are stoned for adultery. This is because they are “in the city” – small, cramped villages where the presumption is that if the victim had cried out, she would have been heard. Even in the larger cities, population density in ancient times was much higher than we would experience today. Because there were people nearby, and nobody heard her cry out, she is presumed to be consenting to the adultery, and both are stoned for the adulterous act.
In verses 25-27, we have the exception: a married man comes upon a woman and forces her sexually. They are “in the field”, an isolated place where her cries cannot be heard. He is put to death, and the woman is let go with no penalty.
We have to query the text a bit to apply it. In verses 22-24, the couple is “caught in the act” (think of John 8’s woman taken in adultery). Neither member of the couple has complained of rape. In verses 25-27, by contrast, they are not caught, but we presume the female who is forced complains. Since the event happened in an isolated location where nobody could have heard her cry out, he is executed as an adulterous rapist, and she is let go.
We now have an interesting possible application to the Tina Anderson case. The Deuteronomy 22:22-24 situation does not apply, because they were not caught in a generally public area. The one that best applies is the Deuteronomy 22:25-27 situation, in which the woman complains, and there having been nobody to hear her cries and rescue her, the man is assumed to be guilty of rape, and she is absolved of the charge of adultery.
We have in the Tina Anderson situation a matter in which she came to the spiritual authority with a report of rape, a la Deuteronomy 22:25-27. Rather than following the example of the Law, the example of our own culture from the early 1900’s was followed, and reasons to hold her partially responsible were sought. Mr. Willis reported the matter as consensual. Tina reports it as rape. Contrary to Deuteronomy, Mr. Willis is believed, and Tina is held partially responsible. This is evidenced, if by no other means, by the fact that Mr. Willis was not required to confess to anything other than adultery.
The Old Testament example means that the woman reporting a rape occurring in such situations should be believed. We might also conclude that asking leading questions and attempting to influence a minor to doubt his/her own conclusions and blame him/herself is a particularly hurtful way of violating this principle.
We move on to the last point, somewhat less tangible, but nevertheless, important. Some have noted that much of our modern culture’s thinking on the issue of molestation arises from feminist philosophy. While feminist philosophy is involved, and extends even to the extremes of the movement, where we find some espousing views so extreme that even marriage is considered a form of either rape or prostitution, this does not discount what may sound like a feminist theological concept: there is a strong trend toward the protection of the weak in Scripture. This applies also to a woman in a “force” situation with a man.
The emphasis in molestation thinking, today, as in sexual harassment theory, is built on the idea of disproportionate power. It’s not only the reason a rapist is convicted, but the reason a university president can be removed for involvement with an intern. The ability of the more powerful figure to force or pressure sexual involvement is difficult to estimate.
Similarly, in the case of a grown man like Mr. Willis, and a 15 year old girl like Tina Anderson at the time, the ability of the adult male to apply pressure, cajole, motivate by lust, fear, or other manipulations, cannot be overstated. In fact, it’s at least half of why molestation is wrong. The victim cannot appreciate the significance of the sexual activity, but they also cannot properly cope with the pressures applied by the adult.
So, do we see a sensitivity to these issues in the Old Testament Law? The answer is yes.
Deut. 21:10-14 specify that the beautiful woman a man wants to take after the battle must be married by him. He cannot use his power as her captor to simply enslave her sexually.
Even the divorce law of Deuteronomy 24:1 provides protection for the woman. Moses required the men to write a certificate of divorce so that the woman was free to find another man to support her. Otherwise, his power over her would be absolute: he could revile her, yet leave her in virtual slavery (both sexual and non-sexual) to him. And she would be utterly without recourse. He could neglect, abuse, and not provide for her — even throwing her out – and she would not be able to marry another man to take care of her.
A survey of the Old Testament leads to a conclusion that the weight of judgment for sexual indiscretion always leans heavily toward the man – the one generally presumed to be the stronger and more influential of the two. The 10 commandments single out the male. The woman is given the benefit of the doubt in rape cases, as we saw. She is protected from a forced marriage to the man in such cases, by a requirement of the father’s consent. In adultery, both parties were killed, rather than just the woman, which is a departure from other ancient cultures of the time.
Throughout the Old Testament, we see great sensitivity to the protection of the weaker party and the oppressed. Even though some of these passages seem harsh by our modern standards, they were shockingly liberalizing by the standards of the time. God was planting a seed of sensitivity to the weak and oppressed in Israel.
Concluding thoughts:
One of the ugliest things about the Pharisaical interpretation of the Old Testament law was that it removed all this sensitivity of interpretation and dealt with the most unfortunate most harshly. Those who wish to use the example of Old Testament culture to justify an erosion of the categories of molestation as distinct from other sexual sin should beware, lest they be guilty of the same.
50 years ago in the U.S., a sexual assault survivor would be dragged before a public venue and find their reputation shattered as every action was second-guessed in an attempt to defend the accused assailant.
I suggest that what happened to Tina Anderson and Mr. Willis was not a step away from feminist thinking toward Biblical thinking, as some seem to be saying. It was merely a step back to an America where the rape victim is put on trial too. Going further back, to the Law of Moses, would have yielded a different result.
Regardless of the particulars, or anyone’s agreement with my points above, I think nobody can disagree that Moses would have had Mr. Willis stoned, rather than allow him to plead to a lesser charge.
Where does this leave us?
1). All attempts to soften the definition of Child Molestation in such a way as to place blame on teenaged victims are questionable. While the extent to which a teenager may have willingly participated in a sexual act due to manipulation is a legitimate issue for counseling, the stigma for the wrong-doing should not be placed on them.
2). All attempts to make the perpetrator of the molestation of a teen seem less guilty because the victim was old enough to know a little better than a small child should be rejected. The words of Christ with regard to causing a minor to sin, in some cases the Old Testament definition of rape, and the example in Scripture of dealing with the weaker out of love rather than using them to serve our purposes, all speak against this. It is a travesty that Mr. Willis was permitted to confess to adultery, and not to a sin (or combination of sins) far more serious.
3). It is important to keep the “legal” category and the “Biblical” category separate in our minds, particularly in the application of church discipline. It is reasonable to assume that such differences will exist. But it is not reasonable to assume that our culture got everything wrong. In this case, our culture’s view of molestation can be well-supported from Scripture.
My purpose in starting this thread is to address a critical issue. The matter of Tina Anderson, Chuck Phelps, et al., has provoked several threads, lengthy discussions, and of course, a 20/20 broadcast. It is NOT my intent in this post to question Pastor Phelps’ judgment (though that is an unavoidable side-effect of this post), but rather to use the debate his judgment has provoked as a jumping-off point.
Bob Bixby has already written elsewhere, brilliantly defending the logic of not blaming Tina Anderson for her rape (yes, I know I am using the term argumentatively).
Dave Doran has posted here at SI reminding us of the importance of a). not becoming so caught up in the details that we forget a very personal tragedy occurred, and b). remembering that our obligations of testimony require us to act in a way that does not bring shame on the cause of Christ before the world. By dissecting the particulars of the case and questioning our society’s judgment in setting ages of consent where it does, we shame ourselves and our Savior before this world.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of these fine men.
But I also understand the seriousness of answering the challenge that some have made in this matter. I want to spend some time giving a Biblical defense of the idea that it is not satisfactory to place blame on Tina Anderson in any way for what happened to her, and to argue that there is serious Biblical basis for arguing that Mr. Willis should have been asked to confess the crime of raping Tina Anderson rather than merely confessing a generic adultery before the church.
The argument being made by some can be summed up fairly in this way: “In a case where a teenaged girl of 15 years of age consents to sexual activity with an adult in his 30’s, it may not be quite appropriate to call it rape or molestation from a Biblical perspective. While the law would interpret it as such, the ages at which people were allowed and encouraged to marry in Biblical (and even Colonial) times would suggest that this is an arbitrary choice (though we all admit law must be specific). Therefore, in keeping “Biblical” and “Legal” categories separate, it may have been appropriate for Pastor Phelps to a). ask Mr. Willis to confess to the sin of adultery only, and b). place some responsibility upon Tina Anderson for her own actions in the matter.”
I add that the idea that Pastor Phelps did this point b). cannot be disputed. Whether Pastor Phelps intended Tina Anderson’s statement as a confession under discipline or not, the very act of not requiring Mr. Willis to confess to rape, and the very act of requiring her to admit that she was pregnant without putting her pregnancy in a rape context places some responsibility on Tina Anderson.
In refuting the above position, I present the following:
First, I would argue that we must take into account the words of our Lord in Matthew 18. In that passage, we find that anyone who causes one of these children to offend is subject to one of the most horrifying threats of judgment our Savior ever gave. Note, please that it is possible to lay blame for a child’s offense at the feet of an adult. The adult can “cause them to offend”.
Some are going to object because they would feel that the case of Tina Anderson is older than the children referred to by our Savior. Christ calls a “little child” (Gr. paidion) to his side, and lifts him up as an example of the kind of faith we need to exhibit. The passage shifts to “little one” (Gr. mikron) at the point where Christ addresses causing them to offend, and continues to use the same Greek word through the end of the section. The lexicons state that paidion can be used of a more mature child, rather than only for small children. This is exemplified in that it is used of a 12 year old girl (Mark 5:41-42). Pais is used of the 12 year old boy Jesus (Luke 2:42-43). Careful examination can find a number of incidents in which pais and padion are used interchangeably (though pais is also used of “servant”, with reference to a young servant boy. The term mikron is a curiosity here. Meaning “little”, it is more commonly a time word, used for short duration. Used of children only here in the New Testament, the lexical meaning must give way to the narrative’s use of the word “these”, indicating the same group of children for which Christ had already used the word “padion”. In short, the Greek words used in Matthew 18 cannot definitively be used to rule out application to what passed for an adolescent in that culture. At age 12, there were some senses in which Jesus would be accepted as an adult, and others in which he would be under His parent’s authority (as the story in Luke 2 makes clear). It should be noted that it is not safe to make the distinction that some have tried to make, indicating that padion is used up to age 12, and teknon is used thereafter, as it is not supported by a careful reading of the New Testament.
I therefore suggest that in spirit, if not in letter, we must accept the concept that we are given dire warnings against doing things can cause even adolescents (those in transition from childhood to adult status) to sin – and that adults who do so can be legitimately condemned for doing so. Thus, we must accept the premise that those under their parents authority are given a special status, whereby they are excused in cases where they have been “caused to offend” by another. They are not accepted as being at the age of full responsibility.
Some may object to this, saying that the Bar Mitzvah at age 12 is specifically intended to indicate full responsibility before the Law. But this was not so much true at the time of Jesus. Rather, the child prior to age 12 was seen as primarily under the moral instruction of the mother till weaned, the father till age 12, and the Law after age 12. This did not remove parental authority or the need for their guidance, as shown in the way Mary and Joseph treated Jesus in Luke 2.
Consequently: it is reasonable to infer that the fault for the sin of a minor can be laid at the feet of a misleading adult.
Secondly, I would argue that calling into question the appropriateness of a separate category for child molestation due to early marriage ages in the Bible misunderstands the cultural differences and similarities between their day and ours.
Now, we are not under the Law as New Testament believers, but the Law still functions as a moral guide in a variety of way, and a reflection of God’s Holy character. It is important to remember that many of the Old Testament rulings are “case law”, characterized by “if/then” instructions about situations that may arise within the culture. Even in the Old Testament era itself, they would have been used as guides and for principles, rather than in the way we use law today. As such, God does not promote or approve of all the cultural assumptions, but gives instructions to mediate the elements of that culture into a form that is more pleasing to Him. Since appeals have been made to the culture of Bible times (as in “If Tina Anderson had lived in Bible times, she would have been old enough to marry”, and “If she had been around in Bible times, she would have been stoned”), the Old Testament Law seems an appropriate place from which to draw cultural insight and answer the argument.
Let’s begin with an understanding that the underlying assumption of all Old Testament sexual ethics is that sexual activity is appropriate only with a spouse, thus the prominent place of the commandment against adultery in the Decalogue. That instruction is applied in many ways with many connections throughout the law. But the formula that arises is this: Sexual acts outside of those with the marriage partner are presumed to be adulterous. Rape, or “forcing”, as the Old Testament Law would put it, would be a subset of adultery, but more heinous by several measures.
The variety of instructions with regard to the violation of an unmarried young woman are difficult of direct application, the cultural situation being so different. Marriages between the rapist and the victim, dowries paid for violating a virgin, and similar instructions seem harsh and odd to the modern ears. But all of these are natural applications of the culture of the time, and made sense to the people of that culture and time. An analysis of these is beyond the scope of this post.
Most pertinent is the fact that Old Testament Law regarding the violation of a young woman revolves around the assumption that the father’s prerogatives have been violated if the woman is not betrothed (see, Exodus 22:16ff, for instance). The reason for this is that only the father can give consent to the marriage.
The point is this: Though daughters were frequently married at ages that today would be considered lower than our age of consent, the parental approval provided a protective layer, making sure that teen lust or impulsiveness did not allow a marriage where the husband was unable to financially support or provide a safe home for the daughter. Since we do not have the same cultural protections, the modern legal code’s age of consent for sexual activity and minimum ages for marriage without parental consent provide similar protections for those who are too young to make informed decisions.
Consequently, it is unreasonable to suggest that early marriage ages in Bible times call into question whether we should take government standards for age of consent into account for purposes of determining appropriateness of behavior. Age of consent and minimum marriage age regulations serve similar purposes to the father’s consent in the Old Testament period.
Thirdly, I would argue that Old Testament rape codes reveal that it is inappropriate in certain cases to blame a person claiming to be a victim.
The rape legislation of Deuteronomy 22 provides the standard of how to judge consensual and non-consensual sex, in order to determine if rape has taken place. Laying aside the issue of betrothed or not betrothed, which does not precisely match our cultural setting, these scenarios give us a paradigm from which to judge the consensuality or non-consensuality of a reported rape.
Deuteronomy 22:22-24 gives us the case of a woman “found” lying with a married man. They both are stoned for adultery. This is because they are “in the city” – small, cramped villages where the presumption is that if the victim had cried out, she would have been heard. Even in the larger cities, population density in ancient times was much higher than we would experience today. Because there were people nearby, and nobody heard her cry out, she is presumed to be consenting to the adultery, and both are stoned for the adulterous act.
In verses 25-27, we have the exception: a married man comes upon a woman and forces her sexually. They are “in the field”, an isolated place where her cries cannot be heard. He is put to death, and the woman is let go with no penalty.
We have to query the text a bit to apply it. In verses 22-24, the couple is “caught in the act” (think of John 8’s woman taken in adultery). Neither member of the couple has complained of rape. In verses 25-27, by contrast, they are not caught, but we presume the female who is forced complains. Since the event happened in an isolated location where nobody could have heard her cry out, he is executed as an adulterous rapist, and she is let go.
We now have an interesting possible application to the Tina Anderson case. The Deuteronomy 22:22-24 situation does not apply, because they were not caught in a generally public area. The one that best applies is the Deuteronomy 22:25-27 situation, in which the woman complains, and there having been nobody to hear her cries and rescue her, the man is assumed to be guilty of rape, and she is absolved of the charge of adultery.
We have in the Tina Anderson situation a matter in which she came to the spiritual authority with a report of rape, a la Deuteronomy 22:25-27. Rather than following the example of the Law, the example of our own culture from the early 1900’s was followed, and reasons to hold her partially responsible were sought. Mr. Willis reported the matter as consensual. Tina reports it as rape. Contrary to Deuteronomy, Mr. Willis is believed, and Tina is held partially responsible. This is evidenced, if by no other means, by the fact that Mr. Willis was not required to confess to anything other than adultery.
The Old Testament example means that the woman reporting a rape occurring in such situations should be believed. We might also conclude that asking leading questions and attempting to influence a minor to doubt his/her own conclusions and blame him/herself is a particularly hurtful way of violating this principle.
We move on to the last point, somewhat less tangible, but nevertheless, important. Some have noted that much of our modern culture’s thinking on the issue of molestation arises from feminist philosophy. While feminist philosophy is involved, and extends even to the extremes of the movement, where we find some espousing views so extreme that even marriage is considered a form of either rape or prostitution, this does not discount what may sound like a feminist theological concept: there is a strong trend toward the protection of the weak in Scripture. This applies also to a woman in a “force” situation with a man.
The emphasis in molestation thinking, today, as in sexual harassment theory, is built on the idea of disproportionate power. It’s not only the reason a rapist is convicted, but the reason a university president can be removed for involvement with an intern. The ability of the more powerful figure to force or pressure sexual involvement is difficult to estimate.
Similarly, in the case of a grown man like Mr. Willis, and a 15 year old girl like Tina Anderson at the time, the ability of the adult male to apply pressure, cajole, motivate by lust, fear, or other manipulations, cannot be overstated. In fact, it’s at least half of why molestation is wrong. The victim cannot appreciate the significance of the sexual activity, but they also cannot properly cope with the pressures applied by the adult.
So, do we see a sensitivity to these issues in the Old Testament Law? The answer is yes.
Deut. 21:10-14 specify that the beautiful woman a man wants to take after the battle must be married by him. He cannot use his power as her captor to simply enslave her sexually.
Even the divorce law of Deuteronomy 24:1 provides protection for the woman. Moses required the men to write a certificate of divorce so that the woman was free to find another man to support her. Otherwise, his power over her would be absolute: he could revile her, yet leave her in virtual slavery (both sexual and non-sexual) to him. And she would be utterly without recourse. He could neglect, abuse, and not provide for her — even throwing her out – and she would not be able to marry another man to take care of her.
A survey of the Old Testament leads to a conclusion that the weight of judgment for sexual indiscretion always leans heavily toward the man – the one generally presumed to be the stronger and more influential of the two. The 10 commandments single out the male. The woman is given the benefit of the doubt in rape cases, as we saw. She is protected from a forced marriage to the man in such cases, by a requirement of the father’s consent. In adultery, both parties were killed, rather than just the woman, which is a departure from other ancient cultures of the time.
Throughout the Old Testament, we see great sensitivity to the protection of the weaker party and the oppressed. Even though some of these passages seem harsh by our modern standards, they were shockingly liberalizing by the standards of the time. God was planting a seed of sensitivity to the weak and oppressed in Israel.
Concluding thoughts:
One of the ugliest things about the Pharisaical interpretation of the Old Testament law was that it removed all this sensitivity of interpretation and dealt with the most unfortunate most harshly. Those who wish to use the example of Old Testament culture to justify an erosion of the categories of molestation as distinct from other sexual sin should beware, lest they be guilty of the same.
50 years ago in the U.S., a sexual assault survivor would be dragged before a public venue and find their reputation shattered as every action was second-guessed in an attempt to defend the accused assailant.
I suggest that what happened to Tina Anderson and Mr. Willis was not a step away from feminist thinking toward Biblical thinking, as some seem to be saying. It was merely a step back to an America where the rape victim is put on trial too. Going further back, to the Law of Moses, would have yielded a different result.
Regardless of the particulars, or anyone’s agreement with my points above, I think nobody can disagree that Moses would have had Mr. Willis stoned, rather than allow him to plead to a lesser charge.
Where does this leave us?
1). All attempts to soften the definition of Child Molestation in such a way as to place blame on teenaged victims are questionable. While the extent to which a teenager may have willingly participated in a sexual act due to manipulation is a legitimate issue for counseling, the stigma for the wrong-doing should not be placed on them.
2). All attempts to make the perpetrator of the molestation of a teen seem less guilty because the victim was old enough to know a little better than a small child should be rejected. The words of Christ with regard to causing a minor to sin, in some cases the Old Testament definition of rape, and the example in Scripture of dealing with the weaker out of love rather than using them to serve our purposes, all speak against this. It is a travesty that Mr. Willis was permitted to confess to adultery, and not to a sin (or combination of sins) far more serious.
3). It is important to keep the “legal” category and the “Biblical” category separate in our minds, particularly in the application of church discipline. It is reasonable to assume that such differences will exist. But it is not reasonable to assume that our culture got everything wrong. In this case, our culture’s view of molestation can be well-supported from Scripture.
- 46 views
After a first reading, I don’t see anything with which I would take issue.
That’s where some will disagree with you- it has been said that when an adult is involved, the actions of the minor cannot be categorized as sinful in any way.
We should also apply this to young men and not just young women-Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. I think it fair to say most folks have a very hard time believing a young man could be manipulated or forced into a sexual relationship.
Edited to add: the biggest part of the disconnect, IMO, is conflating words like ‘culpable’ and ‘consensual’. Just because someone complies doesn’t mean they are to blame. But they are going to have a completely different set of issues to deal with than someone who was forced against their will. They. Are. Not. The. Same.
Consequently: it is reasonable to infer that the fault for the sin of a minor can be laid at the feet of a misleading adult.
That’s where some will disagree with you- it has been said that when an adult is involved, the actions of the minor cannot be categorized as sinful in any way.
We should also apply this to young men and not just young women-Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. I think it fair to say most folks have a very hard time believing a young man could be manipulated or forced into a sexual relationship.
Edited to add: the biggest part of the disconnect, IMO, is conflating words like ‘culpable’ and ‘consensual’. Just because someone complies doesn’t mean they are to blame. But they are going to have a completely different set of issues to deal with than someone who was forced against their will. They. Are. Not. The. Same.
[Susan R] We should also apply this to young men and not just young women-Proverbs 7:21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.Great reminder, Susan.
My one regret is that I didn’t have time to mine the Old Testament rape narratives for more data. But one of my friends, who had reviewed this thing 3 times before I posted it, only reminded me of it just before midnight last night. Maybe after my Easter (Yes, everyone. I used the word “Easter”) sermon is done I’ll take a crack at doing that analysis as a follow up.
I so wish that parents would be taught some of these truths and biblical emphases about their small children, esp preschool ages …
I mean, I wish our churches were more advocating teaching parents how to gently, creatively, happily teach obedience to small children rather than the odd punishing/spanking obedience training that we pushpushpush. It’s very sad. They are the weak and immature ones. I feel like we turn ourselves on our heads sometimes—punishing them over an over for not being adults, when in reality, we as adults fail just as much as they in our own ways.
I see the strong-authority-parenting is sort of mimicked in churches, yk? Maybe this is one thoughtful, positive way we could change our own IFB circles at this time …
:)
I mean, I wish our churches were more advocating teaching parents how to gently, creatively, happily teach obedience to small children rather than the odd punishing/spanking obedience training that we pushpushpush. It’s very sad. They are the weak and immature ones. I feel like we turn ourselves on our heads sometimes—punishing them over an over for not being adults, when in reality, we as adults fail just as much as they in our own ways.
I see the strong-authority-parenting is sort of mimicked in churches, yk? Maybe this is one thoughtful, positive way we could change our own IFB circles at this time …
:)
I appreciate your careful analysis and thoughtful treatment of the subject. It is very difficult to be objective about any topic with such strong emotional ties as those we bind to our children. A proper understanding- a Scriptural understanding- is so essential with an issue as complex as this, as well as one with such far reaching ramifications.
You might find http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/1…] The Case Against Adolescence by Robert Epstein interesting reading on the subject of how ‘coming of age’ has changed through the years. I’m not happy with some of his conclusions, but his research is sound, and I do believe we’ve allowed the infantilization of our children to reach quite ridiculous lengths- to the point that we’ve crippled their ability to mature properly. So whatever young people have been able to do in the past, from Daniel to Josiah to David Farragut, children today are barely able to clean their rooms, much less be able to make a decision about something as significant as sexual relations.
You might find http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/1…] The Case Against Adolescence by Robert Epstein interesting reading on the subject of how ‘coming of age’ has changed through the years. I’m not happy with some of his conclusions, but his research is sound, and I do believe we’ve allowed the infantilization of our children to reach quite ridiculous lengths- to the point that we’ve crippled their ability to mature properly. So whatever young people have been able to do in the past, from Daniel to Josiah to David Farragut, children today are barely able to clean their rooms, much less be able to make a decision about something as significant as sexual relations.
[Anne Sokol] I mean, I wish our churches were more advocating teaching parents how to gently, creatively, happily teach obedience to small children rather than the odd punishing/spanking obedience training that we pushpushpush. It’s very sad. They are the weak and immature ones. I feel like we turn ourselves on our heads sometimes—punishing them over an over for not being adults, when in reality, we as adults fail just as much as they in our own ways.I don’t think a church should advocate for a particular approach, Anne. Churches should teach what is clearly outlined in Scripture, and leave the ins and outs to parents.
[Susan R] You might find http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/1…] The Case Against Adolescence by Robert Epstein interesting reading on the subject of how ‘coming of age’ has changed through the years. I’m not happy with some of his conclusions, but his research is sound, and I do believe we’ve allowed the infantilization of our children to reach quite ridiculous lengths- to the point that we’ve crippled their ability to mature properly. So whatever young people have been able to do in the past, from Daniel to Josiah to David Farragut, children today are barely able to clean their rooms, much less be able to make a decision about something as significant as sexual relations.Susan,
I’m vaguely familiar with his work and findings, since I’ve seen it reviewed and heard it discussed. Historian Jaques Barzun has some great comments on the key roles that what we would call adolescents played in history. I do think that one of the reasons we prolong adolescence is the increasing complexity of our age. We clearly can’t just give them 40 acres, a mule, help them build a cabin, and cut them loose anymore. Just in the past few weeks I’ve had to help my 20 year old son a). investigate why he got a check from the county for $400.00 when they don’t owe him anything, b). evaluate a car problem, c). decide on health insurance, and d). plan how much should be in his emergency fund now that he lives away from our house (Turns out $50 - $100 is not enough). In my mind, he’s still a bit of an adolescent.
On the flip side, the obsession of this generation with entertainment sure doesn’t leave enough time to teach all we need to in the few short years we have. Since Ryan was adopted in his early teens, we didn’t have as much as most do.
I’m of the position, though, that not competent to make decisions is not competent to make decisions, regardless of age or label we put on it. The law has to set a standard, but I’ve known a few 40 year old adolescents. Maybe the path to adult responsibility is to require responsibility.
Mike
[Susan R]I don’t think they should either, but that is what is happening t.o.d.a.y. basically. have you ever seen a class in church on non-spanking, positive methods of child discipline?[Anne Sokol] I mean, I wish our churches were more advocating teaching parents how to gently, creatively, happily teach obedience to small children rather than the odd punishing/spanking obedience training that we pushpushpush. It’s very sad. They are the weak and immature ones. I feel like we turn ourselves on our heads sometimes—punishing them over an over for not being adults, when in reality, we as adults fail just as much as they in our own ways.I don’t think a church should advocate for a particular approach, Anne. Churches should teach what is clearly outlined in Scripture, and leave the ins and outs to parents.
the bible really doesn’t openly address the training of very small children. (Most everyone disagrees i’m sure b/c they apply the rod/fool proverbs to small kids, but that is where we have sunk into error.) But the bible does give us many principles like what Mike is writing here. I wish churches would lay these things more before parents.
modeling and teaching what intimate, normal relationships look like is a major, gospel goal of home and church—expressing godly love to one another. Yes, sweeping statements, but a lot to unpack there biblically.
[Anne Sokol]Every church is different. Some churches don’t have ‘classes’ for specific groups. What I’ve seen most is that principles are taught that apply to everyone- self-control, compassion, patience, healthy boundaries… With informal getting-together-chatting, I’ve heard parents talk about the many different ways they’ve dealt with their individual children, which sometimes involve spanking, because for some kids that works best.[Susan R]I don’t think they should either, but that is what is happening t.o.d.a.y. basically. have you ever seen a class in church on non-spanking, positive methods of child discipline?[Anne Sokol] I mean, I wish our churches were more advocating teaching parents how to gently, creatively, happily teach obedience to small children rather than the odd punishing/spanking obedience training that we pushpushpush. It’s very sad. They are the weak and immature ones. I feel like we turn ourselves on our heads sometimes—punishing them over an over for not being adults, when in reality, we as adults fail just as much as they in our own ways.I don’t think a church should advocate for a particular approach, Anne. Churches should teach what is clearly outlined in Scripture, and leave the ins and outs to parents.
I’m not sure where you are going with this, Anne. Are you saying that spanking parents are more likely to be sexually abusive? I would agree that unhealthy views of authority do allow abuses to remain hidden, but spanking=dysfunctional views of authority…? Just not getting you on this one within the context of this thread.
Edited to add: I apologize if I seemed to be dismissing your post, Anne. That was not my intent. On the other parenting thread, I thought we pretty much agreed that pushing parents into one mold or other was a bad idea.
just saying … churches should prob’ly promote different books than the usual fare. Being an authority is one aspect of parenting, but it is emphasized a lot, probably too much and in an erroneous way, in a lot of fundy camps.
Just saying it’s somethin’ to think about.
think … this reminds me of winnie the pooh …
Just saying it’s somethin’ to think about.
think … this reminds me of winnie the pooh …
It seems with some of the controversy over the Pearls and other parenting books like them, many churches have stopped using them. To be clear- I don’t think the Pearls advocate abusive parenting, although I think they are off the reservation doctrinally. But a parent who takes any advice that results in the sexual abuse or death of their child has not been engaging their thinking skills. Definitely time to think some thinks!
This thread jogged my memory. i think the two parenting books i was given in ifb circles were Ezzo and Tripp. Wow. I have gone outside of ifb circles to find more biblical perspectives on parenting. there are probably some connections between abuse (not necesarily s~xual) in churches and our parenting stuff, its just so connected relationally.
anyway, like i said, i think it’s something positive we could just consider, as ifb people … .
anyway, like i said, i think it’s something positive we could just consider, as ifb people … .
I love you all, but how did this thread turn into a parenting thread?
that Anne was thinking (and she will correct me if I’m wrong) that some of the extremes in parenting advice, and the embracing thereof, is partially responsible for cases like Tina’s.
There seems to be a basic assumption that the information provided by 20/20 and Tina Anderson was entirely true. According to Dr. Phelps ( http://www.drchuckphelps.com/ http://www.drchuckphelps.com/ ) is was not.
Despair does not lie in being weary of suffering, but in being weary of joy.G.K. Chesterton
Mike, I agree with you entirely if the facts are as you state them.
However, as I have argued elsewhere, I don’t think any of us watching from the outside are in possession of all the facts.
For example, you say in your article that Tina reported to her pastor that she was raped. Are you sure that is what she reported? Or did she report that she was pregnant? I realize that she is now saying that she was raped. But we don’t know exactly what was said or how this all happened.
So, while I agree with you in principle, I simply am withholding judgement until all parties are heard from.
And… I am not sure how much of this is my business anyway.
So with that, I don’t think I have anything more to add. The whole story is very wearying to me.
However, as I have argued elsewhere, I don’t think any of us watching from the outside are in possession of all the facts.
For example, you say in your article that Tina reported to her pastor that she was raped. Are you sure that is what she reported? Or did she report that she was pregnant? I realize that she is now saying that she was raped. But we don’t know exactly what was said or how this all happened.
So, while I agree with you in principle, I simply am withholding judgement until all parties are heard from.
And… I am not sure how much of this is my business anyway.
So with that, I don’t think I have anything more to add. The whole story is very wearying to me.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Don,
According to Dr. Phelps’ notes as seen on his website, on Wednesday, the first day of finding all of this out, he “reported the allegations.” Also, in his most recent addition to his website, Dr. Phelps talks about not telling Tina to forgive and forget the allegations she made against Mr. Willis. It would seem that it is safe to assume that the allegation was her being raped, not allegations of it being a covert dating relationship.
According to Dr. Phelps’ notes as seen on his website, on Wednesday, the first day of finding all of this out, he “reported the allegations.” Also, in his most recent addition to his website, Dr. Phelps talks about not telling Tina to forgive and forget the allegations she made against Mr. Willis. It would seem that it is safe to assume that the allegation was her being raped, not allegations of it being a covert dating relationship.
Yes, Dr. Phelps understood immediately what was going on. Mike is basing his response, however, not on what Dr. Phelps thought or responded but on what Tina testified.
All I am saying is that it is not at all clear that she reported “rape” at that time. She may not have called it rape then, while she does now (and properly so). Alternatively, one has to ask why did she wait at least 2 months to report the incident? It is quite likely she was afraid, embarrassed, whatever. I am not blaming her for what could simply be immaturity and lack of judgement. She was a young girl, after all.
My point is, there are still unanswered questions out there. If we knew the answers to those questions we would be in a better position to make judgements about the incident. It may turn out that all the surmises made here on SI are correct. But until those answers come to light, we just aren’t in a position to come to a conclusion.
[Mike Durning] We have in the Tina Anderson situation a matter in which she came to the spiritual authority with a report of rape, a la Deuteronomy 22:25-27.Well… did she? Maybe she did and maybe she didn’t. Apparently, according to Dr. Phelps she was 16 when she came to him. According to someone else calculating the age, she was 16 yrs 7 mo old when the baby was born. So this report to the spiritual authority was at least 2 months after the incident.
All I am saying is that it is not at all clear that she reported “rape” at that time. She may not have called it rape then, while she does now (and properly so). Alternatively, one has to ask why did she wait at least 2 months to report the incident? It is quite likely she was afraid, embarrassed, whatever. I am not blaming her for what could simply be immaturity and lack of judgement. She was a young girl, after all.
My point is, there are still unanswered questions out there. If we knew the answers to those questions we would be in a better position to make judgements about the incident. It may turn out that all the surmises made here on SI are correct. But until those answers come to light, we just aren’t in a position to come to a conclusion.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Don Johnson] For example, you say in your article that Tina reported to her pastor that she was raped. Are you sure that is what she reported? Or did she report that she was pregnant? I realize that she is now saying that she was raped. But we don’t know exactly what was said or how this all happened.In the 20/20 interview (at about 49 minutes into the 20/20 piece, at least on my TIVO) when Pastor Phelps was interviewed, he indicates that he reported the matter to the police as a rape.
Therefore, I am presuming that she reported it as rape to him very early in the discussion process.
On his website, Pastor Phelps indicates that he stands by his answers given in the 20/20 interview.
On this basis, I conclude that Tina reported it as rape to him at the time, though the context in which he chooses to present it at this time is a “dating relationship”. I do not know if he believed it was rape then and disbelieves it now, or if he believes that it is rape still, but that some dating relationship context (real or not) needs to be mentioned to in some way mitigate the rape claim, or if there is some other reason for this difference between his stated initial phone call to the police and his terminology now.
Interviewer: “In 1997, did you report that Tina Anderson had been raped?”
Phelps: “Yes I did.”
– camera cuts scene –
Interviewer: “You called it a dating relationship.”
Phelps: “No I did not.”
Interviewer: “Why wasn’t it rape?”
Phelps: “I did not call it that…I called it…”
Interviewer: “In your statement to us, you did call it a dating relationship.”
Phelps: “Yes, I called it that in my statement to you because it was an ongoing relationship. But I did not call it that to the police department at the time.”
– Later, after comments by narrator claiming that he is speaking to defend keeping Willis in the church –
Phelps: “First, I didn’t know that he’d impregnated a 15 year old girl.”
– camera blurs scene as if to suggest it’s later in interview –
Phelps: “Remember, it was an accusation made. An accusation is not a conviction.”
Phelps: “Yes I did.”
– camera cuts scene –
Interviewer: “You called it a dating relationship.”
Phelps: “No I did not.”
Interviewer: “Why wasn’t it rape?”
Phelps: “I did not call it that…I called it…”
Interviewer: “In your statement to us, you did call it a dating relationship.”
Phelps: “Yes, I called it that in my statement to you because it was an ongoing relationship. But I did not call it that to the police department at the time.”
– Later, after comments by narrator claiming that he is speaking to defend keeping Willis in the church –
Phelps: “First, I didn’t know that he’d impregnated a 15 year old girl.”
– camera blurs scene as if to suggest it’s later in interview –
Phelps: “Remember, it was an accusation made. An accusation is not a conviction.”
Mike, I am not saying that your understanding of the events is wrong. I hope you understand that at least I am open to that possibility.
However, our parsing of Chuck’s interview, of the documents available on-line, and any other extant data is not the same thing as cross-examination. It is difficult to get at all the questions. You can see that in the clip of the interview you post above. The reporter presses Chuck on the term used. The answer is reasonable enough, he is talking about two different reports, reporting ‘rape’ to the police, ‘ongoing relationship’ in statement to ABC. But he isn’t saying anything explicitly about what Tina reported to him at the time. If such information were relevant to the conviction of Willis, it will be fully brought out in a court of law when this comes to trial. Until then, we are just parsing words without the ability to press for clarity. That’s what cross-examination does.
You said above that you are ‘presuming’ what Tina said. Exactly. But you don’t know. Neither do I. That’s why I keep saying we need to wait and see.
This is obviously explosive stuff and could ruin many lives, depending on how it all turns out, correct? So we need to be very cautious about jumping to conclusions just based on news reports. News reports do not always tell the story correctly. Reporters don’t intend to distort the truth (at least, they say they don’t), but they don’t always get it right and sometimes really blow it.
That’s all I’m saying.
I agree with your post in principle, if the facts all lay out just as you understand them. But we don’t yet know all the facts.
However, our parsing of Chuck’s interview, of the documents available on-line, and any other extant data is not the same thing as cross-examination. It is difficult to get at all the questions. You can see that in the clip of the interview you post above. The reporter presses Chuck on the term used. The answer is reasonable enough, he is talking about two different reports, reporting ‘rape’ to the police, ‘ongoing relationship’ in statement to ABC. But he isn’t saying anything explicitly about what Tina reported to him at the time. If such information were relevant to the conviction of Willis, it will be fully brought out in a court of law when this comes to trial. Until then, we are just parsing words without the ability to press for clarity. That’s what cross-examination does.
You said above that you are ‘presuming’ what Tina said. Exactly. But you don’t know. Neither do I. That’s why I keep saying we need to wait and see.
This is obviously explosive stuff and could ruin many lives, depending on how it all turns out, correct? So we need to be very cautious about jumping to conclusions just based on news reports. News reports do not always tell the story correctly. Reporters don’t intend to distort the truth (at least, they say they don’t), but they don’t always get it right and sometimes really blow it.
That’s all I’m saying.
I agree with your post in principle, if the facts all lay out just as you understand them. But we don’t yet know all the facts.
Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
[Mike Durning] I love you all, but how did this thread turn into a parenting thread?Ha, sorry to use you to make my own point, but you have unwittingly given me a little platform :)
See, there is a trend in ifb churches to support what i would categorize as high-control, adult-oriented, heavy-on-authority parenting books and styles. I think this exactly rolls over into the way that *some* ifb pastors tend to view and maintain church relationships as well. You see my connection? Repeat: high-control, adult-oriented, heavy-on-authority …
In your post here, in defense of childhood and the nature of children, you have stated Scriptural points that I have only read (more fully explained) in one other parenting book—Clarkson’s Heartfelt Discipline. He too did an excellent job of going through the O and N Testaments and gleaning what we can understand to be God’s heart toward children.
So what I’m trying to say, based on some points you have brought up here, is that one positive step some ifb churches, in the wake of this event, ought to make is re-examining the parenting styles, books, and attitudes they are promoting to parents. And it is very often tied to the attitudes pastors themselves have imbibed toward their congregations.
I think, with my Pooh brain, that is what I’m trying to say… .
[Anne Sokol] See, there is a trend in ifb churches to support what i would categorize as high-control, adult-oriented, heavy-on-authority parenting books and styles. I think this exactly rolls over into the way that *some* ifb pastors tend to view and maintain church relationships as well. You see my connection? Repeat: high-control, adult-oriented, heavy-on-authority …I’ve seen that dynamic in churches, but interestingly enough, they weren’t IFB. I’ve been saying over and over that this dynamic exists in other places and systems. Trying to make a case that abuses of authority are unique to churches, and to IFB churches in particular, weakens the overall argument. Just take a look at the public schools for a system that is high-control, adult-oriented, heavy-on-authority, and continuously covers for their employees instead of championing children. Where’s the outcry about that? Haven’t heard a peep.
I’ve said from the beginning that based on what has been made public so far, I believe that Phelps handled this badly. Whether his actions were malicious or ignorant or selfish I can’t possibly know. I haven’t any verifiable evidence about this case because I’m sitting in my dining room in Ohio without any access to the legal documentation supporting this case. Does that mean I don’t believe Tina? No- it means I can’t draw any conclusions based on what little I’ve seen and read. Which is why I gave several disclaimers all throughout all my posts that I was addressing the overall issue of child sexual abuse, not Tina’s case in particular. But that distinction has been completely ignored based on all the threatening messages I’ve received. Breathe, people, breathe.
I have been trying to read a bit more about this case, but there is very little available that could be considered verifiable evidence. That will, hopefully and prayerfully, come out in court.
It is true that if Tina was victimized by her stepfather over the years (I’m assuming that much is public record), then she would most likely have developed a sort of ‘Stockholm Syndrome’ toward her abuser(s). If Tina’s mother was allowing the stepfather back into the home, then that seriously discredits her reliability, because the same could be true of her. If Willis was aware of Tina’s former victimization, then he most likely knew it would be very easy to victimize her again, whether he physically forced her or merely groomed her by obtaining her trust- same effect. She was already severely damaged, and that should have been acknowledged in how she was treated- by everyone.
Going forward, churches really need to become more informed about the surrounding issues of child victimization. None of this negates Biblical teachings on authority, whether in the home or the church. It’s still husband/father>wife/mother>children. The church is ruled by elders and bishops. No problem. But it is no threat to authority to recognize that some abuse their authority.
[Anne Sokol] So what I’m trying to say, based on some points you have brought up here, is that one positive step some ifb churches, in the wake of this event, ought to make is re-examining the parenting styles, books, and attitudes they are promoting to parents. And it is very often tied to the attitudes pastors themselves have imbibed toward their congregations.I’m not saying it’s unique to ifb. I’m saying it’s probl’y a *trend* in ifb circles (generally speaking). If 20/20 had done a show on child abuse in ifb families/ministries, it probably would’ve been even easier than doing a show that just addressed s~xual molestation.
So, i’m just pointing out that if we’re going to learn from this incident, not just hash it over and over, this is one concrete area churches could look at and make some positive moves.
Anne- I’m not really disputing your point. Those are valid questions and goals. I guess I’m just trying to counteract some of the very unhelpful hyperbole being tossed around like confetti at the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade.
I think the word ‘blame’ has the connotation of someone or something bearing 100% of the responsibility for a situation, but we should take into account that there are very often many, MANY contributing factors. All aspects need to be examined and addressed. Flawed views of authority roles, ignorance of the realities of child abuse in general and child sexual abuse in particular, the unearned and/or misplaced ‘respect of persons’, believing that preserving a child’s innocence means keeping them ignorant of the facts of life …
You can see some statistics http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf#page=58] here , and some of the numbers are surprising. The graph citing the percentage of http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf#page=58] victims by perpetrator relationship show that 19.5% are abused by their fathers, and 43.2% by the mother. We need to be just as vigilant about abuse by mothers and female caregivers as we are fathers and stepfathers. But it is also true that abuse by women can be much different than abuse by men.
Child victim demographics show that
I think the word ‘blame’ has the connotation of someone or something bearing 100% of the responsibility for a situation, but we should take into account that there are very often many, MANY contributing factors. All aspects need to be examined and addressed. Flawed views of authority roles, ignorance of the realities of child abuse in general and child sexual abuse in particular, the unearned and/or misplaced ‘respect of persons’, believing that preserving a child’s innocence means keeping them ignorant of the facts of life …
You can see some statistics http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf#page=58] here , and some of the numbers are surprising. The graph citing the percentage of http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm09/cm09.pdf#page=58] victims by perpetrator relationship show that 19.5% are abused by their fathers, and 43.2% by the mother. We need to be just as vigilant about abuse by mothers and female caregivers as we are fathers and stepfathers. But it is also true that abuse by women can be much different than abuse by men.
Child victim demographics show that
One-third of all FFY 2009 unique victims were younger than 4 years. One-fifth of victims were in the age group 4–7 years. (See table 3–10, figure 3–2, and related notes.)Maltreatment types-
Children younger than 1 year had the highest rate of victimization at 20.6 per 1,000 children in the population of the same age. Victims with the single-year age of 1, 2, or 3 years old had a victimization rates of 11.9, 11.3, and 10.6 victims per 1,000 children of those respective ages in the population. In general, the rate and percentage of victimization decreased with age.
Victimization was split between the sexes with boys accounting for 48.2 percent and girls accounting for 51.1 percent. Less than 1 percent of victims had an unknown sex. (See table 3–11 and related notes.)
Eighty-seven percent of unique victims were comprised of three races or ethnicities—African-American (22.3%), Hispanic (20.7%), and White (44.0%). However, victims of African-American, American Indian or Alaska Native, and multiple racial descent had the highest rates of victimization at 15.1, 11.6, and 12.4 victims, respectively, per 1,000 children in the population of the same race or ethnicity. (See table 3–12, figure 3–3, and related notes.)
Four-fifths (78.3%) of unique victims were neglected, 17.8 percent were physically abused, 9.5 percent were sexually abused, 7.6 percent were psychologically maltreated, and 2.4 percent were medically neglected. These percentages sum to more than 100.0 percent because a child may have suffered more than one type of maltreatment. In addition, 9.6 percent of victims experienced such “other” types of maltreatment as “abandonment,” “threats of harm to the child,” or “congenital drug addiction.” States may code any maltreatment as “other” if it does not fall into one of the NCANDS categories listed above. (See table 3–13, figure 3–4, and related notes.)If we as ‘the church’ are going to get serious about protecting the weak, we need to also get serious about teaching mothers how to love their children more than their manicurist or their girlfriends or the mall, as well as balancing the nurturing aspect of parenting with the discipling and disciplining part of parenting.
that is exactly my point… . find out what parenting books are in your church library and what the mommy groups are discussing/supporting.
I have tons of resources if anyone would like somewhere to start… .
I have tons of resources if anyone would like somewhere to start… .
[Susan R] I appreciate your careful analysis and thoughtful treatment of the subject. It is very difficult to be objective about any topic with such strong emotional ties as those we bind to our children. A proper understanding- a Scriptural understanding- is so essential with an issue as complex as this, as well as one with such far reaching ramifications.I remember hearing Elizabeth Elliot a few years back address this issue. She recalled how that there was no word “teenager”. When you turned 12, you knew that more was expected of you and that childhood, in one sense, was over. Even though we have tried to apply that in our home, the truth is: kids are so different today. Is it cultural? or are there physical aspects to adolescence? Is it that our children don’t deal with ‘harsh realities of life and expectations” that they don’t mature? or does science support that their brains are undergoing dramatic change that doesn’t stop until about 21? (learned that in a psych class when I went back to school to get my Bachelor’s in Education). With one child, we saw early maturation in serious matters, but with our second child, it seems that the world is right. The egocentric behavior and lack of perspective was frustrating but it was her perspective. Through her own trauma, we have had to reevaluate what teens are able to handle. God has given verses such as Gideon’s son who “hesitated for he was but a youth” when asked to slay a captured king. Gideon had to do it. We also see lack of accountability when the spies returned an evil report. Those 20 and older were condemned to die in the desert. How interesting….13-19 year olds were not responsible for their unbelief.
You might find http://www.amazon.com/Case-Against-Adolescence-Rediscovering-Adult/dp/1…] The Case Against Adolescence by Robert Epstein interesting reading on the subject of how ‘coming of age’ has changed through the years. I’m not happy with some of his conclusions, but his research is sound, and I do believe we’ve allowed the infantilization of our children to reach quite ridiculous lengths- to the point that we’ve crippled their ability to mature properly. So whatever young people have been able to do in the past, from Daniel to Josiah to David Farragut, children today are barely able to clean their rooms, much less be able to make a decision about something as significant as sexual relations.
Great analysis on this important topic. It also touches the ABWE situation where they had the youngster (14, I believe) ‘confess’ to what he did when he went to the mission authorities about his abuser. The church needs to evaluate their attitudes on this and not be afraid to talk to the professionals. Counselors, social workers, police, and Christian ministeries have a lot of wisdom when it comes to understanding how our young people get caught up into some things and why they handle things the way they do afterward. They’ve been a great help to our family. I just wish our church leadership would have used them as well.
Sher
This woman was involved with the church, school and family before the rape. Her husband and her left the area when he was pursuing his doctorate but they kept in touch with people there. She heard from church members when the ‘church discipline’ was done. She has a credible perspective.
http://bobbixby.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/a-former-ifb-trinity-insider-c…
http://bobbixby.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/a-former-ifb-trinity-insider-c…
Sher
My daughter is 15, the same age as Tina Anderson when she was raped by Ernest Willis so I can look at it from the perspective of “what if this had been my daughter?”
If this were my daughter, there would’ve been no Church discipline and there would be no rape charges.
Because Ernest Willis would be DEAD!
I would be up on murder charges and my defense would be justifiable homicide - he needed killin’! Might change later to temporary insanity.;)
Now, would it be a matter of Church discipline if a man shot a low down pervert (Who also happened to be a member of the Church) for violating his daughter? :D
If this were my daughter, there would’ve been no Church discipline and there would be no rape charges.
Because Ernest Willis would be DEAD!
I would be up on murder charges and my defense would be justifiable homicide - he needed killin’! Might change later to temporary insanity.;)
Now, would it be a matter of Church discipline if a man shot a low down pervert (Who also happened to be a member of the Church) for violating his daughter? :D
When this case first came to light, I asked my kids (14 yob, 12 yog, 9 yob) a hypothetical question, and their response is based on the fact that they’ve been taught certain moral standards and safety procedures. The question was “Someone asks you to get into their car, and without checking with mom and dad, you get into the car. You soon realize that this is a very bad person, and you are attacked. What responsibility do you bear in this situation?”
“We shouldn’t have gotten into the car.”
I asked, “Is the attack your fault?”
“No.”
They understand that the only actions they are responsible for are their own, but that their actions can keep them safe or make them vulnerable. That IMO is the balance to strike. We need to teach kids how to made good decisions, based on Biblical principle, and the information we have available about how predators lure kids into vulnerable situations. And even my 9 yob knows that certain kinds of physical contact are inappropriate and/or immoral, regardless of the person doing the touching.
Tina apparently received no such teaching. She experienced a life of abuse that most likely did serious damage to her ability to process her moral choices sensibly. However, I’ve known other women with the same past who took matters into their own hands, even as children, and ended their abuse. We simply do not know why people react differently to trauma. But we can’t completely toss out the idea that one always has a choice.
Obviously there are instances, like the Elizabeth Smart case, where she was removed from her bed at knife point. But that is not what we are talking about here.
Proverbs 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.
On a side note- my kids also take Kenpo lessons, and are learning how to disable an attacker and get away. I highly recommend parents choose a good self-defense program in their area and enroll their children. PREVENTION, people.
“We shouldn’t have gotten into the car.”
I asked, “Is the attack your fault?”
“No.”
They understand that the only actions they are responsible for are their own, but that their actions can keep them safe or make them vulnerable. That IMO is the balance to strike. We need to teach kids how to made good decisions, based on Biblical principle, and the information we have available about how predators lure kids into vulnerable situations. And even my 9 yob knows that certain kinds of physical contact are inappropriate and/or immoral, regardless of the person doing the touching.
Tina apparently received no such teaching. She experienced a life of abuse that most likely did serious damage to her ability to process her moral choices sensibly. However, I’ve known other women with the same past who took matters into their own hands, even as children, and ended their abuse. We simply do not know why people react differently to trauma. But we can’t completely toss out the idea that one always has a choice.
Obviously there are instances, like the Elizabeth Smart case, where she was removed from her bed at knife point. But that is not what we are talking about here.
Proverbs 20:11 Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.
On a side note- my kids also take Kenpo lessons, and are learning how to disable an attacker and get away. I highly recommend parents choose a good self-defense program in their area and enroll their children. PREVENTION, people.
” I come to you with only karate, empty hands. I have no weapons, but should I be forced to defend myself, my principles or my honor; should it be a matter of life or death, of right or wrong; then here are my weapons, karate, my empty hands.” —Ed Parker - March, 1957
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