Trinity Member about the ABC 20/20 New Magazine
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Good morning,
I have been reading all of the posts in the last thread regarding Trinity and the ABC 20/20 report coming on tonight. Many were very thoughtful and are encouraging to me, as a long time member of Trinity Baptist Church. Although I joind the church the year after the incident took place in 1997, I sat under the teaching of both Pastor Phelps and Pastor Fuller. I have a great deal of respect for both of these men…but again, the key word here is men. I am also a former police officer in NH so I have a bit of knowledge on how the laws work.
Knowing Pastor Fuller as well as I do, I can assure you he is very greived over the incident and how it was handled. He also joined the church after the incident and had no idea it had occurred until February of 2010 when he received the first phone call. As many have stated, legal issues sometimes conflict with what God’s word says is correct. Attorneys would have you keep quiet about incidents such as these because of self incrimination. However, when someone keeps silence, the community runs wild with speculation and half truths.
I believe Pastor Phelps made a mistake in 1997 when this occurred in how he handled it. Having said that and knowing his heart, I believe he always thought he was doing the right thing and was never, ever, trying to cover anything up.
One of the aspects that gets lost in this whole sad issue, is the Concord Police Department’s handling of the case. In short, they dropped the ball. The Concord Police Dpartment is probably the 3rd or 4th largest police department in the State. There were reports that when Tina went to live in Colorado, that it ended the Concord Police Departments ability to prosecute the case as they had no witness. That is a false hood. The Concord Police A. Never asked any one where Tina was. B. If they had known, the local police department in Colorado could have conducted an interview and garnered enough information about the crime to indict Ernie Willis. C. If Pastor Phelps had refused to provide them with information on Tina’s whereabouts, an obstruction of justice charge would have come pretty quickly. D. Even if Pastor Phelps had not provided the Concord PD with her address, there are several ways to find out including through the Postal Services, and also an entry in NCIC as a missing person. If Tina ever tried do anything, such as obtain a license, or anything to do with a minicipality, a traffic stop, NCIC would have ticked up with a hit. So in short, Concord PD did not follow through.
Pastor Fuller and the congregation have taken steps to assure this never happens again. Trinity has amended their constitution to insure a minor can never be brought before the congregation. Pastor Fuller spent Wednesday evening service talking to us about this. The church has claims Micah 6:8. “He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is: good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God”
I ask for your prayers for all involved. But above all, I ask for your prayers that through this trial and possible correction, that God will be glorified and it will lead to the furtherence of the Gospel, especially in the Concord, NH area.
I have been reading all of the posts in the last thread regarding Trinity and the ABC 20/20 report coming on tonight. Many were very thoughtful and are encouraging to me, as a long time member of Trinity Baptist Church. Although I joind the church the year after the incident took place in 1997, I sat under the teaching of both Pastor Phelps and Pastor Fuller. I have a great deal of respect for both of these men…but again, the key word here is men. I am also a former police officer in NH so I have a bit of knowledge on how the laws work.
Knowing Pastor Fuller as well as I do, I can assure you he is very greived over the incident and how it was handled. He also joined the church after the incident and had no idea it had occurred until February of 2010 when he received the first phone call. As many have stated, legal issues sometimes conflict with what God’s word says is correct. Attorneys would have you keep quiet about incidents such as these because of self incrimination. However, when someone keeps silence, the community runs wild with speculation and half truths.
I believe Pastor Phelps made a mistake in 1997 when this occurred in how he handled it. Having said that and knowing his heart, I believe he always thought he was doing the right thing and was never, ever, trying to cover anything up.
One of the aspects that gets lost in this whole sad issue, is the Concord Police Department’s handling of the case. In short, they dropped the ball. The Concord Police Dpartment is probably the 3rd or 4th largest police department in the State. There were reports that when Tina went to live in Colorado, that it ended the Concord Police Departments ability to prosecute the case as they had no witness. That is a false hood. The Concord Police A. Never asked any one where Tina was. B. If they had known, the local police department in Colorado could have conducted an interview and garnered enough information about the crime to indict Ernie Willis. C. If Pastor Phelps had refused to provide them with information on Tina’s whereabouts, an obstruction of justice charge would have come pretty quickly. D. Even if Pastor Phelps had not provided the Concord PD with her address, there are several ways to find out including through the Postal Services, and also an entry in NCIC as a missing person. If Tina ever tried do anything, such as obtain a license, or anything to do with a minicipality, a traffic stop, NCIC would have ticked up with a hit. So in short, Concord PD did not follow through.
Pastor Fuller and the congregation have taken steps to assure this never happens again. Trinity has amended their constitution to insure a minor can never be brought before the congregation. Pastor Fuller spent Wednesday evening service talking to us about this. The church has claims Micah 6:8. “He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is: good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God”
I ask for your prayers for all involved. But above all, I ask for your prayers that through this trial and possible correction, that God will be glorified and it will lead to the furtherence of the Gospel, especially in the Concord, NH area.
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Hi Louise,
Pastor Fuller has spoken directly with Tina. He was shocked and saddened when he found out about this. When this all came out, Pastor Fuller was at the hospital with his wife for the birth of their third child. Also, it was not Tina who brought this to light, but a former church member who continued to sit at the services up until a few years ago, even when he was “troubled” by what went on in 1997.
My wife and I left Trinity for about a year and a half and went to a smaller church. Not because we were angry with or disagreed with Trinity, but rather we felt we could be a servant in a smaller church. Trinity membership is about 1,000 and it is easy to hide and just kind of show up. After the news broke in May/June of last year of the 1997 events, we both felt a draw to return…can’t explain it, but we did.
Unfortunately, I responded to posts on local newspaper websites ina defensive manner and probably did not come across as modeling how a Christian should behave. Pastor Fuller has told me that’s not the kind of response we should be providing and I agree and am sorry to anyone I hurt in the defense of my Pastor(s).
Pastor Fuller has gone against advice from attorneys by granting interviews to media outlets, including 20 20. He believes that while Trinity has nothing to hide, that we do have something to learn.
Upon our return to Trinity, my wife and I found a more relaxed atmosphere under Pastor Fuller. He has not in any way, amended th doctrinal statement/position of the church and has no intention to. However the constitution has changed as I mentioned.
I come from a Catholic background and for a time when I was 19, considered the priesthood. I was also molested by a priest when I was very young. A priest from Dublin Ireland who was 6’6” with a beard…quite imposing.
I feel badly for Tina although I do not know her. I know her parents…not well. I had always thought that if her mother had spoken out about what was done and how it was handled and her agreement with it, things might have been different. But she didn’t.
My wife and I have been through some difficult times with our children and on ocasion, had our hearts broken. However, we really try to find out what lesson God is teaching us…not only our daughter. I believe Pastor Fuller and Trinity have approached this the same way. They are looking to learn from this…and have.
Pastor Fuller has spoken directly with Tina. He was shocked and saddened when he found out about this. When this all came out, Pastor Fuller was at the hospital with his wife for the birth of their third child. Also, it was not Tina who brought this to light, but a former church member who continued to sit at the services up until a few years ago, even when he was “troubled” by what went on in 1997.
My wife and I left Trinity for about a year and a half and went to a smaller church. Not because we were angry with or disagreed with Trinity, but rather we felt we could be a servant in a smaller church. Trinity membership is about 1,000 and it is easy to hide and just kind of show up. After the news broke in May/June of last year of the 1997 events, we both felt a draw to return…can’t explain it, but we did.
Unfortunately, I responded to posts on local newspaper websites ina defensive manner and probably did not come across as modeling how a Christian should behave. Pastor Fuller has told me that’s not the kind of response we should be providing and I agree and am sorry to anyone I hurt in the defense of my Pastor(s).
Pastor Fuller has gone against advice from attorneys by granting interviews to media outlets, including 20 20. He believes that while Trinity has nothing to hide, that we do have something to learn.
Upon our return to Trinity, my wife and I found a more relaxed atmosphere under Pastor Fuller. He has not in any way, amended th doctrinal statement/position of the church and has no intention to. However the constitution has changed as I mentioned.
I come from a Catholic background and for a time when I was 19, considered the priesthood. I was also molested by a priest when I was very young. A priest from Dublin Ireland who was 6’6” with a beard…quite imposing.
I feel badly for Tina although I do not know her. I know her parents…not well. I had always thought that if her mother had spoken out about what was done and how it was handled and her agreement with it, things might have been different. But she didn’t.
My wife and I have been through some difficult times with our children and on ocasion, had our hearts broken. However, we really try to find out what lesson God is teaching us…not only our daughter. I believe Pastor Fuller and Trinity have approached this the same way. They are looking to learn from this…and have.
I ask for your prayers for all involved. But above all, I ask for your prayers that through this trial and possible correction, that God will be glorified and it will lead to the furtherence of the Gospel …Now that’s a statement I can support!
Trinity’s anniversary program was planned far in advance (over a year), prior to this whole issue coming out and Pastor Phelps had been invited and did attend. He was after all, one of only three pastors the church had since its founding in 1980. Pastor Valentine, Pastor Phelps, Pastor Fuller.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, Pastor Phelps is just a man and he was and is loved by many at Trinity. I do not know what private conversations, if any, Pastor Phelp’s has had with any of the persons involved regarding apologies. I believe Pastor Phelps was using James (pardon me I don’t know the exact verse or chapter) where James instructs us to “confess our sins one to another.” While I have always interpreted that passage to mean and I am understating for simplicity, an accountability partner, he apparently interprets it more broadly. I hope I am clear and not misleading anyone.
Since Pastor Phelps is in Indianapolis I really don’t know what his heart is on the matter regarding whether he still believes he acted accordingly or whether in hindsight, he would change the way he handled things. Pastor Phelps was always their for me when I needed counsel and I always thought the counsel sound.
In defense of Pastor Phelps, I remember he always advised the congregation to never go out and say to others, “My Pastor says this, or my Pastor says that…”. We were all advised to test him by researching Scripture on our own and always be prepared to answer anyone with “the Bible says” not “My Pastor says”.
Please don’t get me wrong. Many people left Trinity when this came to light. However, about an equal number of people have joined. God has been good. Trinity has a very nice facility in Concord - lots of space - very nice. But I can tell you that the core group of believers (the majority - can never speak for everybody) including the pastoral staff, would go back to meeting in a school if that’s what God wants. Obviously we hope and don’t think it will. But we are under a clear understanding that the church is not the building…but the body of believers.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, Pastor Phelps is just a man and he was and is loved by many at Trinity. I do not know what private conversations, if any, Pastor Phelp’s has had with any of the persons involved regarding apologies. I believe Pastor Phelps was using James (pardon me I don’t know the exact verse or chapter) where James instructs us to “confess our sins one to another.” While I have always interpreted that passage to mean and I am understating for simplicity, an accountability partner, he apparently interprets it more broadly. I hope I am clear and not misleading anyone.
Since Pastor Phelps is in Indianapolis I really don’t know what his heart is on the matter regarding whether he still believes he acted accordingly or whether in hindsight, he would change the way he handled things. Pastor Phelps was always their for me when I needed counsel and I always thought the counsel sound.
In defense of Pastor Phelps, I remember he always advised the congregation to never go out and say to others, “My Pastor says this, or my Pastor says that…”. We were all advised to test him by researching Scripture on our own and always be prepared to answer anyone with “the Bible says” not “My Pastor says”.
Please don’t get me wrong. Many people left Trinity when this came to light. However, about an equal number of people have joined. God has been good. Trinity has a very nice facility in Concord - lots of space - very nice. But I can tell you that the core group of believers (the majority - can never speak for everybody) including the pastoral staff, would go back to meeting in a school if that’s what God wants. Obviously we hope and don’t think it will. But we are under a clear understanding that the church is not the building…but the body of believers.
What Pastor Phelps really needs to do is come out and said I made a mistake. The problem appers that he is digging his heels in and will not apologize for anything. Did he do anything illegal? I don’t believe so, but that could remain to be seen. Did he do something wrong? Yes, somewhere along the line Pastor Phelps made a mistake, though he was not the only one. It would be a great thing if Phelps would admit his mistakes and move on. However, I don’t think he will do it, everytime I’ve had contact with him, he always came across as arrogant.
That Pastor Fuller has reached out or has attempted to reach out to Tina Anderson and acknowledging that she has been “Wronged” is encouraging. This is the right thing to do.
Sometimes our response is dictated by legal counsel rather than what the scriptures clearly state. We are often told not to make any sort of statement that may be an “Admission of Guilt” as this may expose you and your organization to litigation. Churches often (and wrongly IMO) follow this advice feeling like they should do whatever they need to do in order to protect the “work”, protect the “Ministry” (read the 501c3 corporate entity with properties, buildings, and other tangible assets) even at the expense of the ones who are actually and scripturally THE CHURCH!
Pastor Phelps has dug himself in deep here. From what I can tell, he was quite wrong in the way he handled the situation and had he admitted so back then, perhaps there wouldn’t be such a mess as you have right now!
There was a story not too long ago regarding a Presbyterian Church that faced a similar crisis regarding a Youth Pastor who had an inappropriate relationship with one of the teens. This congregation dared to go against their legal counsel and has openly confessed their failure to the community, to the victims, and are reaching out and ministering to those who have been hurt as a result of actions of this Youth Pastor! I will have to do some further research to see the outcome here, whether or not there has been any civil action against this Church, and what their current standing is in the community. Seems to me though that they handled this in the proper, biblical manner, and I pray the LORD blesses them abundantly as a result!
Perhaps it is time we start placing the WORD OF GOD over that of our legal counsel and insurance policies?
And if we are so ensnared by our “Material Prosperity” that it keeps us from doing the right thing, then perhaps this is something the LORD will have to deal with so that perhaps we will buy of him that “Gold tried in the fire that we may be rich”?
Sometimes our response is dictated by legal counsel rather than what the scriptures clearly state. We are often told not to make any sort of statement that may be an “Admission of Guilt” as this may expose you and your organization to litigation. Churches often (and wrongly IMO) follow this advice feeling like they should do whatever they need to do in order to protect the “work”, protect the “Ministry” (read the 501c3 corporate entity with properties, buildings, and other tangible assets) even at the expense of the ones who are actually and scripturally THE CHURCH!
Pastor Phelps has dug himself in deep here. From what I can tell, he was quite wrong in the way he handled the situation and had he admitted so back then, perhaps there wouldn’t be such a mess as you have right now!
There was a story not too long ago regarding a Presbyterian Church that faced a similar crisis regarding a Youth Pastor who had an inappropriate relationship with one of the teens. This congregation dared to go against their legal counsel and has openly confessed their failure to the community, to the victims, and are reaching out and ministering to those who have been hurt as a result of actions of this Youth Pastor! I will have to do some further research to see the outcome here, whether or not there has been any civil action against this Church, and what their current standing is in the community. Seems to me though that they handled this in the proper, biblical manner, and I pray the LORD blesses them abundantly as a result!
Perhaps it is time we start placing the WORD OF GOD over that of our legal counsel and insurance policies?
And if we are so ensnared by our “Material Prosperity” that it keeps us from doing the right thing, then perhaps this is something the LORD will have to deal with so that perhaps we will buy of him that “Gold tried in the fire that we may be rich”?
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