Golden State Bible College President on administrative leave over allegations of 'inappropriate conduct'
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Proper channels sometimes don’t exist, practically speaking.
Oh, I see. There were no police, no board, no local victims advocates.
But what country are we talking about, again? I was assuming U. S. A….. and planet earth.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
This is why major federal and state bureaucracies have Inspectors General … They recognize the need for a whistle-blower program, and they take steps to ensure violations can and will be reported to an independent party with authority and jurisdiction to handle it. Private enterprises often have some equivalent program (if they’re prudent).
What would the equivalent look like for a local church?
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
[Aaron Blumer]Proper channels sometimes don’t exist, practically speaking.
Oh, I see. There were no police, no board, no local victims advocates.
But what country are we talking about, again? I was assuming U. S. A….. and planet earth.
In several evangelical cases, leaders have made clear that if someone goes to the police or board of trustees, their academic careers there are over. You cannot ignore that, Aaron.
Or, rather, you can and you do, but all it does is to make the situation far worse.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
What would the equivalent look like for a local church?
Here’s the crux. There is no equivalent for a local church, especially if the accused is the pastor. This is exactly what I meant when I said that local church autonomy works against us…there is no hierarchy or denominational channel to utilize.
I guess the only other option is go to the police and run the risk of the cops going in and arresting your pastor / elder / SS teacher without warning, then trying to explain it all to your angry board of deacons/elders and the rest of your church.
"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells
In several evangelical cases, leaders have made clear that if someone goes to the police or board of trustees, their academic careers there are over. You cannot ignore that, Aaron.
Apparently I can.
But here’s my question: how do you know this about these evangelical cases? You only know if:
a. You are personally acquainted with a victim.
b. You read it in a news story, in which case it’s public (assuming, the reporter did his/her job and verified facts)
c. You heard a rumor and decided it was true…. but that isn’t really knowing, is it?
If the case is a., the beginning and end of your responsibility is clear: you can urge the victim to take the matter to the authorities. If he/she won’t do that, there is nothing more you can do, though the victim still has quite a few options. If the case is b., it’s already out and us random internet people have nothing to contribute. If it’s c., that’s spreading gossip and rumors and surely I don’t have to prove that’s about six different kinds of wrong.
So it sounds like the only thing of substance in all this going in circles is that victims are sometimes intimidated against taking the crime to people who can do something about it. Yes, that happens. It mostly happens in places other than fundamental churches and ministries. It shouldn’t happen at all, but yeah, it’s a reality.
I’m all for getting the message out to victims that they will be protected if they go to the authorities. In the biz I’m in, we call it public awareness. What the legit. part of #metoo is, for example, is victims encouraging other victims to tell their stories. I have no objection to that whatsoever. More power to them. But that has no resemblance at all to random internet people obsessing over the latest scandal that is already public and already being handled by the authorities. Once it’s being handled by people who have that responsibility, nobody anywhere who is uninvolved has anything to contribute.
Post to follow on how big the “victims not reporting” problem actually is. I assure you, a tiny minority of victims who don’t report are being intimidated by evangelicals or fundamentalists.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
This data is mostly from the NCVS, National Crime Victimization Survey… All U.S. data.
You can read aobut the NCVS here: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245. There are at least two other major sources of violent crime data: FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting system data https://ucr.fbi.gov/ and U.S. Sentencing Commission’s data on conviction and imprisonment rates. https://www.ussc.gov/research. NCVS is the best data we have on victimizations because it’s more granular than FBI’s data (but won’t be after they go to NIBRS) and because it doesn’t rely on being reported by police who voluntarily participate in the Uniform Crime Reporting system. So it’s probably more complete. The survey is anonymous so more people who would otherwise be intimidated feel free to report. But it’s also not verified, so efforts are made to correct for error, but some offenses could be overreported.
There’s no such as perfect data. But it’s the best data we have.
- In 2016, people over age 12 experienced 5.7 million violent victimizations (includes robbery and all forms of assault https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16_sum.pdf).
- 323,450 rape/sexual assault victimizations occurred in 2016 (p.5 https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16.pdf) (“Sexual assaults include attacks or attempted attacks generally involving unwanted sexual contact between the victim and offender that may involve force”)
- 1,109,610 domestic violence victimizations occurred in 2016 (p.5 https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16.pdf)
- 58% of victims of any kind of violent crime in 2016 didn’t report it to police (https://ojp.gov/ojpblog/blog-ncvs2016.htm )
- 22% of rape/sexual assault victims reported to police in 2016. (p.7, https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16.pdf)
- 49% of domestic violence victims reported to police in 2016 (also p.7 https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv16.pdf)
Why they didn’t report…
- 34% of victims who chose not to report (2006 to 2010 data) said they dealt with the problem another way. (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/vnrp0610.pdf)
- 13% of non-reporting victims said (2006 to 2010 data) they were afraid of reprisal or were afraid of getting the offender in trouble. (same source)
- 18% of non-reporting victims (same source) said it wasn’t important enough to report.
If you want to look for especially vulnerable and highly-victimized groups to advocate for…
- Persons with disabilities are victims of violent crime at three times the rate of non-disabled persons (2009 to 2015 data. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/capd0915st_sum.pdf)
- Elderly: victimized violently at a lower rate, but more vulnerable than general population (2013 data https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cae0313.pdf)
- How about human trafficking victims and, worse yet, child sex trafficking (http://www.missingkids.com/theissues/cse/cstt)?
(Yes I actually read all these reports. And many, many more.)
This is intended to provide some perspective. There’s a whole lot of evil out there and a whole lot of victims not reporting it. This can’t be fixed. It can be mitigated somewhat in a variety of ways. The best ways are local, where crime is supposed to be reported. Victims can certainly help by encouraging other victims to come forward. Random, uninvolved (which includes non-victims), and far away internet people tsk tsking about alleged intimidation in a tiny handful of cases are not contributing significantly to solving the problem.
This is a truism, but apparently has to be said: people who have no power to actually bring about a change cannot bring about a change by talking about bringing about a change.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
I don’t have that data.
As for these cases you never seem to tire of recounting….
Victims can certainly help by encouraging other victims to come forward. Random, uninvolved (which includes non-victims), and far away internet people tsk tsking about alleged intimidation in a tiny handful of cases are not contributing significantly to solving the problem.
Edit: actually, you check the “survey methodology” sections of the reports I linked, but I’m pretty sure NCVS doesn’t distinguish between married or not married for reported sexual assault victimizations. So while I don’t have any stats on the number of child marriages, the NCVS data probably includes assaults in those relationships. … not that it has any relevance either way to the point that nobody far away and unconnected is making a whit of difference.
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
Aaron, my source on the students who could not speak up about what was going on with Patterson include several current and former SWBTS students and staffers, one of whose work was posted here on SI, Ed Stetzer. It also includes the SWBTS BOT, which admitted, contrary to Mr. (not Dr., NOT Pastor) Paige Patterson’s claims made to public media, that the student fired for speaking his mind about Mr. Patterson’s behavior had an impeccable student record there.
Sorry, but it’s pretty darned clear that speaking your mind in a way that Paige Patterson didn’t like was indeed a way to get one’s can kicked out of SWBTS, and at SEBTS before that.
You seem to have a habit of either (a) not reading some fairly clear pronouncements, at least one of which you linked on these forii or (b) ignoring obvious conclusions from some fairly well sourced work. Sorry, but I don’t buy this “you really don’t know.” Closer to the truth might be “Aaron doesn’t pay attention to the papers”, but please stop giving me this nonsense of “you don’t know.”
And yes, you seem to be, despite all evidence, of the opinion that outsiders don’t change things, which is why public outcry compelled ABWE to hire first GRACE and then PII, and it’s why public outcry compelled BJU to hire GRACE twice (despite an ill advised firing because an investigator was actually acting like an investigator), and it’s why public outcry compelled MSU to make a half billion dollar payment that legally speaking they were not required to make, and it’s why public outcry just got the Michigan legislature to pass 27 bills to make it easier to punish child sexual abuse, and it’s why public outcry just got SWBTS to do the right thing with Paige Patterson.
Sorry, Aaron, but at some point you have got to actually look at the data and say “we have a problem here.” It is not that subtle, and it is not that hard to accurately read between the lines.
Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.
Mr. (not Dr., NOT Pastor) Paige Patterson’s
So a man with a Ph.D. isn’t a Dr?
Closing this thread. For reasons why, see my first comment in the thread, and reference this one:
Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.
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