Shedding Some Light on Conservative Evangelicalism

I grew up in Winston Salem, NC, a city of roughly 230,000. Not large, but by North Carolina standards, in the top five. Over the years, I’ve bumped into people from rural towns who have noted, sometimes with genuine deference, “Oh, you’re from the big city.” This makes me chuckle considering Winston would probably fit inside of Donald Trump’s living room. Our worldview is potently molded to our experiences such that it affects our perception of objective data and propositional truth.

If your experience of the Christian faith has been primarily independent, fundamentalist, traditional and conservative, operating in small to medium-sized churches, then your perception of evangelicalism may be similar to a small town resident visiting a large city. Bigger doesn’t mean better, but it is certainly different with diverse and multiple choices. This is not to denigrate traditional conservatives (whom I have affectionately nicknamed Tracons) or small towns. It is to illustrate perceptual distinctions. Why write about this? Let me explain.

Our church staff and elders attended the Gospel Coalition 2011 conference in Chicago this past week. What we experienced was simple, but profound, gracious, yet powerful. The subject matter, Preaching Christ from the Old Testament, was well crafted and delivered from many regions of the older testament by gifted pastors and leaders. Some of you may have read the updates. While writing the updates and ruminating on the spectrum of participants and contributors at SharperIron, I considered the many articles and comments deliberating the topics of conservative evangelicals, culture, cooperation, fences, separation, etc. It occurred to me that “small town/large city” perceptions exist that skew an appreciation of the believers some have termed “fundagelicals.”

My comments are not meant to define nor defend TGC. You can read their confessional statements and theological vision here. I hope to bring some clarity to the ongoing tension between those of you within the Tracon ecosystem, and those like myself, who are fundamentally grounded in orthodoxy, but less traditional in orthopraxy.

At TGC the entire conference pointed the attendees to Jesus Christ. Every introduction, song, message and workshop proclaimed explicitly that Jesus is Lord. His glory and sovereignty over this world and individual lives were woven into the tapestry of events. I write this because when I read certain debates on this site, I often see a black & white, cut and dried viewpoint that imparts to evangelicals some nebulous legitimacy within Christendom while maintaining fundamentalism as the theocentric ministry gold standard. As difficult as it might be for Tracons to hear, TGC leaders preach God’s Word unapologetically. The Bible is their defining source of reference for all things pertaining to life and godliness. Why the negative little zinger?

I think that many conservative folk who have chosen a traditional path of ministry, with traditional personal standards and traditional music assume that those who do not share their specific personal convictions and conclusions in these matters don’t share equal footing in God’s kingdom. Allow me to illustrate. Please note that I respect Dr. Bauder, whom I know only through his writings. I also appreciate the dialogue he has initiated on this subject. In his Reflections article after ATC, he made a couple of statements that I think sum up the general mindset within the Tracon ecosystem.

If someone is choosing between fundamentalism and conservative evangelicalism, then fundamentalism is the right choice. And if one is looking for a movement that offers structures through which to advance ideas, it may be the only choice.

Later, he writes:

Conservative evangelicalism is on the far side of fundamentalism from me.

Bauder concludes he is a conservative Christian, neither CE or Fundie. Nonetheless, his conclusions are illustrative of the significant divergence between Tracon and CE mindsets. One, somehow there exists a choice between two teams. “You can be a Cowboys fan, or you can be a Redskins fan, but you can’t be both.” Two, my personal position is home base. Every other theocentric ministry style must measure itself against my personal conclusions. In this is the perceptual distinction. CE’s do not think in these terms.

Within CE circles, there is broad and open acceptance of differing points of view, different styles, and different approaches to ministry. TGC doesn’t promote one way as the best way. In fact, you will hear recommendations to form heterogeneous ministry partnerships. What is promoted is the power of the gospel over people’s lives. Everything is pointed back to redemption, the power of the gospel and the sovereignty of God.

I’ve seen Tracons hypothesize in regard to CE’s, “I appreciate this, that or the other, but I couldn’t join in ministry with them.” Or “I like him, but I couldn’t share a stage with him.” OK, please don’t take this the wrong way, but they don’t care. CE’s have no concern whether or not you think they have the right framework for advancing ideas. They are devoted to serving the Lord, advancing the gospel, seeing God work in lives. The leaders of the CE movement are biblical, spiritually minded and servant hearted. Those involved in their ministries love the Lord, long to see Him glorified and work tirelessly to that end. They attempt to avoid the theoretical and operate in the real. Here’s the rub. Tracon ministries are decreasing in influence while CE’s are increasing.

I hope you will think about this deeply. You must recognize the movement and flow of young adults into the CE ecosystem. It started a decade ago and has built great momentum. Events like TGC highlight the influx. ATC drew 500. TGC drew 6000+. Size is not success, but it illustrates the direction of flow for kingdom resources, both capital and human. One only need look at the attendance patterns of the last decade at Bible colleges and Tracon churches to recognize the significance of the changes.

Some think this shift highlights the gravitation to worldliness and attractional ministry, and sadly a Christianized pop culture does exist in some churches. Yet many are gravitating to the power of the preaching, the proactivity of the ministries and the principal emphasis on biblical community.

You’ll have to take my word for this anecdotal evidence. I have spoken with countless men and women in the last five years who have left a traditional ministry setting for our CE church. Two things I hear often. One, “I’ve never heard the gospel preached so clearly, so practically and with such high expectations.” Two, “The people here are authentic believers. Jesus is real to them seven days a week.” There is genuine, humble, loving and biblical ministry outside of the walls of traditional fundamentalism.

In conclusion, the reason I started with TGC is that it represents a nexus of CE’s. It should help us to put into perspective what is happening in our generation. I’m not suggesting Tracons should migrate, I am advocating a recognition of God’s hand at work among his multifarious body, the church.

I hope each of us will rejoice in knowing that God is working in diverse ways through countless individuals and innumerable churches to accomplish His will. The uniting factor is the transformative redemption found only in Jesus Christ. Despite this complex hurricane of a discussion, remember what Paul wrote: “And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.” (ESV, Col. 3:14).

dmicah Bio

Micah Pattisall is the Pastor of Church Life at Salem Chapel in Winston Salem, North Carolina. He graduated from Piedmont Baptist College with a degree in Biblical Studies. His primary responsibilities are small groups, assimilation, local ministry and counseling. He and his wife have three sons and live just outside of Winston Salem. He blogs sporadically at www.micahpattisall.com.

Discussion

Don, you did miss the point. Most if not all of us who leave fundamentalism think and pray long and hard about the decision - as I’m sure you and Roland did about your decision to move towards or stay within fundamentalism.

As to conforming to God’s Will, I would not be where I am theologically and denominationally today if I didn’t believe this was God’s Will as revealed in the Scriptures.

Ben

Ben, I am not denying that you thought long and hard. I am saying that the long hard thinking doesn’t mean anything as it is stated here. I can’t say, “I’ve thought long and hard about it and all those Presbyterians should become Baptists.” My thinking long and hard about doesn’t mean anything.

So I’m just saying that as far as the argument goes, it really is irrelevant how long and hard we think about it. What matters is whether we are right or not.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

[Don Johnson] Ben, I am not denying that you thought long and hard. I am saying that the long hard thinking doesn’t mean anything as it is stated here. I can’t say, “I’ve thought long and hard about it and all those Presbyterians should become Baptists.” My thinking long and hard about doesn’t mean anything.

So I’m just saying that as far as the argument goes, it really is irrelevant how long and hard we think about it. What matters is whether we are right or not.
AGAIN, Don, I don’t know what you’re saying has to do with what Ben wrote. He didn’t say, “I thought long and hard, so I’m right and you’re wrong.” Did he?

He was responding to Roland who implied that those who leave fundamentalism haven’t truly thought it out. Ben was saying he made a thoughtful, prayerful, and (here’s the key) Scripture-based (in his opinion) decision. He said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about those who choose to stay in fundamentalism. He did not state, imply, suggest, or hint that those who stay in fundamentalism are not thoughtful. Of course he agrees with you that the final decision should not be based on his thoughtfulness, but on on Scripture itself. That seemed to be pretty clear to me from his post.

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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

[RPittman] The author’s glowing report of the CEs is a halo effect by not recognizing the many problems of CEs. It is an uneven comparison in juxtaposition with the problems of Fundamentalism, which we well know because we are better acquainted.
This is exactly what Ben was referring to. He was stating that in his case there was no “halo effect,” but rather a decision that he arrived after much thought based on what he believe Scripture states on the matter. That’s exactly what I was referring to as well. You assume that anyone who gives a positive recommendation of CE or who has left fundamentalism has done so because of a “halo effect.” That may be true in some cases but it is not true in all cases.

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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

[RPittman]
[Ron Bean] Easter Sunday morning I attended a CE church. Next to me sat a young man in jeans and sporting dreadlocks. As an “old fundie”, you can probably guess what thoughts were going through my mind. My imagined sterotype of someone from outside my “village” (please excuse the movie reference) started to disappear as we sang “Look Ye Saints! The Sight is Glorious” to Bryn Calafaria and this guy was singing with an enthusiasm I hadn’t seen on a young person in years. The sermon was over an hour and included a brief but bold denunciation of those who would deny the fact of the resurrection and a wonderful exposition of the resurrection account and its application. The church is more than people who go to hear a sermon and then spend their week trying to get other people to come and hear a sermon. Service opportunities in the church are more than being an usher, working in the nursery, teaching Sunday School, and singing in the choir (they don’t have one and I didn’t miss the annual Easter cantata).

Would someone please tell me what’s wrong with this church and why I should give it up for one of the churches in my area that are decidedly non-CE but are noted more for what they’re against than what they’re for..
So, Ron, are you saying that this experience is what changed your view?
RPittman, what I’m saying is that in my repeated experience at this CE church I have seen or heard nothing contrary to the Bible but I have seen and heard things that have strengthened and encouraged me Biblically.

What I asked is highlighted.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

[Ron Bean]
[RPittman]
[Ron Bean] Would someone please tell me what’s wrong with this church and why I should give it up for one of the churches in my area that are decidedly non-CE but are noted more for what they’re against than what they’re for..
So, Ron, are you saying that this experience is what changed your view?
RPittman, what I’m saying is that in my repeated experience at this CE church I have seen or heard nothing contrary to the Bible but I have seen and heard things that have strengthened and encouraged me Biblically.

What I asked is highlighted.
Ron, surely you don’t really expect an answer to that question in a forum like this. How could such an answer be meaningful? If I were to attend that church with you and examine in detail each facet of its ministry, the theology and philosophy of the pastors, etc., I might be able to point out some serious errors or ramifications of your participation in such a church. Or maybe not. But you surely don’t expect anyone to give you such an answer based only on your one paragraph description, do you?

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Thanks for the article Micah. You’ll soon realize that these posts and responses will all bring up the same issues over and over again. Its starting to become pointless. It’ll take the grace of God for ifbdom to realize that the energies spent debating each other on whats “worth saving” and “who’s in or out” is a dead horse that needs to be picked up and buried.

If the historical fundies could peak down from heaven, who would they see as carrying the torcch of their message?

Ecclesia semper reformanda est

For the sake of summary, simplicity and specificity could someone (perhaps RPittman, who last used this phrase) list some of these many problems of CE’s?

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Ron, you asked a good question. The only complaints that I’ve seen about CE’s on this site boil down to two things:

1. Separation that doesn’t look like Tracon separation and therefore isn’t taking place in the way that Tracons would deem appropriate.

2. Affiliations are taken as actual endorsements of everything that CE’s do. So MacArthur is evil because he’s associated with the Resolved Conference, and Mohler is unforgivable because he signed the Manhattan Declaration, despite the fact that he’s said signing it was a mistake. Nevermind that MacArthur or Mohler stand or fall before the Lord based on what he’s done with the works in his own body.

Of course, the critics usually don’t boil it down that easily.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

[Greg Long] C’mon, Don, you completely missed his point. He wasn’t saying he’s the only who thought about it. He’s reacting to Roland, who seems to indicate that the only reason people leave fundamentalism is because they are starry-eyed sophomores who are enraptured by CE. Ben was simply saying that this is not true of him, that his decision to leave fundamentalism was a careful and sober one. Again, he didn’t make any suggestion that those who stay in fundamentalism aren’t thoughtful. I’m not sure why you reacted so sarcastically to his post.
Ben’s observation is valid, because every person that I know of who has left Fundyville for CECity has either been turned off by Tracons behavior or has found enough Scriptural deficiencies in the Tracon practice that the whole system collapses.

One of those deficiencies is the skewed understanding of separation, which leads to people being ‘separated from’ when they have never been Scripturally confronted in the first place about their “error”, or why it’s really not a big deal that when leaders of the FBF go and fellowship with the heretics and apostates of Hammond.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells

[Ron Bean] For the sake of summary, simplicity and specificity could someone (perhaps RPittman, who last used this phrase) list some of these many problems of CE’s?
Ron, let me first acknowledge that there are many valuable contributions to Christian thought and life by Conservative Evangelicals. I think most of us who have problems with them do appreciate their ministries (to varying degrees).

Here are some of the problems from my perspective:

  1. The growing influence of charismatism - the charismatics have major problems when it comes to inspiration, inerrancy and the canon. They either believe in ongoing revelation (denying a closed canon) or they believe the Bible is in error when it expressly says that Agabus spoke his prophecy by the “Spirit”. The influence of charismatism has widely altered the shape of evangelicalism at large. Next year at 9Marks, one of the Sovereign Grace men will be teaching from 1 Cor 12-14. What do you suppose will be the topic of discussion?
  2. The tolerance of worldliness on many levels, including the widespread tolerance of men like Mark Driscoll, and such discussions as you see here on SI where gambling and drinking are openly approved. In moderation, of course.
  3. The continuing relationship between CEs and the Billy Graham organization itself. The most conservative CE of them all, John MacArthur, has spoken in recent years at Graham’s training center, the Cove, and has published articles in Graham’s Decision magazine. The connections between Southern Seminary and the Graham organization are well known. Mark Dever is chairman of the board at Southern.
  4. The widespread use of worldly music undermining the gospel message that is preached. Almost all the CE ministries that are usually touted here are affected by this.
    You might not find these things problematic. Regardless, these things are huge stumbling blocks for me and preclude ministry cooperation with these men. They are not trivial differences.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

[RPittman]

Also, there is the language element. Sometime ago, I was shocked after hearing a wonderfully prayed prayer by a young woman to hear an explicit discussion of sex and vulgar language coming from her mouth. They talk of God, Christ, love, grace, obedience, etc. and discuss the most foul things a short while later. The F-word and S-word along with a host of other vulgarities and profanities are no strangers to the lips of many professing CE young folks.

My point is simple. I am saying there appears to be a disconnect between belief and behavior in CE circles. IMHO, this may exist because of an over-reaction to what they view as legalism. Their view of tolerance, acceptance, diversity, etc. contributes. They say as long as you believe that behavior is not important. Ultimately it’s a personal separation issue, which follows having denied the corporate kind, from worldliness.
Hi Roland,

F-words i think, agreed by all, is vulgar and often used by the vocabulary challenged. the S-words sound sort of vulgar to me too. i was surprised though when looking at Phil. 3:8, Paul seems to employ it.

the bolded part of your post had me scratching my head a bit also. worldliness, for the most part, is a heart problem for the Christian: it’s the “lust of the flesh”, “the lust of the eyes”, and the “pride of life”. so the corporate separation would be: don’t go to movies, don’t drink, don’t wear short shorts?

Give to the wise and they will be wiser. Instruct the righteous and they will increase their learning. Proverbs 9:9

Roland, I’ve never heard any CE use that kind of language.

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Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

The F-word and S-word along with a host of other vulgarities and profanities are no strangers to the lips of many professing CE young folks.
Sweeping generalizations like this aren’t helpful to the discussion.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

[RPittman] Although there are many other areas, I will choose only to address two—modesty and language—that are easily observed. Although my comments are NOT applicable to every young person on the CE (I am not stereotyping) I have observed enough to say that these behaviors are pervasive.

As to modesty, the concept is foreign to many. For young women, modesty is shown by how they handle their bodies as well as how they dress. For many CE young women, they seem think nothing of displaying their bodies. Just in case someone is getting the wrong idea, I am not defining modesty as wearing a dress or skirt to the knee. These CE women wear clothing that leaves little to the imagination. This includes sheer tops, low-cut tops, short-shorts, etc. Also, they show little concern in changing outer garments when males are around. How they sit or flout their bodies is often sensuous or seductive. I could be more graphic in my descriptions but I don’t want to offend the sensibilities of the readers on SI. Although I am no prude, I have had to avert my eyes to avoid seeing more than I ought.

Also, there is the language element. Sometime ago, I was shocked after hearing a wonderfully prayed prayer by a young woman to hear an explicit discussion of sex and vulgar language coming from her mouth. They talk of God, Christ, love, grace, obedience, etc. and discuss the most foul things a short while later. The F-word and S-word along with a host of other vulgarities and profanities are no strangers to the lips of many professing CE young folks.
RPittman,

The problems that you noted are hardly confined to CE’s. If you don’t believe me, check the Facebook pages of the kids in Fundy churches or even check the pictures that the kids take of Fundy camps and church activities.

My guess is that the kids / adults that practice what you talk about above claim to be Christian, but really demonstrate little, if any, relationship to Jesus. Otherwise, they’d know better.

"Our task today is to tell people — who no longer know what sin is...no longer see themselves as sinners, and no longer have room for these categories — that Christ died for sins of which they do not think they’re guilty." - David Wells