Assuming that believers are to be serving in some capacity, could it often be constructive to graciously, appropriately, ask others what their ministry is? I refer to laity even senior saints. I have in mind those friendly, relaxed table talks, those getting acquainted, those personal conversations.
sure, but you might get better answers easier if you avoid the jargon of the word "ministry". just ask how they're involved in their church; if there's anything they do to help; how they like to help the people they know… i'm sure a lot of other normal questions can be thought up. but i think for a lot of people, the word "ministry" is going to conjure up images of pastors and full-time leaders.
I would not ask "what is your ministry", such a question presumes everyone shares your view of ministry and that everyone should be in a place where they understand this biblical topic to the point of not only having a good definition but understand and have matured to the point that they know their gifts and the need to actively used them. Not everyone is to that point such simply asking with presumption can come across rude and defeat the objective of having dialogue.
Yet I take your point Alex. I find that some believers, dining out with friends for example, do not thrive on any spiritual topics. Such conversational forays can be like baptizing cats. Sad.
They may indeed thrive on spiritual topics, they just may not share your specific views and definitions so still, I would not ask the question the way it was formed since it still would possess certain presumptions. It is best to investigate through conversation that observes boundaries of respect and discovery their own frame of reference so that you can engage in a dialogue. If you do not share the same views then questions that require the same views and definitions would be moot. But maybe you can have a dialogue with such persons on those differing views if they are interested. 
The word tells us to "know those who labor among us." The early church modeled for us the necessity of identifying gifts and gifting within the body of Christ. One reason a lot of people do not mature in their gifting is because it is not recognize, honored or nurtured by leadership. To bring the point home with more intensity I refer you to Heb 13:2, "be careful to entertain strangers for some have entertained messengers unawares." If you do a study or "hospitality" you will find every leader was given a charge to "be hospitable." Why? because they often carried timely messages. Failure to recognize them was also a failure in receiving the message. I have ministered internationally for 20 years. Many times I've been asked to address pastors. One thing I always tell them is this: there are only 4 types of people which come to your meetings. 1) sheep you are to tend, 2) someone else's sheep you need to direct back to their fold 3) a messenger and 4) a wolf. If there is not clarity of recognition it can, and does, cause serious problems.
If the question "What is you ministry?" is asked and the person doesn't understand that we are called to ministry it should be used as a "teaching" moment, or one of encouragement.
Yes. You said it well. I find that even social settings can be God given moments for even mutual edification, "teaching" moments as you put it. My wife and I also like to close out an evening with friends with a prayer circle. It adds a dimension.
Peace and joy
Don't you find that everyone has certain kinds of "calling" within the life of the Body, too? That is, not just "what do you do?" but "what has the Spirit made it evident to you and the Body is your role?" And let's not forget that one of the most basic is the calling to marry, and the calling to family; those who are faithfully fulfilling that calling within the life of the church, making of their marriage one member of the Body and rearing the members of their household to take their place as members of Christ, are not necessarily in search of any other calling, I should think.
Don't you find that everyone has certain kinds of "calling" within the life of the Body, too? That is, not just "what do you do?" but "what has the Spirit made it evident to you and the Body is your role?" And let's not forget that one of the most basic is the calling to marry, and the calling to family; those who are faithfully fulfilling that calling within the life of the church, making of their marriage one member of the Body and rearing the members of their household to take their place as members of Christ, are not necessarily in search of any other calling, I should think.
Do I hear you saying that if I am doing most any thing positive in human or family relationships that is an alternative to ID and engaging my particular spiritual gift?
Do you have a Bible reference for this "calling"? I know that all believers are to be active in the church not just those with a 'calling' to it. We all know nonbelievers who are 'called' to take care of their families. What is necessarily Christian about a calling to care for one's household?
If I may ask pgepps, what is your sp. gift? Do you know or just not exercising it? Or other? Peace and joy,
OK, well, I'm probably going to make you laugh when I admit that I'm single (until July!!!) and have no kids, so I really can't stand up to much personal pressure on this point.
I'm going to retreat behind my "not necessarily" first. I didn't have anything I'm "against" here, so was just trying to point out what (it seemed) might be overlooked. It seems to me that someone asking "how are you serving God?" of a couple who are together, faithful, and active (without necessarily taking on certain fixed, individual roles like "teacher" or "youth sponsor" or what-have-you)--and whose, let's say, two kids are being given a Christian upbringing, and effectively taught to be voluntarily active in the church as the church provides for them--well, if you ask that person, "what's your ministry?" then I don't think you should be surprised or dismayed if they say, "You mean, beyond all this?" Does that make sense? The intact and engaged family seems to be the core teaching and transmission mechanism for Christian faith and practice throughout the pastoral epistles, apart of course from the core /ekklesia/ functions which not everyone can lead at once.
(didn't catch the reference to ID. = individual discipleship?)
God has gifted me with verbal skills and a need to ask questions and formulate arguments for things, so I suppose I'm using it right now. And seeking how that better fits the Body life, too.
of a couple who are together, faithful, and active (without necessarily taking on certain fixed, individual roles like "teacher" or "youth sponsor" or what-have-you)--and whose, let's say, two kids are being given a Christian upbringing, and effectively taught to be voluntarily active in the church as the church provides for them--well, if you ask that person, "what's your ministry?" then I don't think you should be surprised or dismayed if they say, "You mean, beyond all this?" Does that make sense? The intact and engaged family seems to be the core teaching and transmission mechanism for Christian faith and practice throughout the pastoral epistles, apart of course from the core /ekklesia/ functions which not everyone can lead at once.
(didn't catch the reference to ID. = individual discipleship?)
God has gifted me with verbal skills and a need to ask questions and formulate arguments for things, so I suppose I'm using it right now. And seeking how that better fits the Body life, too. :-)
Hi, by "ID" I was just abbreviating the word "identify."
Questions:
1. Do I still hear you saying that if one is involved with family that this can be sufficient "ministry"?
If so, can you give me chapter and verses to support it? If all members felt this way there would be little if any functioning church to attend. Where would the musicians, clean up, Sunday school teachers, ushers, etc be?
2. In the gospels and Acts the disciples gave up everything to follow Jesus. Why were they not just at home with family?
3. Have you done a recent, in depth study on the specific spiritual gifts? (1 Cor 12, Rom 12, Eph 4).
A man that signs up to work for a company but will not report for work on Monday is not a real employee, is he? He may talk the talk but he is of no practical use. A soldier who will not report to his assigned unit at Ft. Bragg is AWOL. True? Many name the name of Jesus yet will not report in for work at any local Christian "army unit," the local church. They too are AWOL, backslidden, (with a few exceptions).
Don't be a church goer; be a church worker.
4. Will not mature Christian fathers/husbands be involving their family in the activities of the church? - witnessing, cooking, teaching classes, visitation of the sick, maintenance, etc?
Your implied answer to question 4 is my view.
I was suggesting that parents who are actively involving themselves and their families in the life of the Body are quite right to give that as the title of their "ministry." My father is a pastor, but it is overwhelmingly more powerful for me to recall sweeping the floors with him some Saturday afternoons, or the fun and joy of voluntarily (my sister and I used to race to do it) straightening the hymnals and dust-mopping the pews, than to attempt to reconstruct the various teaching methods he employed over the years. His involving me, as his child, directly in the work of the church did more than his title "pastor" to attach me to the life of the Body.
Far from suggesting that families should become autonomous, I am suggesting that families should not lose sight of being *together* in their Body-life. So you don't have individuals with roles at tension (Mom and teacher, Dad and deacon, etc.) but couples whose one-flesh union makes them one member (We are part of X church) whose primary ministry is their marriage, their conjoined membership in the Body (which is an active participation--consider hospitality as just one thing couples do better), so that all other roles must be subsidiary to and harmonious with that primary ministry. Similarly, involving their children, moving them from members of the family toward becoming distinct members of Christ, is their next greatest ministry (after their marriage). (imagine quotes around "ministry")
As for the gifts, these are principally represented as distributed among the church, and the notion that every one has exactly one is flawed exegesis that leads to efforts to pigeonhole people based on whoever's personality test, er, spiritual gift test, er, whatever is currently most popular.
And if you have roles that the married people who are successfully serving God in their marriages and, as married, in the church--and serving God by bringing up their children to become members of Christ--cannot get to, may I suggest you look around at all those single people who are being ignored because they don't fit in the "youth group" and they aren't part of the pastoral circle (as unmarried) and they aren't part of the kaffeesklach of empty-nesters who really run the practical affairs of most congregationally-governed churches?
pgepps,
That's our ministry dynamic. We are involved in the church as a family. My dh and I do have the title of "Sunday School Admin", but I personally am not enamored of titled offices as being the primary way to define ministry. For example, many families are involved in their communities as good neighbors and witnesses, and just because it isn't a church organized Visitation program doesn't make it not 'ministry'.
I think most of the time when you are getting to know someone and you ask them where they go to church, you usually get an answer that includes how they are involved at their church. At least in my experience I've never had to go fishing on purpose to find out.
Might we find some consensus around these?:
1. we all should be involved in some ministry for Jesus?
2. what we call it is secondary
3. Ball players, soldiers and employees that will not show up for work are not
faithful - cannot be counted on, slackers. This goes for God's servants too.
4. Find at least one thing and do it well for Jesus.
5. It has been (rightly?) said that 80 percent of church work is done by 20 percent of the people. James was written to challenge talkers to become walkers. Many "say" they have faith but have little fruit.
I don't have a problem with this, though (5) seems to contain several different points, not all equally clear.
What does that mean? I have often heard the phrase "You should be at church every time the doors are open!" but where does that leave the family? There is always something going on in many churches- meetings, Bible studies, conferences, visitation... and many activities are age segregated so that families are not together. So #3 and #5 aren't clear about what they entail IMO. And I don't think that family should take a back seat to church activities.
Basically, I think each person and family should serve to their own abilities and gifts. Many people do small supportive things 'behind the scenes' that others don't recognize or even know about. I certainly hope no one treats them like they are slackers.
I do think everyone should be engaged with the life of the Body as fully as possible; I do think that family is an institution coordinate with the Church, though, and so it is the duty of both family *and* church to ensure that these institutions enrich one another, rather than competing with one another.
And it's really dangerous to start making Christianity into performance art--or, worse, an exhibition sport.
Chris, I used the words "graciously and appropriately" but evidently that did not paint the barn. The Word calls us "ministers." We are to all have a "ministry." Granted it will be a new thought for some but I see that as hopefully adding an element of importance and urgency. But certainly the wording would vary with the person. True.
Should believers be excited about something in the Lord? Does the Word not urge us to stir up others to good works? (2 Prt 3.1). Should we not give them the benefit of the doubt by inquiring?
Yet I take your point Alex. I find that some believers, dining out with friends for example, do not thrive on any spiritual topics. Such conversational forays can be like baptizing cats. Sad.