A friend of mine is beginning to look at colleges for his daughter. So far he's looked at BJU and Master's College [CA], but he was asking me if there were others I'd recommend. He also wanted to know about Liberty and poss. Word of Life. Does anyone have any other suggestions or info about the last two schools?
The potential student is NOT heading for F/T Ministry...they're thinking about Math or Accounting.
I am partial to my alma mater (BJU), but what about Maranatha (www.mbbc.edu), Northland (www.nbbc.edu) or Clearwater (www.clearwater.edu --my brother is registrar here)?
To maybe make it easier to answer, can you tell us what they plan on doing after they graduate. It really should play a larger part in where they go to school.
I have a marketing degree from BJU, so I've taken some accounting classes at the school. I had a wonderful experience there. The accounting program specifically is highly respected in the Greenville community. My husband has a degree in computer science/math from BJU and has had great success in his career. Two years ago he was accepted at Wake Forest for law school. His undergrad from BJU was well received by the admissions staff. These observations are based soley on our ability to get jobs and excel in our chosen fields. Better than these advantages is the focus on spiritual growth.
As far as the other schools, I've had friends who went to Liberty and had a very positive experience.
I will also plug Maranatha since my in-laws work there, however I do not know much about their business program.
Good luck to your friend's daughter!
WOLBI (Word of Life Bible Institute) offers a one and two year program, last I knew, and will not offer any particular educational asset for Math or Accounting. It is fairly small and remote if you are talking NY- which might appeal to some and not to others. I think they might have a Florida campus as well. They would end up somewhere on the conservative side of Evangelicalism, though not necessarily the Calvinist flavor that is in vogue at the moment. When one of my good friends attended there in the 1990s, they used to have men like Charles Ryrie and Wendell Calder teach. I'm not sure who they're bringing in these days.
LU is going to offer much broader educational opportunities as an accredited liberal arts institution. I imagine they are going to be much broader in the overall evangelical spectrum as well than would BJU (one of the other schools you mentioned they are looking at), in partnerships, practices, and overall culture of the institution. I would imagine some would be better equipped to handle that atmosphere than others. Some of the level of caution might depend on how grounded the student was. I wouldn't promote the institution, but I don't think the institution is devoid of value for everyone.
Clearwater gets another recommendation from me, FWIW. I think Dick Stratton has the school pointed in a good direction, and there are some positive perks as far as location and such, too.
Clerawater Christian College appears to have a balanced approach to separation and doctrine and is fully regionally accredited. It would be my number one recommendation.
BJU and some other fundamentalist colleges and universities are accredited by the Transnational association. This is a recognized accrediting agency by the Department of health and education. However, secular institutions and employers are not familiar with this accrediting group and do not consider these institutions as accredited. If you wish to go into a field other than one related to Christian ministry I would only attend regionally accredited schools. Also, in spite of what some graduates would have you believe,, unaccredited Christian schools give you a substantially inferior education. Some have too many of their own graduates teaching at their schools and have long term inherent weakness in breadth of exposure in various disciplines.
I do not recommend The Masters College which is just down the freeway 10 miles from me. Too many problems.
Greg, I had totally forgotten about Clearwater Christian. I'll make sure to tell my friend about it tomorrow night at the men's group.
Nobody listens to me... (see post 1) 
Seriously, I'll direct my brother to this thread...it will encourage him!
I agree with Bob T. If this girl is considering entering the work force, I would say go to a state school. I know of all the anecdotal evidence about going to Christian school and making it in the work force, for I am one of those statistics. But I think the girl will have a much easier time entering the work force with a degree from a state school.
The chances are she will get a much fuller education (minus the Bible, but isn't that what church is for). I know Northland wasn't really known for their science program, but I remember looking at their science classes and thinking, I took their highest science class as a Junior in HS. Even their math was only a class or two higher than what I took in HS, and I was about average in math in HS. Many of my friends were taking math classes from the CC as they had finished all the math available at HS. (And my HS offered classes beyond Calculus)
Those are my thoughts.
Jay --- BJU's accounting program is excellent. They have a great reputation with the Big Four in their region in the south. Great faculty with terminal degrees and lots of practical experience in firms and corporations. Good recruiting program. High pass rate on the CPA exam. With all due respect to the 2 or 3 other fundamental/conservative universities that have accounting majors, none of them even come close to BJU.
My son graduated with the accounting degree from BJU. I had a lot of interaction with his faculty. I was very surprised by the amount and difficulty of the work he had to do. Some of his classes rivaled my masters level accounting classes. Also, BJU has a great internship progam (during the junior year) for the accounting majors, so accounting majors graduate with at least one semester of practical experience under their belts (many of them also intern at firms during the summers). My son interacted with accounting majors from the other big state schools in the south (Clemsen, U of SC, etc.) during his internship and at recruiting events, and their programs weren't nearly as comprehensive or as demanding as BJU's program.
One word of warning: Accounting is one of the most difficult majors at BJU (along with nursing). Your friend's daughter will have to be very committed and disciplined. Lots of work, difficult tests, very demanding academics.
FWIW, the idea that programs like BJU's and Clearwater's are well received in the workplace is more than anecdotal. It's what graduates consistently report. I wish I had a systematic study to point to, but it has to mean something that I've heard countless first hand testimonials like these and never once heard a "they wouldn't hire me because my degree wasn't from a state school."
Given the other advantages of a Christian education, I think it's a no-brainer.
Now if you want to be a professional scholar, the decision is not so easy because academia can be pretty snobby. But my experience has been that employers are much more pragmatic. In my own case, I got into a full time job in customer service on a Bible Ed. degree from BJU... and then eventually a full time IT support position... and at that time had a BA in Bible Ed. and M.Div.
The schooling is just not necessarily what they're looking at, though it mattered to them alot that I had finished college somewhere.
But for legal and financial work I'll concede that the school matters more. I just don't believe it matters to point of even beginning to cancel out the advantages of a good Christian education.
In recent years there have been a few diploma mill scandals related to some folks in government positions. As a result, most now require that in your application you list your education - but only education from institutions accredited by certain DOE-approved accrediting groups. I was applying for a job and could not find BJU's accrediting body on the approved list and so was able only to include my graduate education. So, it seems that my undergrad education could not be used to meet job criteria even though BJU is obviously not a diploma mill.
So, for those who think they may be interested in federal government work, it may be worth looking at these requirements as you choose a school. Particularly if you do not intend to earn an advanced degree from an institution that would meet these accrediting requirements.
I think LIberty has average mathematics and accounting departments; I don't know much about them, although I knew a few accounting and math graduates, and they seemed to have done well. From what I can tell about accounting, the degree is kind of a non-issue: what matters is whether you can and with what scores you can pass the CPA.
Overall, though, Liberty is a good school for a Christian; it's conservative but it has many the advantages of big schools, including accreditation, and it's academic reputation is moving up. One of my teachers there (Emily Heady), who is now in charge of all of the writing assessment at LU and just finished compiling the most recent report based on a university wide assessment, told me when I was a Freshman that my degree from LU would be worth more when I graduated than it would have been if I got it in 2005, and she was right, and that trend will only increase. According to Jerry Falwell, Jr., the school's number one priority right now is increasing academic quality.
I'm happy to recommend LU to people who aren't intent on academic careers; if they are, I would recommend secular schools or one of the more academically respected Christians schools (Wheaton, Calvin, etc.), even though Liberty does well in some areas (e.g. pre-law, history, their philosophy program is getiing better, etc.). There are good faculty there, who care about academics and about Christianity, and it's a more academically mainstream environment than many if not all of the Fundamentalist schools (two of my siblings went to PCC, and we received very different kinds of educations).
Aaron, fwiw, I am not saying a person from BJ or any other similar Christian school cannot make it into the work force. Nor am I saying they cannot make it into big companies and progress through the corporate ladder. All I am saying is, I believe it is easier to enter the work force with a degree from a state school over BJ or other Christian school. I understand there are those pockets at Christian schools where it may be easier, like BJU's accounting program. But I would say for most secular vocations it is easier at a state school. Again, not that it is impossible, just easier.
Jack makes a great point. It seems like it would be difficult to get a government job with a non credited degree. But I know first hand that Aaron is correct. I am a BJU grad with a degree in Bible. Before I was in ministry, I worked in a few different industries. I was a sales professional at major firm selling business to business. I had no problem in any of my interviews. My degree was never questioned. There was at least one other BJ grad on my sales team. Also there was a very sucessful rep who was pretty high up with a Business degree from BJ. The one who was higher up was at BJ with me, but I had no idea he worked there until I got there and we had not seen each other since college. This is one example of the many. The degree has never been a problem.
I am sure there are problems out there. But I think some are overstating them.
I graduated from BJU with a degree in Youth Ministries (my minor was English with an *almost* minor in Spanish). Upon graduation, I moved to Clemson to train with Real Life Ministries (a college campus ministry)--before they took a direction I could not take. Anyway, I sought employment on the campus, and was hired to be secretary for the Dean Emeritus in the College of Architecture, and book keeper for the Clemson Architectural Foundation. Very intimidating, and much more high profile than I anticipated. I was thinking, like, something in the bookstore, ya know? 
I had one course in book keeping in High School, and it was not my "bag"--yet here I was making daily deposits sometimes in excess of $80,000. I actually called their auditor and told him I had no clue what I was doing...could he help me? Turns out I was hired because of excellent secretarial skills and the fact that I was a BJU grad. 
Apparently the previous book keeper had their finger in the pie, and they wanted someone honest. Surely, a graduate from a Christian University would fit that bill, right?
Life is interesting. I muddled through, learned a lot--even a little Italian, and by God's grace made it through with everything balanced and accounted for until God called me back to BJU. "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps." (Prov 16:9)
ps All that exposure to opera during my undergrad years came in handy there as well...one of the profs was an opera oficianado, and he was duly impressed that someone from a school that believes in the Bible could also have some artistic prowess. We exchanged notes on "Faust", which led to some spiritual discussion. God is great.
When a person knows the vocation they wish to pursue and are looking for a good college, it is important to talk to those already in that field for recommendations. I found this out while looking into HVAC training for my firstborn. We found out that a local school that seemed really popular and was inexpensive was NOT respected by local HVAC companies because of the lack of quality in their graduates. They all recommended a school we hadn't considered at all because we didn't even know they had a good HVAC training program.
The additional plus to this is that one develops helpful contacts in the field, which can be a real leg up when one is ready to enter the workforce. One may even be able to arrange for apprenticeships, references...
Folks, the question I would ask is how spiritually mature is the individual contemplating college. If he or she has had Bible daily for 18 years and is well-grounded in the faith and is winning souls to Christ and has a heart for ministry while looking to get education for a vocation why not choose a secular college/university for the purpose of being a witness and winning souls to Christ in his or her four years of college attendance. Skip the Christian school because most there are saved and extension ministry is kind of artificial.
Discipleship can be continued through a solid local church campus ministry. I will set one up if you tell me the school he or she wishes to attend. This may involve church planting.
Only for the mature and those interested in a faith stretching college experience.
Derek Jung
Able and willing.
If the prospective student is a baby believer or average individual seeking training for ministry send them to bju or pcc or maranatha for spoon feeding for another 4-8 years.
Derek Jung
If the prospective student is a baby believer or average individual seeking training for ministry send them to bju or pcc or maranatha for spoon feeding for another 4-8 years. Derek Jung
My own experience: came to Christ at age 7 after seven years of being taught the gospel (yes, it started at birth). After ten more years of solid exposition at church supplemented by Bible courses at school and chapel speakers there, went to four years at BJU.
Got way, way more than spoon feeding there.
Got ministry experience in a variety of settings, extracurricular experiences I still lean on regularly. Got a network of likeminded peers. Most importantly, got all the academic stuff a college is for but packaged in a worldview that held the Scriptures as supreme and integrated all other subjects in their proper place.
After 13 years in a Christian school, 4 years at PCC, and another 3 years in a Souther Baptist Seminary, I was 24 when I left the comforts of being surrounded by a Christian bubble. I entered into one of the most depraved, decadent, wicked, and immoral environments--the United States Marine Corps (I am sure Ben Howard and others can attest to the USMC and its environment). The farther I go in this environment, the more thankful I become for the path down which God has lead me. Every day I become more and more thankful for my parents rules. I look back more and more fondly and the innocence and purity of campuses like PCC (I have also been to many other Christian college campuses and have witnessed the "breath of fresh air" that is there as well). I was challenged at PCC, not spoon fed. As a Chaplain in CA, I had ensembles from BJU, Northland, PCC, International Baptist College, West Coast, and Ironwood Institute of Ministry come sing in the Chapel. Those students had not been spoon fed. Rather, they were such a blessing to the retirees, active duty Marines and Sailors. The ministry that they had was priceless. I believe because they demonstrated the stark contrast to the military environment. I would not exchange the ministry I have as a Chaplain to Marines and Sailors for anything in the world. Neither would I change how I got to this point. I am not saying I am the exception or the rule, but I would encourage any prospective college student to simply pray, submit their will to the Lord, and allow God to give them the desires of their heart (Psalm 37:4). After all, if they walk in the Spirit, they will not fulfill the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16). If that desire is to a secular college, then they must be sure to be well-grounded in the truth. If that desire is to a Christian college, then they must be sure to be well-grounded in the truth.
I read testimonies such as Aaron Blumer's, Diane Heeney's, and and I am led to believe that those who go to Christian colleges are more often in line with his than not. The Christian college product is still a quality product. Yet, my wife went to a secular school and I marvel at her spiritual fitness. It excels mine. There are numerous examples of secular school graduates who are serving the Lord faithfully. God can/will use any person who is surrendered. For what it is worth: BJU, PCC, TTU, Northland, and Maranatha grads make great officers in the military. As do other Christian college graduates. I can give you many examples of both line and staff officers (Army, Navy, USMC, and Air Force) who are well respected by their peers. Somehow, those schools prepare men and women very well for the military.
I think going to a local college can be a great option if the local church is doing the discipleship the way it should, but in all fairness how many churches actually provide the kind of in depth training you can get in a Christian college. I do know of a few who do. I do differentiate between a Bible College and Christian College and would encourage a well-rounded Christian college over a Bible College, and if I had to do it over again, I would not get an undergraduate degree in Bible, but in Business or teaching or something. I have come to believe that anyone going into ministry should absolutely do everything possible to go to seminary, because that is where the basic pastoral degree is offered; and I know this thread is not on that.
As far as Tavis brought up about the military, I actually joined the Marine Corps right out of high school, and loved, still do love, the Marine Corps as well as kept a Christian testimony while serving 11 years as a Marine, before becoming a Chaplain. Although some parts of military life are as Tavis describes, I didn't need a Christian college to live for Christ. Any job, and I had several, outside the Christian bubble you go into will test your faith somehow; and while I went to BJU for college, I am fairly sure that I could have attended a secular college and had a good testimony as well as opportunities for ministry. The only reason I am a Chaplain today is because I had so many opportunities to minister in the Marine Corps as a Marine that I never had serving on a pastoral staff.
As for actual colleges to recommend, I like Liberty and North Greenville University, and if you definitely want to stay in a fundamentalist orbit, then Clearwater Christian College or BJU. Word of Life is really more for those preparing for ministry and wanting a Bible degree. As I already said, I think local college can be a good thing; and what could be better than having a college student who is committed to Christ and the local church stay in the community and serve in the church.
PS - just noticed that the topic of accreditation was brought up. after my wife and I both dealing with the accreditation problem, I 100% believe that unless you are getting a degree in Bible, you should go to a regionally accredited college (like Liberty, NGU, and Clearwater) In all fairness, it was not an insurmountable problem to deal with while living on the East Coast; because BJU has a fantastic testimony of high educational quality among many businesses, including the military. I have spoken to folks here on the West Coast who have had a much more difficult time because of a BJU degree.
went to four years at BJU.
Got way, way more than spoon feeding there.
Got ministry experience in a variety of settings, extracurricular experiences I still lean on regularly. Got a network of likeminded peers Most importantly, got all the academic stuff a college is for but packaged in a worldview that held the Scriptures as supreme and integrated all other subjects in their proper place.
Well, the person you are quoting obviously has never been a student at BJU.
The "network of likeminded peers" has been a wonderful source of encouragement through the years.
(I don't know how to bold a quote. How do you do that, BTW with this newer version of SI?)
Greg, I had totally forgotten about Clearwater Christian. I'll make sure to tell my friend about it tomorrow night at the men's group.
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
-Eph. 4:29-32, ESV