God's Word/attribute of timeliness

Fri, 06/19/2009 - 12:47pm

#1 permalink

Alex Guggenheim

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1096

Mark, I am interested in you

Mark,

I am interested in you expanding your thoughts here. That is to say, can you or will you answer the questions you asked yourself? Before responding it would help me, at least, to read a larger frame of your mindset on the matter.

__________________

My blog:

http://thepedestrianchristian.blogspot.com/

Fri, 06/19/2009 - 10:16pm

#2 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Do my answers evidence/deny sharp iron?

Alex Guggenheim wrote:

Mark,

can you or will you answer the questions you asked yourself?

1-Was God's attribute of love then or ever denied by Scripture? Not that I expect nor know of is God's attribute of love ever denied by Scripture.

2-Are any of God's attributes ever denied by an accurate Bible? Not that I expect nor know of are any of God's attribute ever denied by an accurate Bible.

3-... Does God always have the attribute of timeliness? I expect that God always does have the attribute of timeliness and that is impossible to show otherwise.

4-If we are good stewards, how often is our iron sharp if we declare a Bible to be God's Word if it denies God's attribute of timeliness? To the God whom always has the attribute of timeliness, I propose that iron is never sharp if it denies God's attribute of timeliness, love, or when any of God's attributes are denied.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sat, 06/20/2009 - 1:31pm

#3 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

Perhaps you could be a little

Perhaps you could be a little more clear about what you are talking about here.

Sat, 06/20/2009 - 6:18pm

#4 permalink

Stephen Schwenke

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 91

Larry wrote: Perhaps you

Larry wrote:

Perhaps you could be a little more clear about what you are talking about here.

Hear, Hear!!!
I have never before heard that one of God's attributes was timeliness. Is there a Scripture on that???

__________________

Pastor Steve Schwenke
Liberty Baptist Church
Amarillo, TX

Sat, 06/20/2009 - 9:40pm

#5 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Stephen Schwenke

Stephen Schwenke wrote:

Larry wrote:

Perhaps you could be a little more clear about what you are talking about here.

Hear, Hear!!!
I have never before heard that one of God's attributes was timeliness. Is there a Scripture on that???

Does Scripture say that God told Adam not to eat from a certain tree with timely words? Does Scripture say that God gave the 10 commandments with timely words? Does Scripture say that Jesus used timely words when he gave the great commission? Neither does Scripture say that God used untimely words in those situations.

If we are good stewards, how often is our iron sharp if we declare a Bible to be God's Word if it denies God's attribute of timeliness?

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sat, 06/20/2009 - 9:42pm

#6 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

What do you mean by "timely"?

What do you mean by "timely"? What is an attribute of timeliness?

It is still not clear what you are asking.

Sun, 06/21/2009 - 8:17am

#7 permalink

Daniel

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 287

I agree with larry. I have

I agree with larry. I have never heard this before, and probably most have not either. So please define what you mean.

Sun, 06/21/2009 - 11:34am

#8 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Larry wrote: What do you mean

Larry wrote:

What do you mean by "timely"? What is an attribute of timeliness?

It is still not clear what you are asking.

Perhaps wanting to sound spiritual, Jesus may have been the untimely Shakespeare of his day commanding "Go ye therefore ..." God gives us the wisdom to speak and post, with timely words, words common to today. Although incorrect, the witness of Jesus behaving untimely, not having the attibute of timeliness, is what seems to be clear.

While most may have "have never heard this before", God always having an attribute of timeliness, it is impossible to provide Scripture of God being untimely, choosing to use words for those that have died centuries ago before sounding timely for today's lost.

Shall are iron be sharp or shalt it 's words soundeth silly for talking to our friends?

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sun, 06/21/2009 - 12:37pm

#9 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

Again, I have to ask, what do

Again, I have to ask, what do you mean by "timely"? Please clearly define your terms so we might understand what you are saying. And please show how "timeliness" (whatever that means) is an attribute of God. I have never seen that listed anywhere as an attribute.

But it is hard to evaluate your point without knowing what it is.

Sun, 06/21/2009 - 5:07pm

#10 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Larry wrote: Again, I have to

Larry wrote:

Again, I have to ask, what do you mean by "timely"?

Your question is asked with timely words. We live in the 21st century and you used words common to the 21st century.

You could have been untimely and asked "What doth thou meaneth by being timely?"

The timely words spoken to Abraham would have been untimely if spoken to the disciples. Similarly, words which are timely today would also be untimely for the disciples.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sun, 06/21/2009 - 5:51pm

#11 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

So you mean that he speaks in

So you mean that he speaks in the common language of the day. That's not really an attribute of God.

Mon, 06/22/2009 - 8:18pm

#12 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Larry wrote: So you mean that

Larry wrote:

So you mean that he speaks in the common language of the day. That's not really an attribute of God.

For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son ... Love is not really an attribute of God then, I guess.

God so loves the world that told Adam not to eat of the fruit of a certain tree in the common language of the day.

God so loves the world that told Noah to build an ark in the common language of the day.

God so loves the world that Jesus gave the great commission in the common language of the day.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Mon, 06/22/2009 - 9:08pm

#13 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

I think you may be

I think you may be misunderstanding what an attribute is. An attribute is an inherent characteristic without which God wouldn't be God. If God ceased to be love, he wouldn't be God. If he ceased to be speak intelligibly to people in a given point of time (which he has), he would still be God.

Tue, 06/23/2009 - 9:38am

#14 permalink

LCarpenter

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 8

Definitions

Mark:

I would be interested to hear the definition of your use of the word "timely" and "timeliness". You gave an example, but not a definition.

__________________

-LGC

Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:15am

#15 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

LCarpenter wrote: Mark: I

LCarpenter wrote:

Mark:

I would be interested to hear the definition of your use of the word "timely" and "timeliness". You gave an example, but not a definition.

Surfing the 'net, timely/dictionary, I find "occurring at a suitable time; seasonable; opportune; well-timed: a timely warning." I expect timeliness to just be that which is timely.

17th century words were timely for the 17th century. If you're a salesman, how timely would your clients find you if your words were of the 17th century? Would the words be occurring at a suitable time; seasonable; opportune; well-timed? What if you're a secretary. You boss asks you to send a memo to the staff. How long will you have a job if the words that you send are not the timely 21st century words which he/she used, but words from the 17th century?

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:22am

#16 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Larry wrote: I think you may

Larry wrote:

I think you may be misunderstanding what an attribute is. An attribute is an inherent characteristic without which God wouldn't be God. If God ceased to be love, he wouldn't be God. If he ceased to be speak intelligibly to people in a given point of time (which he has), he would still be God.

Did Jesus go around speaking like the dead from centuries ago and want us to follow his example, or wouldn't this be Jesus nor how his stewards should keep their iron sharp?

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Tue, 06/23/2009 - 10:45am

#17 permalink

Daniel

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 287

Mark, just out of curiosity,

Mark, just out of curiosity, are you somehow trying to prove we should use modern translations?

Tue, 06/23/2009 - 11:06am

#18 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

Quote: Did Jesus go around

Quote:

Did Jesus go around speaking like the dead from centuries ago and want us to follow his example, or wouldn't this be Jesus nor how his stewards should keep their iron sharp?

No, but who's arguing that? My point is that what you are describing is not an attribute. I think your point, so far as I understand it, is correct. Calling it an "attribute" is not.

Sat, 06/27/2009 - 2:21pm

#19 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

suppose you're correct

What makes something an attribute of God? Since God is always love, I was thinking of love being an attribute of God. Always being interested in bringing good news to those living, I am also calling timeliness to be an attribute of God.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sat, 06/27/2009 - 2:41pm

#20 permalink

Larry

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 1150

Quote: What makes something

Quote:

What makes something an attribute of God?

The attributes of God are those distinguishing characteristics of the divine nature which are inseparable from the idea of God and which constitute the basis and ground for his various manifestations to his creatures.
(Augustus Hopkins Strong, Systematic Theology, 244.)

To the divine essence, which in itself is infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, belong certain perfections revealed to us in the constitution of our nature and in the word of God. These divine perfections are called attributes as essential to the nature of a divine Being, and necessarily involved in our idea of God.
(Charles Hodge, Systematic Theology, 1:368.)

Essentially an attribute is characteristic without which God would cease to be God. We might ask "If God wasn't X, would he still be God?" If the answer is, "No," then it is an attribute (if we have answered it properly). For instance, love is an attribute. God would not be God without love. Anger is not an attribute. God would still be God without anger.

Sat, 06/27/2009 - 3:06pm

#21 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Larry wrote:Essentially an

Larry wrote:

Essentially an attribute is characteristic without which God would cease to be God... For instance, love is an attribute. God would not be God without love. Anger is not an attribute. God would still be God without anger.

Is God ever God without being, more interested in the living than for those that have died years ago, timely? When and how is God ever untimely that timeliness is disqualified from being an attribute of God?

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sat, 06/27/2009 - 8:11pm

#22 permalink

Greg Long

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 518

Nonsensical

I'm sorry, Mark, but this just isn't making any sense. I've never in any of my theological education or reading heard of God's "timeliness". I don't even think you're using the word in an appropriate way. It seems that you are using it in the sense of "relevant" or perhaps "communicating in a way that people are able to understand". Is that correct?

"Timeliness" makes me think of God always being on time. Well, I guess God always does do things at just the right time...

__________________

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Sat, 06/27/2009 - 8:29pm

#23 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Greg Long wrote: "Timeliness"

Greg Long wrote:

"Timeliness" makes me think of God always being on time. Well, I guess God always does do things at just the right time...

Sounds good.

Presenting good news in the 21st century, untimely words of the 18th century would deny the attribute of timeliness. God's even wiser than we are!

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Sun, 06/28/2009 - 9:23pm

#24 permalink

Daniel

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 287

Mark, why would God speaking

Mark, why would God speaking 18th century English make Him any less God?

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 3:26am

#25 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Daniel wrote:Mark, why would

Daniel wrote:

Mark, why would God speaking 18th century English make Him any less God?

If it were the 18th century, it would be the truth that God's words were timely for the 18th century. We wouldn't speak 18th century today. It is a lie that today God would, and wants a church to be so foolish.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 7:40am

#26 permalink

Daniel

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 287

But how is it a lie? Is he

But how is it a lie? Is he speaking a lie? Is He deceiving? I fail, and I think everyone else does also, to see how God speaking 18 century English today is a lie or even foolish. You have only stated speaking a different centuries language is a lie. So if God speaks 18 century English today, it is a lie. But you have not proven how speaking a different centuries language is a lie. It may be the case, but I highly doubt it.

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 8:09am

#27 permalink

Brian Jo

Offline

Joined: Sat, Jun 6 2009

Posts: 54

I think I agree

Mark, I think I agree with your point, which is that we should use modern language and modern translations, but, I disagree that God is bound by His nature to do so.
After the fall of man, he was not required to communicate with man at all. He could have left us alone and never sought us and still have been just as much God as He is today. He chose to communicate with us out of his own pleasure, but He was not obligated to do so.

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 1:34pm

#28 permalink

Pastor Harold

Offline

Joined: Tue, Jun 2 2009

Posts: 129

Look at history

How many times was the Hebrew Old Testament "revised" during the 400 years between Malachi and Christ?
Why did God allow mankind to "over ride His timeliness" by having only Greek and Latin versions for 1400-1500 years?
Why didn't God "update" the Ten Commandments before Christ? That text was 1400 and some odd years old.
God has never been bound by our human standards. These text are spiritually discerned and still as sharp today as they were then.

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 5:30pm

#29 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Daniel wrote:But how is it a

Daniel wrote:

But how is it a lie?

What did I say is a lie?

Quote:

It is a lie that today God would, and wants a church, to be so foolish.

If you don't see how God speaking 18 century English today is foolish, why aren't the majority your telephone conversations with 18 century English? Why aren't the majority of children raised today to prefer speak with 18 century English? Why don't doctoral candidates hand in the majority of their papers to their professors with 18 century English? Why don't the majority of salesmen promote their wares to their customers with 18 century English? ...

Brian Jo wrote:

Mark, I think I agree with your point, which is that we should use modern language and modern translations, but, I disagree that God is bound by His nature to do so.
After the fall of man, he was not required to communicate with man at all. He could have left us alone and never sought us and still have been just as much God as He is today. He chose to communicate with us out of his own pleasure, but He was not obligated to do so.

God is not obligated to love humanity, but is as much bound by His nature of love to love as God is by bound His nature of timeliness to always be timely.

Pastor Harold wrote:

How many times was the Hebrew Old Testament "revised" during the 400 years between Malachi and Christ? Why did God allow mankind to "over ride His timeliness" by having only Greek and Latin versions for 1400-1500 years?
Why didn't God "update" the Ten Commandments before Christ? That text was 1400 and some odd years old.
God has never been bound by our human standards. These text are spiritually discerned and still as sharp today as they were then.

Why did a pastor from my church just dedicate a Bible just recently put into words for the area of New Guinea where he was once a missionary? Never bound by human standards, the timely good news formerly presented is presented timely by good stewards today.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Mon, 06/29/2009 - 10:35pm

#30 permalink

Brian Jo

Offline

Joined: Sat, Jun 6 2009

Posts: 54

Mark, it's hard to know what

Mark, it's hard to know what to say. Rather than interact with us here, you seem to just be set on talking about timeliness (whatever that means). There are many people on here that use modern translations, and many who don't use them are not opposed to others using them. What is your point in this thread?

Tue, 06/30/2009 - 3:42am

#31 permalink

Mark Henninger

Offline

Joined: Wed, Jun 17 2009

Posts: 16

Brian Jo wrote: Mark, it's

Brian Jo wrote:

Mark, it's hard to know what to say. Rather than interact with us here, you seem to just be set on talking about timeliness (whatever that means). There are many people on here that use modern translations, and many who don't use them are not opposed to others using them. What is your point in this thread?

My point is for our iron to be sharp that we recognize that the Word of God is always timely (It is impossible to give an example of God being untimely.) Therefore, God's Word today is (the tense of the verb is not was) never King James Only nor even King James Lukewarm, but always sharp with words of the living today.

If there were 50 neighborhoods today that spoke KJVese, this style might be sharp for those neighborhoods. Even if there were 5 less than 50. 5 less ...

Many say that they grew up coming to know God (as untimely) with the KJV. If they lived in the 1600s, fine. Timely, God always lives today and has actions which never deny this attribute, but back it up.

__________________

From death he did rise and will come again.
Move on with him now to be ready for then.
Mark
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=78598293746

Tue, 06/30/2009 - 7:55am

#32 permalink

Brian Jo

Offline

Joined: Sat, Jun 6 2009

Posts: 54

I did grow up coming to know

I did grow up coming to know God through the KJV. I won't raise my kids on it, but God did use it to draw me to himself, and I'm thankful for it. God's spirit can still work in people and help them to understand a translation that was done 400 years ago. (even though I don't think it's the best choice)

Thu, 02/25/2010 - 1:33pm

#33 permalink

BJWester

Offline

Joined: Mon, Feb 22 2010

Posts: 12

Mark Henninger][quote=Brian

Mark Henninger][quote=Brian Jo wrote:

(It is impossible to give an example of God being untimely.)

Old OP, but I came late...

Wouldn't Jesus quoting OT scriptures be an example of untimely? He was quoting something that was written hundreds or even a thousand years prior.

In teaching teens, I stopped using the KJV because I spent far too much time trying to explain words that none of us was were familiar with. So I agree somewhat with your intent.

However, I'm not sure I would include "timeliness" to be on par with "love" as an attribute of God. Not sure where the Bible would back that up either...

Welcome to the SharperIron forums!

Who's online

Online users

God's Word/attribute of timeliness