Anti-Westboro Baptist petition the most popular ever

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Anti-Westboro Baptist petition the most popular ever

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Huw's picture
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Votes

Of the 260,000 votes it will ( during the judgment) be interesting to discover how many voters were sodomites.

I also wonder that if a similar petition was doing the rounds in the days of Noach calling him a nut job for cutting down all those trees how many were laughing and mocking him.  

 

Is there anyone that will admit that most/all of what he says is Biblically accurate, even if you don't like his methods?

How could he change those methods to get his message across I wonder? The best way would be to keep silent and keep your head down I suppose.....like a coward would do. 

 

 

 

 

Chip Van Emmerik's picture
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Huw wrote:Is there anyone

Huw wrote:
Is there anyone that will admit that most/all of what he says is Biblically accurate, even if you don't like his methods?
Who is the "he" you reference? 

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Jim's picture
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Use the Westboro Baptist Church Sign Generator to ...

Use the Westboro Baptist Church Sign Generator to amaze your friends and slander your enemies

 

http://www.says-it.com/wbc/index.php

 

Seriously ... wouldn't bother me if they had their 501(c)(3) exemption revoked.

 

Huw's picture
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Who is ''he''

I'd forgotten his name and didn't bother looking it up as I thought it was obvious...Santa Claus.

 

Joking.  Mr Fred Phelps

Wasn't it obvious?

I may as well admit that I didn't have a clue who he was until I was posting on the BBC religion forums about 8 years ago. On a number of occasions I was accused of being Mr Phelps and so I looked him up and did some research.

I am a confessed homophobic and don't hide the fact. I was banned from the BBC for expressing the scriptural view that sodomites are a curse on society by the Almighty for the sins of irreverence and injustice within society. This is obviously not acceptable to the carnal mind.

Chip Van Emmerik's picture
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Huw wrote:Is there anyone

Huw wrote:
Is there anyone that will admit that most/all of what he says is Biblically accurate, even if you don't like his methods?
I was afraid you were talking about Phelps. Methods aside, the content of his message is horribly corrupted, despite maintaining a scant remnant of truth entwined with his theological aberrations. Even Satan retains remnants of truth, but that does not make him praiseworthy.

Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?

Huw's picture
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OK

What do you find to be untruthful on his stance on sodomites? 

Jim's picture
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Being that you are "not in Kansas" ...

Huw wrote:

What do you find to be untruthful on his stance on sodomites? 

Being that you are "not in Kansas" ... you may want to brush up on who they are: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

Huw's picture
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Jim

Would you say he is a servant of Satan or the Eternal?

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Response and a question

Huw wrote:

Would you say he is a servant of Satan or the Eternal?

 

[perhaps because you are "across the pond" you are not familiar with Westboro Baptist]

Response:

As I consider the gospel and the ministry of the gospel (as exemplified by the Apostle Paul who "plead[] with .... meekness and gentleness" (2 Corinthians 10:1) and who said "Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ" (1 Corinthians 11:1), I see nothing in the ministry of Westboro Baptist Church or Fred Phelps to make me think the church is a genuine Bible believing church  or that he is a minister of the gospel. 

Question:

As you would consider their ministry of hate  (Google search terms = Westboro Baptist + pickets) what do you see in their ministry that bears the marks of a NT church?

 

Jim's picture
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Associated article

Westboro: Condemn or ignore them?

“This group has been recognized as a hate group by organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center,” the petition states. “They pose a threat to the welfare and treatment of others and will not improve without some form of imposed regulation.”

It’s an idea that makes sense to David Gushee, distinguished professor of Christian ethics and director of the Center for Theology and Public Life at Mercer University.

“I would claim that Westboro’s public religious witness, if one can dignify it with that term, has indeed developed in a manner that arguably fits the FBI’s definition of a hate group,” Gushee said in an email to ABPnews.

The definition includes “groups that preach hatred and intolerance,” the bureau web site says.

“Their primary purpose now seems to be not just the promotion of hatred, especially against gays and lesbians, but also the fomenting of hatred against themselves through intentionally provocative demonstrations,” Gushee said.

Just a few days after the shootings, the moderator of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship denounced Westboro’s Sandy Hook plans and said it’s wrong to call the group a church.

“They are provocateurs of hatred for every hopeful human value most people hold dear,” Keith Herron told ABPnews. “To call themselves a church is to suggest unfathomable identity of God and faith that is sickening and vile.

I agree with the bolded section at the end of the quote

Huw's picture
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Jim

Lots of cut and paste and lots of words.

 

Question remains.  Servant of Satan or of the Eternal.

 

 

Rob Fall's picture
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At this point of time,

considering the reproach Mr. Phelps' and WBC's offensive actions have gained for the Church, I'd say Satan.  Unless, you consider the picketing of funerals of those killed in action to be what God would have you to do. 

Huw wrote:

Lots of cut and paste and lots of words.

 

Question remains.  Servant of Satan or of the Eternal.

 

 

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

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Nuanced response

I prefer to respond in my own way. 

  • Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka KS is NOT a Baptist and NOT a Bible-believing church
  • Fred Phelps is not a minister of the gospel.
  • I do consider them a hate group and as I thought I was clear earlier I do not think they should be accorded favorable tax status. 
  • There is no equivocation in my responses

OK your turn

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Which gospel?

Galatians 1:8-9

Read the interview with Shirley Phelps-Roper here: http://deliveredbygrace.com/?p=340, and the following parts to the article. Do they preach that Jesus died for sinners, rose again? That Jesus reconciled sinners to God? I'm not seeing it, or if it's there, it's buried in their profanity and name-calling. If they're trying to preach the gospel (and I don't think they are), they certainly aren't trying to preach it loud and clear.

Or take this quote from part 2:

19. Who is the cure for evil and sin in this world?

RESPONSE: I have to tell you Josh – a frontal lobotomy might be a cure for your evil and sin – either that or I’m afraid that it might take death and hell to cure you of all your foolish and unlearned questions.

Really? You're handed a gospel question on a silver platter and you answer that way? Back to Galatians 1:8-9: Whomever they serve, they don't preach the gospel; ergo, they are accursed.

 

 

Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA

Huw's picture
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An alliance of six UK

An alliance of six UK religious groups (the Baptist Union of Great Britain, Evangelical Alliance UK, Faithworks, Methodist Church of Great Britain, United Reformed Church and Bible Society-funded thinktank Theos) made a joint statement on February 19, 2009 in support of the government's decision and condemning the activities of the Westboro Baptist Church saying, "We do not share [Westboro's] hatred of lesbian and gay people. We believe that God loves all, irrespective of sexual orientation, and we unreservedly stand against their message of hate toward those communities.

Quote ‘’We believe that God loves all, irrespective of sexual orientation, and we unreservedly stand against their message of hate toward those communities’’. End quote.

Here we have the apostates speaking lies and yet they are well loved and respected amongst themselves and the world.

They are showing their approval for sin and denouncing a man, Fred Phelps, who speaks out against sin. Fred Phelps has the ability to zoom in on a particular sin or judgment and stick it right in your face and that is what people dislike. He preaches against the idolatry of flag worship and to a nation that loves it’s flag he becomes an abomination in the minds of those that have given their lives to the service of a country and a flag.

Fred Phelps is certainly a servant of the Eternal Almighty as all creatures big and small are His servants.

There is a tramp in Swansea that hasn’t washed or changed his clothes in 40 plus years. As his clothes rot he puts on another layer.
On a summers day you can smell him at 100 yds and wherever he stops he leaves his odor. He’s an atheist, in the true sense of the word, and yet he is a witness of the Almighty. I often stand with him for hours and watch the expressions on the faces of people going by and am reminded of the rich man and Lazarus.

Fred Phelps is known on these shores and that is more than I can say of any of you. His hatred for sin and sinners is as unmistakable as David’s was. If Fred Phelps is operating under the Holy Spirit then those that oppose him oppose the Eternal. Those that say he is working under the power of the prince of the air are committing the unforgivable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
 

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HUW

First of all, the petition over Westboro was created after they announced that they would picket a funeral claiming that this was God's judgment on America for allowing homosexuality. Where is the evidence that any of the families of the children that were shot were part of a homosexual family, or even promoted it? What if some of them were Christians that were opposed to homosexuality?

Yes, homosexuality is an abomination to God, but the difference between America and Sodom is that God would have spared Sodom if there would have been 10 righteous people found. There are enough righteous people in this country that do take a Biblical stand against homosexuality that I don't believe you can attribute the mass murders of children to the judgment of God. There is only one place in Scripture where God issues corporate punishment of nations for their sin during or after the age of grace and that is during the tribulation (Rev 3:10, Rev 9:20-21). That is not to say there are not times where God has not judged a nation corporately, but to make an all-inclusive declaration that every act of violence is the result of God's judgment against homosexuality is absurd.

And I agree with Jim on the point that Westboro is by no means a Baptist church nor fundamental. As much as I detest homosexuality, my mission as a minister of the gospel is not to declare curses on them for their actions, but the saving power of Jesus Christ; those who have not yet received Christ are already under condemnation, John 3:18. The Bible does not say "Go ye into all the world bearing picket signs". Westboro is like the Jew of Paul's time, "for they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge" Rom 10:2.

Westboro are merely attention seekers that enjoy appearing as martyrs. In Dearborn, Michigan, they picketed at a parade full of Muslims and their primary tool of evangelism was to call Mohammad  a child molester. As true as that is, you are not going to win a Muslim to Christ by beginning with a discourse about Mohammad being a pedophile.

I have won several Muslims to Christ without ever mentioning the immorality of their leader. I have won a few homosexuals to Christ who now out of true repentance have abdicated that lifestyle. I have seen no evidence from Fred Phelps or anyone from Westboro "Baptist" church that have offered any testimonials that they have EVER lead someone to Christ.

And you are way off base on what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is. First of all, the ultimate sin is the rejection of Christ as Savior when the Holy Spirit has made repeated attempts to convict you. You stated that, "Those that say he is working under the power of the prince of the air are committing the unforgivable sin, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" Post 16. The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not attributing the works of another MAN to the devil, it was attributing the works of the HOLY SPIRIT to the devil which the Pharisees had done by claiming that Christ manufactured His works through the power of Beelzebub. Matt 12:24.

Westboro gives the impression that people must stop sinning in order to be in right standing with God. Any kindergarten Bible student knows that the old self must be crucified with Christ PRIOR to the ability for one to live a consecrated life in the power of the Holy Spirit. As the old analogy goes, one does not heal himself and THEN go to the Doctor. These people are acting in what is in their nature to do, sin. Their nature needs to be changed before their actions can be changed, and that message is totally absent from Westboro's form of "evangelism".

Dr James Ach

What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25

Do Right Christians, and Calvinisms Other Side

Huw's picture
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Why

Why are you posing in combat gear carrying a weapon?

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Huw wrote: Why are you posing

Huw wrote:

Why are you posing in combat gear carrying a weapon?

Because it's a real picture of me when I was in the military, what difference does it make?

Dr James Ach

What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25

Do Right Christians, and Calvinisms Other Side

Huw's picture
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What difference does that make?

When I was converted and visited churches a chapels of various denominations. I was confronted by pastors that didn't seem comfortable as being perceived as meek or gentle. They would convey a persona that was tough and seemed to deny the very peace they should have been preaching. 

I know men, say they are converted, who have tattoos and instead of covering them up they prefer to show them off. This spirit is obnoxious and shows no signs of sorrow for the sin. I also feel it has a bad influence on children when they are confronted by these vile 'body arts'.  

 

I just can't take people who convey these juvenile tendencies seriously. I'm sorry if this offends you, but when I came out of the world I was taken aback to see it being promoted from the pulpit. 

 

 

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HUW ... keep on topic

*** Moderator Direction ***** 

HUW ... keep on topic here please. DrJamesAch's military service / avatar-photo is not the topic of this thread. 

 

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I can't see why gas stations

I can't see why gas stations allow people to buy lottery tickets and then make the rest of the people wait in line while they scratch it off and then buy another one if they win. That causes more frustration than any daily activity.

I don't understand why they say birds fly south for the winter yet the ones that don't fly south seem to make it through the winter just fine.

I don't get why folks say "You want your cake and eat it too". What's the purpose of baking a cake if you're not going to eat it?

I don't understand why what a doctor does is called "practice" and the meeting place for airplane rides is called "terminal".

What does any of the above have to do with your response? About the same as your response had to my answer about my picture: absolutely nothing!

Dr James Ach

What Kills You Makes You Stronger Rom 8:13; 7:24-25

Do Right Christians, and Calvinisms Other Side