Kenneth Copeland's new Jet

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Larry Nelson's picture

 

.....that Jesus fleeced His disciples and His other followers to acquire the finest chariot available at that time.

Wait......yeah, that never happened.

mmartin's picture

Just $2.5 million more needed to upgrade the avionics and interior to better suit KCM's needs for international flights.

Don't wait!  Give now - unless you don't want Jesus to bless you with your own G5!

Bert Perry's picture

Check out this from the Babylon Bee....

Seriously, when you can fly at the same speed from basically any airport in the world to another airport that way for a few hundred bucks, I really don't see how you make a cost/benefit analysis work for that plane.  

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Larry's picture

Moderator

A $2.5M jet is kind of slumming it in the corporate aviation world. 

The convenience of a private jet far outweighs commercial travel. It reminds me of the automakers appearance before congress when some got bent out of shape for a CEO flying on a corporate jet along with his assistants). First, by the time you buy tickets for 4-6 people at the last minute, the cost difference that great. Secondly, commercial flights require an extra 5-6 hours round trip (consider airport arrival time, security check-in, gate times, baggage claim, etc.) When you are paying a high level exec (salary around $500,000/year) around $240 an hour, you don't want that guy standing line for hours and killing time in an airport seating area. Not to mention there are airports that are more convenient to some things that commercial aviation doesn't fly to.

But pardon me, my jet is waiting for me to head to Florida to play golf tomorrow and get me back for church on Sunday. And at my salary, you don't want me sitting in an airport.

Bert Perry's picture

Larry, full cost is $17 million, according to the link.  Now I'd guess that's still somewhat slumming on corporate jets--it is used after all and the $2.5 million is just for updates--but somehow Warren Buffett's old adage about never buying companies that own aircraft comes to mind.  

Just for giggles, check out the comment section.  I reckon they will be cleaning it out soon, but some of the guys are really harsh on 'ol KC, and rightfully so.  

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Mark_Smith's picture

First, I have never given money to this jet... so what do I care if people give to KCM for them to buy an airplane. That is between the donors, Copeland, and Jesus. It's not like Copeland is hiding it!

Second, Rush Limbaugh owns a jet. John Travolta owns a jet. Shoot, the university I work at owns a jet to fly around the donors, president, and the football coach... you know, the important people. EVERY college football coach in the country flies around in a jet. Does that bother anyone? Or is it just the KCM is a ministry, and you are judging what other ministries do with their money?

My pastor drives a new F150 pick-up truck, dual cab, leather.... it's nice. Compared to a lot of people, that is extravagant. Should I be up in arms over his "waste". You might live in a nice house, drive a new car, use an iphone X... these are all extravagances. Who gets to judge which extravagance is a bridge too far?

Jim's picture

Mark_Smith wrote:

First, I have never given money to this jet... so what do I care if people give to KCM for them to buy an airplane. That is between the donors, Copeland, and Jesus. It's not like Copeland is hiding it!

If people are dumb enough to give to this ...

Jim's picture

Mark said: "My pastor drives a new F150 pick-up truck, dual cab, leather.... it's nice. Compared to a lot of people, that is extravagant. Should I be up in arms over his "waste". You might live in a nice house, drive a new car, use an iphone X... these are all extravagances. Who gets to judge which extravagance is a bridge too far?"

My pastor is financially successful: lives in a "tony" neighborhood (mine), has a nice vehicle. Good for him! How he spends his salary is his business!

My church does a pretty good job accounting for funds. I could quibble over a point or two where they might do better ... but still give them a A.

That's what counts - accountability

Jim's picture

Televangelists defend private jets: Commercial planes full of ‘demons’

Televangelists Kenneth Copeland and Jesse Duplantis defended their use of private jets as a luxury means of travel, arguing that commercial planes are full of “a bunch of demons” that will bog down their busy schedules with prayer requests.

In a Dec. 29 segment of Mr. Copeland’s “Believer’s Voice of Victory” television program, Mr. Duplantis recalled a story where he was on a plane and had to unbuckle his seat belt to speak to God, The Blaze reported.

“You couldn’t have done that over an airline,” added Mr. Copeland. “Stand up and say, ‘What did you say, Lord?’”

“No, sir, no way,” Mr. Duplantis agreed.

“You can’t do that,” Mr. Copeland said. “This is so important and those of you that are just now coming into these things in the first place: Jesse and I and others … the world is in such a shape, we can’t get there without [private jets]. 

“That’s why we are on that airplane. We can talk to God,” he said. “Now, Oral [Roberts] used to fly airlines. But, even back then it got to the place where it was agitating his spirit. People coming up to him, he had become famous, and they wanted him to pray for them and all that. You can’t, you can’t manage that today. This dope-filled world, and get in a long tube with a bunch of demons. And it’s deadly.”

“It works on your heart, it really does,” Mr. Duplantis agreed.

“So anyway, I wanted to make that clear so the devil can’t lie to you and say, ‘See them there preachers spending all that money, just fat cats riding around.’ No, we’re not; we’re in business,” Mr. Copeland assured viewers. “We’re in soul business here. We got a dying world around us. We got a dying nation around us and we can’t even get there on an airline.”

I'm guessing they tried "Spirit" airlines and found it lacking! :) 

Dave White's picture

You said: "what do I care .... Who gets to judge"

If you don't care, why do you post?

Aren't we called to judge?!

Bert Perry's picture

....but I think there is a point where too much is too much.  Does not Scripture tell us we ought not covet--desire to the point of being willing to sin to get that desire?  Does not the Scripture tell us that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil?   We can debate what that line is--I don't think it requires us to eat just bread and water, as Jesus enjoyed some pretty nice things at times--but there is a certain point where a certain love of luxury brings into question what one's real goals in life might be.  Maybe it's when the "stuff" we get cannot possibly improve our lives, but is rather just there for bragging rights.

So while certainly Copeland's prosperity theology is the biggest issue with him--a blasphemous distortion of the Gospel--his love for mammon (Matthew 6:24) gives us yet another hint that something is seriously wrong. 

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Mark_Smith's picture

Not exactly, though nice try.

What I said was I did not give to Copeland's ministry. Therefore, what he does with the ministry money is none of my business, except for fraud and the like since that is illegal.

My point is, you all seem to think a jet is excessive. OK. But compared to most of Africa and South America, that new car you drive, or your iphone, or your a/c, or your food that you throw away, etc. is excessive. 

I frankly do not care what Copeland does with his ministries money, and neither should you, assuming he is not doing anything illegal. hat he does is between him, his donors, and Jesus. Not you.

Bert Perry's picture

....so the possibility that others would, correctly or erroneously, say that the U.S. standard of living is Biblically impermissible makes Scripture's comment on the matter a dead letter?  

Sorry, can't go with that one, Mark.  Scripture certainly doesn't make it easy to figure out where the lines are, but our Lord tells us there is one--say somewhere where the guy says he's going to build more barns and live in plenty.  It's a bit more difficult to apply this to Copeland than to others--he at least has a plausible excuse since he is theoretically giving towards God (blasphemously, I believe, but giving nonetheless)--but I would dare say that even long term pastors who do not preach blasphemy like prosperity theology have a line they ought not cross.

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

GregH's picture

Feel free to share where the line is Bert. After all, I am sure you believe that the Bible has everything we need to know about living the Christian life so the line has to be in there somewhere. Some of us are just too dense to see it I guess.

I want to know the line because I need to know if it is OK for me to upgrade the countertops in my bathroom to granite or should they remain cultured marble.

 

Mark_Smith's picture

Sorry, Bert. You misread what I wrote. I did not say "America's standard of living makes Scripture's comment on the matter a dead letter". I did say that "extravagance" is in the eye of the beholder. To people living in a trash dump in Buenos Ares, your Big Mac lunch is an extravagance. You cannot condemn a jet as extravagance without condemning yourself as a hypocrite.

My main point is we who never pay any attention at all to Copeland's ministry get all upset and condemn it over a jet WE DID NOT GIVE TO. If you do not want to belong to a church or a ministry group that owns its own jet, fine. But, if other denominations or ministries do, and ask for donors to give to it, what is that to me? Nothing!

Consider this. Church A has a vibrant youth ministry and desires to build a $500,000 playland in their facility. They paid for it by a donation campaign free and clear. You at Church B think all of that is unnecessary and extravagant. You never gave any money to this campaign either. What is it to you if Church A does something you disagree with?

Copeland's jet is just like that.

Bert Perry's picture

Mark_Smith wrote:

Sorry, Bert. You misread what I wrote. I did not say "America's standard of living makes Scripture's comment on the matter a dead letter". I did say that "extravagance" is in the eye of the beholder. To people living in a trash dump in Buenos Ares, your Big Mac lunch is an extravagance. You cannot condemn a jet as extravagance without condemning yourself as a hypocrite.

<snip>

OK, if indeed whether something demonstrates extravagance is in the eye of the beholder, all we need to do to justify any level is to use a community of hedge fund managers as our reference, in which case indeed the Scriptures that ought to rein in our lusts would indeed be dead letters.

See where I'm coming from, Mark?

Aspiring to be a stick in the mud.

Greg Long's picture

It's not so much the jet itself, it's the false teaching and the fleecing that enabled him to buy the jet.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Richard Brunt's picture

Greg says it all.  These false teachers mostly go after the poor and desolate with the promise of good fortune and blessings that only come from giving to them. 

Richard E Brunt