Why a Cop left The Village Church

4784 reads

There are 18 Comments

Jim's picture

Between the Ferguson tweets, his blog post, and the tweet about John Crawford, I decided to email him. Instead of receiving a response from Matt, I instead got a reply from his assistant who tried to assure me that Matt didn’t mean anything negative towards the officers involved.  This is the biggest problem with multi-campus churches in my opinion because it spreads the “lead pastor” too thin and he’s nearly forced to delegate things like this to assistants,

Joeb's picture

When Jim was a Pastor in NJ there were a good number of families who were lead by men employed as Police Officers at his church. .  These same men were close friends of mine.  I never heard any of them ever bring up any complaints about Jim or Jim’s church mistreating Police Officer Lead families. It was just the opposite. Of course this was when we were all young men with young families. Believe it or not Jim was a young man at one time.    

In fact all these officers and their  wives had a great respect for Jim and consider him their go to Pastor and good friend.  

It sounds like the Pastor of this TVC church went astray in a significant way. Instead of holding a middle ground and considering both sides of the equation he automatically sided with the perps and made blanket judgements of the Police.  In reality each situation stands on its own.  

Believe me those same Police Officers who knew Jim well shared situations with me where they observed racial profiling.  They voiced their objections to it and explained that they were to protect their community and not to focus on pulling over people passing through just to make drug arrests ie Driving While Black AKA: The Old   Broken Tail Light Trick.  So it did go on but was limited.  

In fact at that time the Local State Trooper Barracks were known as the Hitler Youth by  the local cops.  So yes there was a a certain amount of racism by white Police Officers and believe it or not by the minority Police Officers themselves.

 As LA Police Chief Willy Williams once said in a TV interview   There is one color for Police Officers BLUE   A Black or Hispanic Police Officer won’t turn on a White Police Officer for using excess force against a minority suspect    They are all Blue and all the perps white black or green are the bad guys period   

Also there is a certain amount of racism in the Evangelical/Fundy Church in the United States.  So let’s be honest it does exist.  We are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God.  Unfortunately this Pastor Of TVC had an unbalanced approach and had compromised his walk by taking to much from the world on these matters instead of turning to the scriptures and using the common sense God gave him  

 

Greg Long's picture

I was at T4G. Platt's message was powerful and important. I'm not sure why it would stir up anyone's ire.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

T Howard's picture

Greg Long wrote:

I was at T4G. Platt's message was powerful and important. I'm not sure why it would stir up anyone's ire.

As he was preaching, I was wondering if the T4G crew would apply his message to the Sovereign Grace fiasco as well. Guess not.

Wayne Wilson's picture

Greg, 

Do you think Amos 5 and the use of it by David Platt reflects the current situation of Black Americans in the United States? 

Are the problems in the Black community today primarily due to racism?

Jim's picture

Wayne Wilson wrote:

Greg, 

Do you think Amos 5 and the use of it by David Platt reflects the current situation of Black Americans in the United States? 

Are the problems in the Black community today primarily due to racism?

No ... no!

Jim's picture

Perhaps the black community should repent of:

As for me: neither my family nor my wife's ever had black slaves. Many Peets served in the Union army to win the freedom for blacks. My wife's family was so dirt poor in Wisconsin (just one faucet in their house (the kitchen) and an outhouse - that a black poor person of 2018 would be rich in comparison. I have nothing of which to repent! (I have one son-in-law that is a person of color (from Afghanistan) and a daughter-in-law who is a person of color (from Kolkata India)

People attend churches that mirror their own belief systems! Are black preachers calling their own people to repent instead of wallowing in self-pity

Ron Bean's picture

I have a black ancestor who married an American-Indian and were forced to live in poverty on a reservation. I have Irish ancestors who were the objects of cruel discrimination and poverty. Yet personally I enjoy opportunities they never had.

Do I repent or do I demand repentance?

(I post this with a certain amount of real fear of repercussions.)

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

JBL's picture

I will make several points of contention regarding Jim's comment on sins of the black community.

The first is that Jim's choice of words indicate that he is referring to the sins of the black community, which is different from a black church.  Yes, people of color have sinned, but so have people of all races.  No church has accountability over whether those outside the body of Christ repent for them or not.  Therefore whether black persons have sinned is really not relevant to the discussion.

If Jim is referring to the black church, I would argue that the terms "black" or "white" church are an affront to God.  I believe perpetuating the unfortunate use of referring to a church by its racial majority is serious error and undermines the unity that Christians have in Christ.

John B. Lee

TylerR's picture

Editor

You wrote:

I have a black ancestor who married an American-Indian and were forced to live in poverty on a reservation. I have Irish ancestors who were the objects of cruel discrimination and poverty. Yet personally I enjoy opportunities they never had.

Do I repent or do I demand repentance?

I think you should preach a message demanding the British government repent of its sins against your Irish ancestors. And, moreover, I think you should sent a transcript to 10 Downing Street, addressed to Theresa May, and demand a formal response.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Ron Bean's picture

My Irish ancestors left Ireland because of persecution only to endure the same experience in America because they chose to live in the wrong neighborhoods. That didn't deter one of them from enlisting in the famed Iron Brigade of the Union army.

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

Greg Long's picture

David Platt did not call white people to repent of the sins of slaveholders.

-------
Greg Long, Ed.D. (SBTS)

Pastor of Adult Ministries
Grace Church, Des Moines, IA

Adjunct Instructor
School of Divinity
Liberty University

Joel Shaffer's picture

Perhaps the black community should repent of:

Black on black crime in Baltimore (link is external), Chicago (link is external), and DC (link is external) (I could add N Minneapolis (link is external))

The black liberation theology (link is external)

The black holocaust (link is external) : On average, 900 Black babies are aborted every day in the United States

The black out of wedlock issue (link is external)(sin of fornication / adultery): 70 percent of all births among African-Americans happen out of wedlock

As for me: neither my family nor my wife's ever had black slaves. Many Peets served in the Union army to win the freedom for blacks. My wife's family was so dirt poor in Wisconsin (just one faucet in their house (the kitchen) and an outhouse - that a black poor person of 2018 would be rich in comparison. I have nothing of which to repent! (I have one son-in-law that is a person of color (from Afghanistan) and a daughter-in-law who is a person of color (from Kolkata India)

People attend churches that mirror their own belief systems! Are black preachers calling their own people to repent instead of wallowing in self-pity

This is quite the misnomer because it assumes that issues such as black-on-black crime, abortion, out of wedlock births aren't being addressed in the Black churches.  Among the many evangelical Black churches that I am in connection with all over the country, but especially in the Midwest, these issues are continually addressed, especially in the pulpits but also in urban communities (by far more than talking about racism)  People on Sharper Iron don't hear about it because: #1 they don't have close relationships with black Christians that are pastors, #2 The media primarily highlights racial conflict and ignores these stories because it doesn't generate nearly as much interest (it doesn't sell).   In my almost 3 decades of doing urban ministry, the marches and city-wide forums against black on black crime and violence outnumbers the marches and forums against racism about 3 to 1.  The problem with the echo chamber on Sharper Iron is that so many here are really outsiders looking in and viewing much of this through a biased lens.  If you have repeated the stereotype/misnomer (I've heard this line on fox news about 40-50 times) that Blacks need to focus on black-on-black crime rather than police brutality because its a bigger issue, your sources for embracing the stereotype/misnoer are biased.  Again, these issues are far more addressed but many on Sharper Iron don't hear about it because they are not in actual relationships to know that it is happening.  

TylerR's picture

Editor

There are a few things going on here:

  1. The careful, responsible presentations get lost in a lot of irresponsible clutter. You mentioned this when you disagreed with Anyabwile's articles. It's very difficult for folks to get a responsible, careful introduction to the issue in this climate.
  2. The careful, responsible presentations may not be representative of the popular (and, defacto "real") face of the movement. This also needs to be given serious consideration.
  3. Your comments, to some extent, are directed towards white pastors who don't get out much. You wrote they "don't have close relationships with black Christians that are pastors." To be sure, this could be a valid criticism. But, I've been in the secular workforce for years and years, and am not siloed off in my cozy Christian bubble. I work alongside all kinds of strange folks everyday, in the pseudo-socialist region known as the "left coast." And, I still disagree with you.

If you ever get time, I would enjoy reading a reasoned explanation of social justice and it's implications from you. I know you have decades of experience and perspective I don't have on this. I'm still not sure I'd agree with you, but I'd listen.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Joel Shaffer's picture

Tyler, I really appreciate your perspective and that you are willing to listen.  That goes a long way when working through these very difficult issues.  By the way, I do not think that I have all the answers when it comes to both justice and/or racial reconciliation.  In fact, some of what I post, I haven't completely made up my mind yet and sometimes use Sharper Iron's pushback to help expose some of the blind spots in my arguments that I may not see.  

By the way, I think Kevin DeYoung's article provides a great structure to work through so that this whole fuzzy concept of racial reconciliation can actually move forward in conversation.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/racial-reconcilia...

TylerR's picture

Editor

Thanks for the link. I'll read it. I've also received some good feedback from Greg Linscott, who went to T4G. He said Ligon Duncan's sermon on this issue was exemplary, and suggested I listen to it to hear the best representation from the "other side" (for lack of a better term). I also intend to listen to Platt's sermon, because it has now become so infamous.

Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and an Investigations Manager with a Washington State agency. He's the author of the book What's It Mean to Be a Baptist?

Joeb's picture

Joel your presentation is a three pointer that the Philadelphia 76rs love to hit.  If one is living in a Lilly White Community in the Midwest or somewhere else and never lived for a good period of time in an area with a large poor African American Community such as Philadelphia its hard for a White Christians  to understand the situation.  

I do because went to college for five years in Philadelphia and worked the streets of Philadelphia as a Criminal Investigator for 25 years.

 Speaking of statistics of out of wedlock births. In Pennsylvania per captia the white rural youngster hold the out of wedlock births crown.  

Also 70 % of the heroin users are Whites from the suburban and rural areas.  That’s the Gang Bangers new customers.  So Black On Black crime occurs but I’d say mostly related to fights between drug gangs which includes innocent bystanders. However the White clientele now provide the bulk of the revenues feeding this violent crime.