The Pitfalls and Joys of "Trying Harder"

I recently wrote a brief defense of the importance of personal effort (or “trying harder”) in God’s gracious design to transform His saints. My central claim was that we put ourselves at odds with the NT if we understand or teach the dynamic of sanctification in a way that devalues or strongly cautions against hard work.

But that doesn’t mean emphasizing hard work has no attendant hazards.

Bob Hayton wrote of one of these pitfalls in a post last summer: Particular Pitfalls of Independent Baptists: Performance-Based Sanctification.

Work hard, feel good; blow it and feel terrible. Where is the confidence in God’s grace in this model? The secret to living victoriously for Christ is gritting your teeth, doing more, and not doing the things you shouldn’t do. Try, try, try. Harder, harder, harder! Don’t quit. Keep going. We say that salvation is by grace, but growing in Christ is about the will power, the commitment and the determination.

This can lead to despair or a terrible form of pride.

The solution Bob advocates (citing Terry Rayburn and Tim Kellar, in part) is to reject trying harder, and focus exclusively on faith. Several Reformed leaders have emphasized a similar perspective in recent years (with a burst of back and forth on the Web beginning in the summer of 2011, see the table posting tomorrow), Tullian Tchividjian and Sean Lucas among them.

My purpose here is to explore the problem Bob and others have described. Perhaps we can come to more fully understand it.

The “just preach the gospel to yourself” view of sanctification has a legitimate complaint when it describes the despair-pride yo-yo experience many believers go through. I’ve not only met Christians like this but have done my share of bouncing up down as well. Whatever might be lacking in the “just preach to yourself” or “gospel centered” model, it’s advocates are right that a state of alternating inner turmoil and arrogance cannot be what Christ and the apostles had in mind in the New Testament.

Where is the peace?

Jesus said He was leaving His peace with us and that our hearts should not be troubled (John 14:27). We know that this trouble-free state isn’t intended to be unvarying (1 Pet. 1:6-7, for example). But it is supposed to be a state of heart that dominates our experience and never completely subsides. Though Jesus promised His followers hardship and toil, He also promised us abundant life (John 10:10) and rest for our souls (Matt. 11:29).

Especially after His resurrection, Jesus’ favorite greeting was “Peace be with you!” (Luke 24:36, John 20:19, 21, 26). And it’s no coincidence that Paul’s favorite opening blessing focused on “grace and peace.”

John 16:33 brings the experiences of trouble and peace together.

I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world. (ESV)

In the midst of trouble, we are called to gather up the loose ends of our thinking and rest our hope on our future grace (1 Pet. 1:13). So if our efforts to live the Christian life in a God-honoring and God-pleasing way have us in a state of continual turmoil, we’re not doing it right. Something is out of kilter, in attitudes, actions or both.

Where is the joy?

Just as Jesus promised a life of peace, He promised one of joy. He said one of the specific aims of His teaching was to impart His joy to them and that this joy would be “full” (John 15:11, compare John 17:13).

The epistles are also full of calls to rejoice. “Rejoice in hope” (Rom. 12:12); “finally brothers, rejoice” (2Cor. 13:11); “you also should rejoice and be glad with me” (Php 2:18); “rejoice in the Lord” (Php. 3:1); “rejoice always” (1 Thess. 5:16). Peter sums it up beautifully.

Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls. (ESV, 1 Pet. 1:8-9)

If our approach to the pursuit of godliness is joyless, we’re actually trying to be godly by being ungodly. You don’t need a Master’s degree to know that can’t be right.

The real problem

The anxiety and pride yo-yo experience does not represent what the NT teaches about sanctification, but does it follow that we should reject “trying harder” in favor of exclusive focus on faith? To approach the question from another angle, is it possible to call believers to more sacrifice and greater devotion, and emphasize obedience, without producing anxiety-ridden, joyless or proud Christian living?

As my post last week shows, it must be possible because it’s what the NT actually does. The imperative is not sacrificed for the indicative or the indicative for the imperative. Calls to faith, peace, and joy abound along side of (and directly related to) calls to try harder.

So what’s really behind this worried, joyless, struggle-focused sanctification dynamic?

1. Selectivity

The Pharisees described in the Gospels were not sincere God-loving men who happened to be overly fond of rules. They were unbelieving God-rejectors in the service of their father the Devil (Matt. 23:14, John 8:44-47). Still, it is possible for believers to resemble Pharisees in some ways. One of the most common ways we do this is by creating a highly selective list of criteria for gauging Christian authenticity and maturity. It’s often a very superficial list we find personally easy.

But when we select a handful of superficial benchmarks to pursue with great zeal we end up neglecting some “weightier matter.” We replace the call to “walk in a manner worthy” (Eph. 4:1, Col. 1:10) with a call walk in outward conformity to our pet values. This version of “try harder” is usually a pretense for “You all need to try harder so you’ll be like me [and I’m not trying at all anymore.]”

“Trying harder” in this way robs believers of joy because it puts distance between us and the One who is the real source of our joy.

2. Impatience

Effort in the pursuit of holiness becomes anxious and joyless when we lose sight of the big picture. For reasons of His own, God’s way is to bring us slowly and sovereignly to Christlikeness. This is why Paul had to remind the Philippians that God would be “faithful to complete” the good work He had started (Php. 1:6).

If we’re boiling with anxiety about some lingering sinful habit, the question is “Am I being faithful in using what God has provided?” If the answer is yes, we’re not only permitted, but called to rest in His wisdom about what He changes in us when and in what sequence.

3. Forgetfulness

The “preach the gospel to yourself” advocates are right about one thing. We do need to constantly preach the gospel to ourselves. The error lies in giving this task exclusivity in the sanctification dynamic or in emphasizing this task in a way that belittles the value of working hard. We are to preach the gospel to ourselves and try harder. It’s the only way to avoid forgetting who we are, what has been done for us, why we are to not be conformed to this world, and where the transformative power comes from.

Interestingly, Peter links forgetfulness with failure to try harder (2 Peter 1:8-9). But he does not say the relationship can only work in one way. If we get too busy working, we can easily fall into Martha’s error and become so busy trying harder we forget Who it’s all about (Luke 10:41-42).

Conclusion

When we pursue the work of sanctification with a deep and abiding awareness that we do so because God is at work in us (Php. 2:12), trying harder becomes a joyful participation in what God is graciously doing. We see Him work in and through us and overflow with humble thanks for what we know we do not deserve—and we rejoice all the more in anticipation of what He will do in the future.

Aaron Blumer Bio

Aaron Blumer, SharperIron’s second publisher, is a Michigan native and graduate of Bob Jones University (Greenville, SC) and Central Baptist Theological Seminary (Plymouth, MN). He and his family live in a small town in western Wisconsin, not far from where he pastored Grace Baptist Church for thirteen years. He is employed in customer service for UnitedHealth Group and teaches high school rhetoric (and sometimes logic and government) at Baldwin Christian School.

Discussion

[Aaron Blumer]

Having already provided a sacrifice/payment for our sin, together with God’s omniscience, He is never harmed or disappointed or offended by our post-conversion sin. He already knew it was going to happen and He already forgave it. So why (and how) is the fellowship disrupted?

This is an inference and makes some sense but where does the Bible teach it? There’s a difference between these two things:

  • Unalterable standing before God
  • Complete unresponsiveness of God to to what we actually think and do

The latter is not taught anywhere in the Bible, not even in the NT. Rather, several passages indicate that He is pleased or displeased in varying degrees in response to what we actually do. Fellowship is indeed disrupted, not only on our part as we feel bad for disappointing Him but also on His part—He is genuinely displeased. (His displeasure is satisfied by the cross. All penalties paid, but the cross does not render God ambivalent about sin in His children)

I’ll come back to that, but first… why 1 John 1:9 is written to believers

  1. The epistle itself is written to believers. There would need to be strong contextual evidence for seeing any part of it as directed at the unbelieving.
  2. The close context indicates that “we” is believers. For example, the group John says he is writing to is described in 1:4 “and we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.” Right after the famous 1:9-10 passage, he addresses “my little children” in 2:1. There is no indication here that he has changed audiences anywhre in the chapater.
  3. The language of “confessing sins” is not used anywhere in the NT as conversion language. Rather, the emphasis is on turning and believing. On the other hand, we do see language of confession used elsewhere of believers (James 5:16).

There are probably several other reasons, but I’m trying to be brief.

As for God feeling nothing in response to the sin of believers, if that is the case, the following passages simply make no sense:

Col. 1:-10 2 Cor. 5:9 1 Thess. 4:1

In addition, it’s pretty hard to make sense of Heb. 12:7, 10 and 1 Cor. 10:5-6.

But there are also major logical problems with this “I’m justified so God is never unhappy with me” idea. It runs counter to the entire purpose of the gospel, which is not merely to justify people, but to change them.

Secondly, it’s impossible to read the many imperatives of the NT calling us to walk in a worthy way, pursue holiness, run with endurance, etc, etc, and believe that we are supposed to feel nothing at all when we fail. A sense of highest duty is being appealed to in these passages. How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (Rom. 6:2). “My brethren, these things ought not to be so” (James 3:10). Paul refers multiple times to “shame” in 1 Cor. (1Cor. 6:5, 15:34).

The sense of “oughtness” cannot reasonably exist with a belief that what we do simply doesn’t matter. And if it matters it is impossible that God should not care about it. I.e., if He is not pleased or displeased, then it doesn’t matter, plain and simple.

But this view of Christian living cannot be sustained through a reading of the NT.

This is a good discussion, and I appreciate your continued participation. But you’ve misunderstood the alternative to disrupted fellowship. It is not “complete unresponsiveness of God to what we actually think and do.” I agree with you that that is not taught in the Bible. But neither, it seems to me on closer inspection, is disrupted fellowship. For an example of both our points — yours that God is not completely unresponsive and mine that His response is not negative toward us (due to Christ’s intervention) — look at the father’s behavior in the parable of the prodigal son. I have no doubt that the father was grieved by his son’s gross sin, but he was grieved *for* his son — for the pain and harm he knew the son was causing himself — not grieved *at* his son. As evidence, see his posture and his reaction at the end of the story: before any I John 1:9 behavior from the son, and without even knowing whether such behavior would be forthcoming, he ran to the son and embraced him and welcomed him home. The son had to insist on being allowed to confess and ask forgiveness. It seems pretty clear that the moral of the story is not that the prodigal was estranged from the father because of the *father’s* reaction to the prodigal’s sin (and until the prodigal confessed and was forgiven); instead, the moral is that the prodigal need never have been estranged from the father, the estrangement was only on the prodigal’s end, and the end of the estrangement was not dependent or conditional on the son’s confession. Of course, the attitude that was best for the son was one of contrition, but the father’s warm, welcoming love was in no way affected by the presence or absence of that contrition.

Likewise, I’m not saying that “we are supposed to feel nothing at all when we fail.” The prodigal son felt significant contrition, as he should have. But how did he feel the next time he sinned against his father after he saw how graciously his father welcomed him home from his prodigal wandering? We would naturally expect that it didn’t take him nearly as long to “come to his senses” and “return” to his father, because he knew now that his father didn’t regard their fellowship to have been disrupted at all. One concern I have with an imbalance toward imperatives (and the corollary that God is disappointed/offended/angered by His children’s sin) is that its natural effect is to keep prodigals in the pig sty longer, dreading the day of reckoning. They’re being taught that they have to return to God as the prodigal returned to his father, in abject misery and flagellation, when in fact the prodigal’s father made no such requirement. Nor does God.

Another huge problem with the emphasis on imperatives is that the only way we can live with ourselves at all (if we really think that our post-conversion sins have a negative impact on God’s feelings toward us) is to downplay the extent and seriousness of our sin. Even the “best” of us — those who do all the right externals (daily devotions, church involvement, visitation, etc.) and don’t do all the wrong externals (insert list) AND who pay utmost attention to their internal attitudes, motives, etc. — are filthy rotten sinners in God’s eyes. But if we believe that truth (and it is the truth) and we also believe that each of our failures has a negative effect on our relationship with God, not just on our end but on His end too, we’d go insane with grief. So instead, we convince ourselves that it really is possible to “walk worthy” or to “please” God by our adherence to the imperatives, but only by ignoring either many of the imperatives or many of our failures.

As to I John 1:9, I may not have been clear. Of course the book in general and vv. 5-10 specifically were written TO Christians. What I meant to question is whether v. 9 is describing the daily, post-conversion life of a Christian, as it is often taught. The problem is that v. 9 is part of a contrasting couplet with v. 8 — “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” In other words, if we maintain that we aren’t sinners, we haven’t appropriated the truth and we aren’t saved; we’re effectively saying we don’t need a savior. What we have to do to be saved is to acknowledge our sins and ask forgiveness — recognize that we need a savior and that Christ is that savior. So v. 9 is simply a statement of the theology that is a predicate for conversion; it’s not a prescription for post-conversion life.

Your thoughts? Thanks.

Only have a minute.

I think I’m understanding your view more clearly.

I don’t have time to support anything much at the moment, but in general, I’d say that my view sees a greater distinction between our position in Christ and our relational experience with God. I see 100% of God’s judgment is paid for on the cross—and we are justified permanently. But in reality we still sin and God approves or disapproves of those acts when they happen.

In the end, I don’t think it’s any easier to reconcile “God’s response is not negative” with than it is to make “God feels nothing at all” with the NT.

By the same token, the sense of oughtness that underlies so many of the imperatives still crumbles if there is no negative reaction on God’s part or ours when we sin.

As for the prodigal son: I would take that parable the way you seem to take 1 John 1:9 - as referring to conversion. On the other hand, is there an application for believers who stray? Sure. But it’s extracting too much from the parable to conclude that the joy the Father feels when we repent is exclusive: that there was no grief or displeasure before the joy.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[Aaron Blumer]

But in reality we still sin and God approves or disapproves of those acts when they happen.

… By the same token, the sense of oughtness that underlies so many of the imperatives still crumbles if there is no negative reaction on God’s part or ours when we sin.

if this is so, doesn’t God have to be always displeased with us? Because every single thing we do or attempt never meets His standards.

?? do you think?

It’s an interesting question all around because I wonder how much we assume or project feelings or reactions onto God. for many years, when my conscience was so hyper-sensitive and untrained, I would feel/imagine disapproval. When now I understand there wasn’t.

Maybe this why we are searching out this question.

i have more rumbling around but I can’t see how to put it into words yet.

dmyers, what do you think about the Lord’s prayer saying “forgive us our sins as we forgive….” ?

Anne: I agree with you that the unavoidable implication of the concern with “oughtness” is that God is always displeased with us, because we never fully behave/feel/think/are motivated as we ought. But of course no one who believes in thoroughly synergistic sanctification believes that; or, if they do, they don’t live in anything like pervasive awareness of it. Hence my concern, expressed to Aaron above, that proponents of synergistic sanctification unavoidably downplay Christians’ post-conversion sinfulness. Seems to me there are only three responses for the person who believes in synergistic sanctification: perpetual grief; downplaying their sin; or grateful realization that, as Steve Brown puts it, “God’s not mad at you.”

Interesting that you asked about the Lord’s Prayer — the same question occurred to me, so I dug into it some. Here’s my tentative answer: In sum, it’s the difference between pre-Cross and post-Cross. In Mt. 6:9-14, Jesus is speaking under the Law. As He did with anger, lust/adultery, and other topics, He was communicating to His hearers that the Law is even more difficult to keep than they imagined. On this topic, He told them that *they had to forgive to be forgiven*. After the Cross, though, the order is reversed, per passages such as Eph. 4:32 (“forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you”) and Col. 3:12-13 (“Forgive as the Lord forgave you”). We forgive (or should) *because we’ve been forgiven*. Our forgiveness from God is no longer conditional on our forgiving others, because we are in Christ.

[Anne Sokol]

[Aaron Blumer]

But in reality we still sin and God approves or disapproves of those acts when they happen.

… By the same token, the sense of oughtness that underlies so many of the imperatives still crumbles if there is no negative reaction on God’s part or ours when we sin.

if this is so, doesn’t God have to be always displeased with us? Because every single thing we do or attempt never meets His standards.

Actually, whenever we obey He is pleased. It really is that simple. Though our obedience is till often tainted by a pinch of selfishness or something else, He pleased with every bit of the growth and progress He has brought about in us.

We shouldn’t think of our obedience as a “perfect or nothing” scenario. The NT just doesn’t frame it that way. Rather, we have imperatives to pursue: love God w/all heart soul strength. It’s a self-defeating mindset if we reason “Well, I’ll never love Him perfectly, so what’s the use?” The same is true of all the put-off, put-on passages.

Not a sports fan, but baseball helps here. It would be silly for really good batters to simply not try because they will never bat 1000. We recognize that the guys are doing 300 or better are accomplishing something.

So to sum up whenever we obey, we are meeting His standards… that’s what “obey” means.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

name a day you’ve ever obeyed more than disobeyed …

do you or I even understand how much we don’t obey? The more I see Jesus and ponder the depths of God’s commands, the more I see that I don’t obey.

does that mean I quit everything? Of course not. That would be silly. Though there are people who go that way when they can’t meet their own man-made expectations.

It means that I work with joy because Jesus did it all for me perfectly. I am following in His steps. I cannot nor will ever earn God’s good pleasure.

obedience really is perfect or nothing. Jesus was perfect. I’m just following him, and my efforts are not praiseworthy. They are worth doing in that I’m following Jesus and serving as he served. but shucks. even my obedience is riddled with incompleteness.

Aaron, earlier you wrote:

“ ‘Disrupted fellowship’ does not require that either of the people involved decide to lessen or reduce anything. Rather, it’s a natural consequence of causing pain to someone you love. When you let somebody down, you feel guilt about that. In addition they are harmed or disappointed or offended in some way. And there is a disharmony in the relationship. This is what is usually meant by ‘disrupted fellowship.’ They need to clear the air between them. This is what 1 John 1:9 is all about.”

In your last comment, you wrote:

“Actually, whenever we obey He is pleased. It really is that simple. Though our obedience is till often tainted by a pinch of selfishness or something else, He pleased with every bit of the growth and progress He has brought about in us.

We shouldn’t think of our obedience as a ‘perfect or nothing’ scenario. The NT just doesn’t frame it that way. Rather, we have imperatives to pursue: love God w/all heart soul strength. It’s a self-defeating mindset if we reason ‘Well, I’ll never love Him perfectly, so what’s the use?’ The same is true of all the put-off, put-on passages.

Not a sports fan, but baseball helps here. It would be silly for really good batters to simply not try because they will never bat 1000. We recognize that the guys are doing 300 or better are accomplishing something.

So to sum up whenever we obey, we are meeting His standards… that’s what ‘obey’ means.”

This seems to me to be an example of the cognitive dissonance that inheres in your view. Describing the disrupted fellowship concept, resort has to be made to our “causing pain to” God, our “feel[ing] guilt about that,” our “harm[ing] or disappoint[ing] or offend[ing] ” God, and “disharmony in the relationship.” But when it’s pointed out that we sin frequently enough that our fellowship must necessarily be disrupted on a regular basis, the tenor changes — now the focus is on how pleased He is with what (relatively little — or any?) we do right and that even if we’re batting .300 we “are accomplishing something.” (Note that your understanding of 1 John 1:9 doesn’t “clear the air” as to the majority of our sins, which never even register to us.) I think this yo-yoing between self-abnegation and an inflated sense of the good we do is what leaves the average Christian so confused, conflicted, and frequently despairing about his walk. (By the way, it seems to me there’s a rather large problem with the baseball analogy. The .300 hitter is doing well compared to the small percentage of the human population who are baseball players. If he had an owner or manager who insisted on a 1.000 batting average, he’d live in constant failure and frustration.)

You’re right that the “what’s the use” attitude is self-defeating. But the traditional alternative — disrupted fellowship remedied by 1 John 1:9 — is an inferior solution (as is to be expected if, as I believe, it’s actually unbiblical). The superior alternative is the understanding described by Keller in Prodigal God, Tchividjian in Jesus + Nothing = Everything, Steve Brown in Three Free Sins, etc. God is always pleased with us, in Christ. We have nothing to hide, nothing to lose, and nothing to prove. There is no such thing as disrupted fellowship as far as God is concerned. God’s grace covers our post-conversion sins and failed performance both positionally and relationally. The practical result of this understanding is gratitude and freedom to do a better job of obeying than we would otherwise do.

“name a day you’ve ever obeyed more than disobeyed …”

Why does this matter? The failures do not erase the successes God is bringing about in our lives. Every time we obey, we walked worthily in that moment; it’s His grace at work and we should rejoice in that.

It’s so self defeating and joy-draining to focus on the failures.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Describing the disrupted fellowship concept, resort has to be made to our “causing pain to” God, our “feel[ing] guilt about that,” our “harm[ing] or disappoint[ing] or offend[ing] ” God, and “disharmony in the relationship.” But when it’s pointed out that we sin frequently enough that our fellowship must necessarily be disrupted on a regular basis, the tenor changes — now the focus is on how pleased He is with what (relatively little — or any?) we do right and that even if we’re batting .300 we “are accomplishing something.”

I think we would do well to just go back to the NT and work with what it says. For that, I refer you to the OP and the preceding article. However difficult some of us may find it to reconcile what Scripture says with the way we think things must be, the NT still says what it says.

As I posted earlier (and these passages have not been addressed by the other views), the NT appeals repeatedly to a sense of oughtness and often speaks of shame (1 John 2:28 is another example).

So when we sin, we are supposed to recognize the entire truth of the situation. The truth is all of the below … .

  • God is in the process of remaking me in His image
  • God is pleased when I obey
  • God is displeased when I do not
  • God never loves me any less or more, regardless
  • God never requires any kind of payment (from me) for my sin, regardless
  • The progress in my life honors Him (“worthily” is the word for the walk); the remaining sin does not
  • I should be displeased and ashamed about sin in my life
  • I should pleased and delighted by obedience in my life

There is really nothing hard to understand here (though obedience is often hard to do)

When you’re heading on a long trip to see a loved one, you are simultaneously glad for the miles behind you and bummed out that there still many yet ahead.
If we dismiss unfounded either-or thinking (it’s still a mystery to me where this comes from) on the topic of sanctification the NT is not hard to understand on this.

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

[Aaron Blumer]

“name a day you’ve ever obeyed more than disobeyed …”

Why does this matter? The failures do not erase the successes God is bringing about in our lives. Every time we obey, we walked worthily in that moment; it’s His grace at work and we should rejoice in that.

It’s so self defeating and joy-draining to focus on the failures.

no one is saying to focus on the failures. What I’m saying is that if God’s being pleased with me is contingent upon my obedience, He will have much more reason to be displeased with me.

the commands in the NT show us, first of all, what Christ did for us. When we have the spirit of following Him, then the commands take their rightful place.

If we focus on obeying the commands, we 1) reduce them to do-able, measurable things, thereby 2) fooling ourselves that we are obeying in a sufficient way, when really 3) we lose the intent of the command, and 4) can even obey the standard we set yet at the same time be disobeying God in certain situations. 5) we limit our growth/sanctification to a human level.

This is why Christ is the emphatic focus of these men’s writings. They are not saying disobedience is unimportant or irrelevant. They are saying that what we focus on is what leads us to obedience, that what we emphasize in sanctification (Christ, the all-life-encompassing truths of the gospel, etc) will be the best aid into obedience that pleases God.

The passages that speak of our calling to strive to please Him are still in the NT. And these passages are meaningless unless failure is displeasing.

9 And so, from the day we heard, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God. (Col. 1:9-10)

See also 2 Cor 5:9, Eph. 5:10, 1 Thess. 4:1

The missing concept here is simultaneity. Both-and.

  • We are justified (righteous standing) even though we are not actually righteous
  • God is pleased in that sense even though He is also not pleased by our sin

Though the Scriptures are clear enough read directly, a bit of reasoning strengthens the argument a little:

  • It is not possible for God to be unaware of our sin
  • It is not possible for God to fail to be displeased by sin

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

But you are then minimizing God’s displeasure. Can you bear God’s displeasure for your sins? No one can. Christ had to do it—He had to bear God’s displeasure (for pre/post conversion sins).

Christ took/bore all our shame and the displeasure of God.

Think about it this way:

When we were unbelievers, our sins were horrible and deserved the wrath of God. We all agree about this.

But now, when we are his children, ….. oh my, it’s MUCH WORSE that I sin because I have the Bible, the indwelling Spirit, spiritual gifts, so much knowledge of God and his ways. Do we now think we can bear the displeasure of God towards our sins? It should be much worse displeasure b/c of all He’s done for us!

So, yes, our sins now can displease God. But it was poured onto Christ on the cross.

I’m not sure what “bearing” displeasure means in this context. But in any case, it’s not the same as simply feeling it, which is what I’m talking about. Displeasure expressed in punishment? We’re already agreed that Christ has taken care of that for those who believe.

Anne, I’d still like to see your thoughts on two things that are pivotal on this topic:

  1. What about the Scriptures that clearly indicate that both God and His children ought to be displeased when we sin?
  2. What about simultaneity?

Much of what you’re saying still seems to assume that we must feel less pleasure and joy whenever we feel more displeasure or shame. But this is not the case. In fact, meditating on some of the great hymns (not to mention the Psalms) shows that these two feed each other and are both part of godly affections and attitudes.

Again, I’ll return to the journey analogy. On a long journey to visit a loved one, I’m simultaneously sad that I still have so many miles to go, yet glad about the miles already behind me. Neither diminishes the other. They feed eachother. I’m only sad about the distance because of the joy I anticipate at the destination. And the the toil of travel and pain of separation will make the time together that much sweeter. But the joy is dominant because of the bigger picture. The all-encompassing reality that frames both the suffering and the joy is the loving relationship that makes the whole journey happen. There is a loved one I am going to see.

In the Christian life, our displeasure (and God’s) toward sin feeds the greater joy of knowing that sin is already paid for, that our glorification is certain, that we are the recipients of indescribable generosity, that we are adopted into an irreversible kinship of great blessing, that an incorruptible inheritance is reserved for us. None of this diminishes our grief and displeasure over sin; it puts it in a context of deeper joy.

That joy—far from diluting our drive to do right—intensifies the fact that we ought not to sin (Rom. 6:2, Heb. 12:1-2) and ought to try harder to walk worthy of our calling. So both the pleasure of what we already have/who we are, as well as the displeasure of the ways we still fail, serve to compel us to “try harder.”

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

Nice little post at Challies that seems relevant

http://www.challies.com/christian-living/the-joy-of-not-sinning

Views expressed are always my own and not my employer's, my church's, my family's, my neighbors', or my pets'. The house plants have authorized me to speak for them, however, and they always agree with me.

that article. I have sometimes wondered the same question—why He didn’t remove the sin at salvation–would save us all a lot of trouble. But then I see that he’s not afraid of my sins but uses it all for teaching me.

I’d like to know what “trying harder” looks like for you. Let’s say a person wants to have good prayer life. So, how you do go about thinking about that and doing it, in the ‘trying harder’ mode?