Would you attend?

no. The same answer to the question about my Sally getting “hitched” to Fiona,

I’d skip it

How have you handled family gatherings up to this point? I’m curious, because I was thinking about the long-term ramifications of the situation. My answer would be to skip the wedding, but that would not be a surprise to the pair in my case. I would have been treating this as an illegitimate relationship all along. While the “partner” might not have been automatically banned from my home, I would not have permitted the relationship into the home - i.e. separate sleeping quarters, no displays of affection, etc. My son would know I love him, and I would be kind and respectful to the “partner”, but I would have made it absolutely clear that the relationship would not be accepted in my home - ever. I would also make it clear that if my son chose this lifestyle over his relationship with his family, that was entirely on him; he would not be permitted to try shifting the blame to me.

I probably would attend. Not because I believe in what he is doing, but because I love him and want him to repent of his sin. Being there might be enough of a rebuke to make everyone else uncomfortable.

To twist the question a little - if your daughter got pregnant out of wedlock, would you still want to be a grandparent to the out of wedlock child? Would you still love your daughter regardless of her choices? Or would you cut both of them off as well?

Seems to me the situations are similar. We need to break this separate category of ‘homosexual sin’ and put it in the category of ‘sin’. God is angry with ALL sin, and we have no right draw a line between ‘non-homosexual sins’ and then ‘homosexual sins’.

This is a coupling ceremony where the participants would want to express their mutual commitment to each other in memorable ways to cement and reinforce their bond. I would be personally opposed to this in principle, so, would not attend. If the relationship is at this stage, I also would not rebuke my hypothetical son when he was alone, it would be too late. I would probably only be able to pray for both of them.

“Ephraim is joined to idols, leave him alone” seems to be a consistent principle continued in Jesus and Paul. I would let my son go his own way and probably only pray for him.

On the other hand, if people want to have gay marriage, I will not lobby against it. I am looking for a new earth. This seems to be the example of Paul who lived in a much worse cultural environment than ours. Paul did not lobby the local tribune or organize believers to change “outside society”.

I had a similar situation when my sister was remarried after a divorce. I went but in retrospect I regret it.

I regret that since their marriage was not legitimate. For the same reason I would not attend in your situation since I would be joining in a celebration of something sinful. I would personally try to sit down and have a straightforward and loving conversation in which I explained why we would not be attending.

[Kevin Miller]

Chip Van Emmerik wrote:

I would also make it clear that if my son chose this lifestyle over his relationship with his family, that was entirely on him; he would not be permitted to try shifting the blame to me.

But you would be the one making those rules. Why wouldn’t you be comfortable with the blame? What kind of damage would be done by having the partner visit your home? Would you also be uncomfortable with having a family gathering at a restaurant with the partner also being at the restaurant? If you cannot handle being around the partner, then your son is going to figure that you can’t handle being around him either, and the relationship will be severed. If you are okay with that, fine, but I personally am not, so my son’s partner has been invited to family gatherings. We HAVE had discussions, with the partner present, concerning our objections to homosexual activity, so the partner knows where we stand, but we don’t feel those discussions need to take place at every family gathering.

I am in a similar situation with my sister. She is in a same-sex relationship and our father (who attends a Fundamentalist, separatist church in Louisville KY) has cut off all relations with her. Because I invited her to attend my graduation with her “partner”, he is extending that shunning to me. Caveat - I believe they have spoken on the phone, but I have not spoken to him since he said he would not come to my graduation if she was invited. He refused to let her and her partner come to a family reunion, and said the even though they would be staying at a hotel for my graduation, he could not stand to be in the same hotel as she was because he knew that “they” were together. They have NEVER physically pushed their relationship - anyone who saw them would think they were nothing more than good friends - and in fact she doesn’t like flamboyant or radicals any more than I do. I have lost my relationship with my father because I reached out to my sister. Sis and I have had many, many long conversations about her various relationships (she knows I do NOT approve), but she said that because I have not outright rejected her has my father has, she is willing to listen to me, and comes to me when she is struggling. The door is being kept open for me to speak truth into her life, and I’m not about to slam it shut as my father did.

If either of the two claims to be saved, what role does 1 Corinthians 5:11 have in this decision?

[Jay]

I probably would attend. Not because I believe in what he is doing, but because I love him and want him to repent of his sin. Being there might be enough of a rebuke to make everyone else uncomfortable.

To twist the question a little - if your daughter got pregnant out of wedlock, would you still want to be a grandparent to the out of wedlock child? Would you still love your daughter regardless of her choices? Or would you cut both of them off as well?

Seems to me the situations are similar. We need to break this separate category of ‘homosexual sin’ and put it in the category of ‘sin’. God is angry with ALL sin, and we have no right draw a line between ‘non-homosexual sins’ and then ‘homosexual sins’.

Kevin and Terri,

You missed part of my comment. What I said was:

While the “partner” might not have been automatically banned from my home, I would not have permitted the relationship into the home - i.e. separate sleeping quarters, no displays of affection, etc.

Notice the “might” in there? I would permit any of my son’s friends into my home until they decide to make an issue about protesting my beliefs.

But in my case, not only has my sister been “banned”, but I have as well, since I won’t treat her the same way my father does. And she has never made an issue of protesting my beliefs or my father’s beliefs. Her philosophy, wrong that it is, is live and let live.

[Chip Van Emmerik]

Apples to oranges, Jay. The gay child is living in continual sin while the unwed mother/daughter is suffering the consequences of previous sin.

I have in mind - right now - a young lady that grew up in my home church about ten years ago but who left the church (and the faith? - not sure on that) to move in with her boyfriend who is unsaved when she turned nineteen. She just had their son about two weeks ago, and the parents are welcoming in the unsaved boyfriend as their son-in-law even though they aren’t married. I sent her a note on FB to congratulate her on the baby, even though I haven’t seen her in years.

Chip, you should have enough experience to know this happens…regularly. A lot more regularly than a son moving in with his male lover.

Jay,

That changes the scenario. You only mentioned the baby in the first post, not the ongoing relationship. I would treat the new scenario just like I described in the original situation. However, i would not disown the baby just because it had been conceived in sin.

No, I would not attend.

A Christian cannot treat gay marriage as legitimate.

As the classic Book of Common Prayer text encapsulates, wedding attendees are more than spectators. Consider the lines, “Dearly beloved: We have come together in the presence of God to witness and bless the joining together of this man and this woman in Holy Matrimony”; and “Holy Scripture commends it [marriage] to be honored among all people”; and also “If any of you can show just cause why they may not lawfully be married, speak now; or else for ever hold your peace.”

Wedding attendees legitimize the marriage. You can’t do that.

I would, however, echo what Chip said about continuing to love and reach out to both your son and the partner. They are still persons in the image of God. How, specifically, you handle the combination of love, continuing family bonds, rebuke, etc., will be a wisdom issue. Obviously you won’t be able to have a full-on debate on the question at every gathering. Some people may interpret your kindness to sinners as approval of the sin (cf. Teri Ploski’s posts), but you can’t help that.

Regarding your son’s status as believer or unbeliever…it’s a separate issue from the original post…but I thought I’d respond:

I’d be careful about using the phrase, “God refused to grant salvation based on foreseen defection.” Better to say the original calling on the Lord was not as real as it seemed. The seeds that fell on stony ground looked promising, too. Only God knows a person’s heart, but I think Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 5 would have us treat an unrepentant sinner as an unbeliever by default, as far as the visible church goes. I am so sorry—it must vex your heart so much. Don’t stop praying for and caring for your son. A close connection of mine had shut down all contact with her family because of her own homosexuality, but after years of our praying for her, she finally reestablished contact on her own. The Hound of Heaven can chase through any thicket.

Michael addressed Kevin’s post, but I wanted to add my agreement. Scripture is clear that salvation is not something that can be lost once granted. However, scripture is equally clear that where there is true life, there will be ongoing signs of life. We are reminded that those who begin among us but go out from among us do so because, despite appearances, they never really belonged to us. (I John 2:19). We are the ones who err when we want to cherry pick the promises of scripture we are going to believe in order to support our own desired ends. Also, for Kevin, based on the way you described your memory, “I was around when he made his salvation decision as a child,” I would like to commend a small book called Decisional Regeneration written by James E. Adams for your consideration. I believe it would shed further light on this conversation.

[Kevin Miller]

At salvation, we do not become sinless, so how much sin, and for what time period, is needed to “cancel out” the ongoing signs of life? Only God knows the heart.

God knows the heart. It’s true. It’s also a truism that might distract from the practical / existential needs of the visible church. The church does not need to weigh a person’s good deeds and bad deeds in the balance to make a determination. But in Matthew 18, the repeated phrase, “if he will not listen,” gives us a good idea of when we should (with regret) flip our assumptions about a person and act accordingly. “Let him be as a Gentile and tax collector” does not translate to “kick sand on him at the beach,” but it does mean, “Treat him as an object of evangelism [and not a wayward brother].”