Does Regeneration Precede Faith?

By Jerry Shugart Mon, 01/04/2010 - 12:50pm
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Jerry Shugart
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It is not until the sinner is regenerated by the Spirit of God that he can understand the things of God:

"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God" (1 Cor.2:11-12).

Some sincere Christians teach that the sinner is regenerated by receiving the Spirit "before" he believes. But Paul makes it plain that the receiving of the Spirit happens when the sinner believes. He asked the believers at Galatia the following rhetorical question:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).

Of course the answer to Paul's question is that the unregenerate man receives the Spirit "by the hearing of faith," and not before.

This is made even more evident when we consider the words spoken by the Lord Jesus here:

"It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

According to Him the words which He spoke were "spirit" and "life." Those who believed the Lord Jesus' words passed from spiritual death unto spirital life, as witnessed by His words here:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24).

Even today the gospel comes in the Holy Spirit:

"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance" (1 Thess.1:5).

In His grace,
Jerry

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Mon, 01/11/2010 - 3:24pm
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mattmo812
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Quote: Jerry Shugart: It is
Quote:

Jerry Shugart: It is not until the sinner is regenerated by the Spirit of God that he can understand the things of God:

I definitely agree with that statement. How can a sinner believe when he cannot understand the things of God? Don't you think that it is necessary for the Spirit to quicken the heart of an unbeliever so that he may understand and believe? John 3:3 says that a man cannot even see the Kingdom of God, let alone believe, unless he is born again. If so, then regeneration must come before faith. It's not as if there is a time gap in between regeneration and faith, it happens simultaneously at the moment of conversion. It is in logical order, not chronological order that regeneration comes before faith. Does that make sense?

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Mon, 01/11/2010 - 10:31pm
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JohnBrian
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Jerry Shugart wrote: Some
Jerry Shugart wrote:

Some sincere Christians teach that the sinner is regenerated by receiving the Spirit "before" he believes.

While I affirm that regeneration precedes faith, I've never actually heard that the Spirit is given at regeneration. I understand regeneration to mean that the stony heart is replaced with a fleshly heart, so that he can believe and be saved.

Lazarus had to be made alive in the grave in order that he might leave the grave. Upon leaving the grave his grave clothes were removed. He had no ability to bring himself to life, but when Jesus commanded him to come out, the command caused physical life. He then had the ability to walk out of the tomb and be restored to his sisters.

If you have some links to those that state the spirit is given before belief, would you provide them for our benefit?

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Mon, 01/11/2010 - 10:34pm
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Jerry Shugart
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The Simplicity That Is In Christ
mattmo812 wrote:

I definitely agree with that statement. How can a sinner believe when he cannot understand the things of God? Don't you think that it is necessary for the Spirit to quicken the heart of an unbeliever so that he may understand and believe? John 3:3 says that a man cannot even see the Kingdom of God, let alone believe, unless he is born again. If so, then regeneration must come before faith. It's not as if there is a time gap in between regeneration and faith, it happens simultaneously at the moment of conversion. It is in logical order, not chronological order that regeneration comes before faith. Does that make sense?

Sorry, mattmo812, it does not make sense. The Apostle Paul states in no uncertain terms that the sinner receives the Spirit of God by the hearing of faith. So it is impossible that logically the sinner is regenerated before faith. Regeneration cannot happen apart from faith so therefore logically it is impossible that regeneration can come before faith.

Look at the Lord Jesus' own words as to what brings life:

"It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

Could that be any plainer?

His words provide a perfect example of the "simplicity that is in Christ":

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Cor.11:3).

In His grace,
Jerry

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Mon, 01/11/2010 - 10:56pm
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Jerry Shugart
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Westminister Confession of Faith
JohnBrian wrote:

If you have some links to those that state the spirit is given before belief, would you provide them for our benefit?

JohnBrian, the following is from The Westminster Confession of Faith, Part X, Number II:

"This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from any thing at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."

Here we can see the idea that first the sinner must be "quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit" which enables him to answer the call. The words in regard to "enabling him to answer the call" refers to "believing the gospel." This confession of faith is a Reformed confession of faith.

In His grace,
Jerry

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Tue, 01/12/2010 - 4:54pm
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mattmo812
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I'm with JohnBrian on this

I'm with JohnBrian on this one...I don't think that Regeneration and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit are the same thing. I agree with you that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a result of faith. But that is not regeneration. Regeneration is when God takes a heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh, therefore making the sinner willing to believe.

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Tue, 01/12/2010 - 6:54pm
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Jerry Shugart
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I'm With The Scriptures On This One
mattmo812 wrote:

I'm with JohnBrian on this one...I don't think that Regeneration and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit are the same thing. I agree with you that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a result of faith. But that is not regeneration. Regeneration is when God takes a heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh, therefore making the sinner willing to believe.

Hi Matt,

Let us look at the meaning of the Greek word which is translated "regeneration." It means "new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Certainly the result of the new birth or of being born again is that "God takes a heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh." But that action on the part of God is not the same as being "born of God." Here is how Peter says that one is "born of God":

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever" (1 Pet.1:23).

Peter also wrote the following two verses later to make it plain that his words "word of God" at verse twenty three are in reference to the gospel:

"But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:25).

Peter is obviously referring to the gospel which he preached earlier in the same chapter:

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

The word regeneration" speaks of receiving spiritual life. And that is exactly what the Lord Jesus was speaking of when He uttered the following words:

"It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

The spirit of God cannot be separated from the gospel. They come as one:

"For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake" (1 Thess.1:5).

One must throw reason to the wind in order to assert that the sinner is regenerated prior to him believing the gospel. In order to continue to believe that regeneration precedes faith one must also deny the plain words of the Lord Jesus when He stated in no uncertain terms that His words are spirit and they are life. According to your views the elect has received life before he believes the gospel, and that idea is contradicted by the Scriptures.

In His grace,
Jerry

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Wed, 01/13/2010 - 8:36am
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JohnBrian
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Jerry Shugart wrote: One must
Jerry Shugart wrote:

One must throw reason to the wind in order to assert that the sinner is regenerated prior to him believing the gospel.

We are applying different understandings to the word "regeneration."

You affirm this process: Faith - Salvation/Regeneration.

Calvinists affirm this process: Regeneration - Faith - Salvation.

You, and many others, critique the Calvinist position using your understanding of the term, which would make Calvinism affirm this process: Salvation - Faith - Salvation.

It is not surprising to read critiques of the Calvinist position that wonder why one needs faith if they have already received salvation based on misunderstanding the process of salvation which Calvinism affirms.

I intend to write an article for my blog on the subject of regeneration preceding faith. I will start a new thread on SI to discuss my article as well as post a link to that article here.

Basically I am going to use the story of the raising of Lazarus to show that regeneration must precede faith. In the case of Lazarus his coming to physical life matches perfectly the process of the unregenerate coming to salvation.

p.s. Calvinism affirms that regeneration is accomplished by the word of God, so the verses you quoted in your recent post do absolutely no harm to the Calvinist position. Truth be told there are no verses in Scripture, when seen in their context, that disprove Calvinism. Calvinists are also "...with the Scripture on this one."

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Fri, 01/15/2010 - 5:53pm
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Alex Guggenheim
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JohnBrian wrote: Basically I
JohnBrian wrote:

Basically I am going to use the story of the raising of Lazarus to show that regeneration must precede faith. In the case of Lazarus his coming to physical life matches perfectly the process of the unregenerate coming to salvation.

I believe I am have come across the use of Lazarus in an attempt to match the process of the unregenerate coming to salvation and remember finding the very fatal flaw in the comparison. However, I don't recall the argument that was made for the comparison sufficiently or my then response but if, before you use it on your blog, you would be willing to offer it here I believe I can challenge you with the lack of appropriate equivocation I noted in the past.

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Fri, 01/15/2010 - 6:09pm
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JohnBrian
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Alex Guggenheim wrote: ...but
Alex Guggenheim wrote:

...but if, before you use it on your blog, you would be willing to offer it here I believe I can challenge you with the lack of appropriate equivocation I noted in the past.

When I post it to my blog you may interact with it there or here. I do not moderate comments on my blog and have no problem with anyone challenging my arguments.

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Fri, 01/15/2010 - 7:22pm
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Alex Guggenheim
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JohnBrian wrote: When I post
JohnBrian wrote:

When I post it to my blog you may interact with it there or here. I do not moderate comments on my blog and have no problem with anyone challenging my arguments.

Good I will do so then and it might be worth importing it here, then for this audience.

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Sat, 01/16/2010 - 12:38am
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Jerry Shugart
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Quickened by the Word and the Spirit
JohnBrian wrote:

p.s. Calvinism affirms that regeneration is accomplished by the word of God, so the verses you quoted in your recent post do absolutely no harm to the Calvinist position.

John Brian, this makes no sense whatsoever. You first argue regeneration precedes faith but now you say that "Calvinism affirms that regeneration is accomplished by the word of God."

Are we to believe that the "word of God" plays a part in the Calvinist's view of regeneration but at the same time the regeneration which happens as a result of the word of God is completely separted from "faith" in that word (since, according to Calvinism, regeneration PRECEDES faith)?

Let us look again at the reformed confession of faith, The Westminster Confession of Faith.

First we see that it states that the Lord calls the elect by His Word and Spirit

"I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace."

Then we see that in order for the elect to answer the call of the Word he first must be "quickened" by the Holy Spirit:

"II. This effectual call is of God's free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man, who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it."

The word "quickened" means "brought to life":

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ" (Eph.2:5);

The Greek word translated "quickened with" is syzōopoieō, and the root of that word (zōopoieō) means "to make alive, give life" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So this confession of faith has the Spirit giving life to those dead in sin before they believe the Word of God. However, by the words of the Lord Jesus we can understand that His words are both spirit and life so therefore no unregenerate person is made alive prior to hearing and believing the Word of God that comes in the gospel:

"It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).

The Reformed confession of faith has the sinner brought to life before faith but according to the Lord Jesus the sinner is not brought to life until faith.

In His grace,
Jerry

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Wed, 01/27/2010 - 6:01pm
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NoahB
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Which Scripture verses, apart

Which Scripture verses, apart from a narrative like that of the Lazarus one, do Calvinists use to support regeneration before faith and salvation? Do Calvinists believe that the "quickened and renewed" part of the Confession is synonymous with being born again, as both deal with new life?

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Fri, 01/29/2010 - 4:09pm
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Jerry Shugart
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The Dead Shall Hear
NoahB wrote:

Which Scripture verses, apart from a narrative like that of the Lazarus one, do Calvinists use to support regeneration before faith and salvation? Do Calvinists believe that the "quickened and renewed" part of the Confession is synonymous with being born again, as both deal with new life?

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Ro.8:7). EPH 2:5

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ" (Eph.2:5).

The Calvinists quote these verses to assert that the "natural man" or "carnal mind" cannot possibly believe the gospel until he is first made alive or regenerated. They say that the dead cannot respond to the gospel, despite the Lord Jesus' own words that they can:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (Jn.5:25).

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Wed, 02/03/2010 - 12:57pm
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JohnBrian
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I have posted my article

I have posted my article titled Regeneration Precedes Faith, and started a new thread on SI to discuss it.

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