BJU to Participate in Intercollegiate Athletics

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Since 5/6/09 22:36:48
782 posts
Participation in

Participation in intercollegiate allows these Christian atheletes to go outside of the holy huddle and show Christ to others. It is also an important part of preparing these young people to live for Christ in the real world. Another great decision coming from the leadership at BJU.

Jim's picture
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Since 5/6/09 20:47:03
6857 posts
On Women's basketball

On Women's basketball

Is there a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skort ]skort for that?

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Since 5/6/09 22:36:48
782 posts
Shorts are more modest than

Shorts are more modest than skorts and a lot less dorky.

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Since 5/22/10 08:31:40
22 posts
I'm glad to hear the JONESES

I'm glad to hear the JONESES are keeping up with the SMITHS. Congratulations to BJU. Go BoJos!

Greg Linscott's picture
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Since 5/22/09 14:27:02
2325 posts
Just one question...

Will they retain the http://www.bju.edu/collegian/index.php?issue=101&article=1050 ]"Swamp Angels" mascot/moniker?

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

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Since 3/1/10 17:41:04
801 posts
Geux Swamp Angels!

Dang it, Greg you beat me to it.

Jim's picture
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Since 5/6/09 20:47:03
6857 posts
Intercollegiate rivalry

The game I would look forward to: BJU vs Liberty in football.

The pre and post game trash talk would be interesting as well! Smile

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Since 10/29/09 09:30:12
335 posts
Even Better: BJU And Liberty Against Baylor

Jim Peet wrote:
The game I would look forward to: BJU vs Liberty in football.

The pre and post game trash talk would be interesting as well! Smile

Then again ... never mind ...

Solo Christo, Soli Deo Gloria, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura
http://healtheland.wordpress.com

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Since 6/2/09 20:49:25
383 posts
Even better

BJU vs. BYU (either in Idaho or Utah)

Jim's picture
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Since 5/6/09 20:47:03
6857 posts
That's the best matchup

Todd Wood wrote:
BJU vs. BYU (either in Idaho or Utah)

They could be in a league:

  • Baylor
  • Liberty
  • Pensacola
  • BYU
  • Etc.
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Since 6/10/09 07:04:11
16 posts
NCCAA

Here is a link to the NCCAA of which BJU is applying to
to join: http://www.thenccaa.org/index.html

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Since 7/31/09 14:33:55
217 posts
Liberty v. BJU

I'm a BJU grad with a son at Liberty. I'm afraid the Liberty v. BJU matchup would have to wait quite a few years, even if BJU ever played football -- Liberty is an NCAA Division I school for football (and other sports). That's a whole different world.

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Since 5/22/10 08:31:40
22 posts
BJU has excellent facilities

BJU has excellent facilities for soccer and basketball.

Joel Tetreau's picture
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Since 5/6/09 22:30:53
652 posts
Good for multiple reasons

What will be fun from a historic point of view is when we have:

BJU vs. Moody (I'll be cheering for BJ - my dad's "alma mater!")

I'm thrilled for multiple reasons - This will be great for BJ, especially the students. This is excellent for the alumni. I actually think that this well help the public image of the university - not that it hasn't been positive in many respects already. This probably is not necesarily a major motivation for the administration, but I personally believe this is great for the continued improved relationships between what I call Type A, B and C fundamentalists. Our theologians know how to get along by way of ETS. Our jocks will be able to get along because of the NCCAA. Now all we have to do is to come up with a group that will allow our musicians to get along........well maybe there's a group that will help the constituencies to get along......well, this is a good start anyway - Outstanding! Hurray for our Team!

Straight Ahead!

jt

Dr. Joel Tetreau serves as Senior Pastor, Southeast Valley Baptist Church (sevbc.org); Regional Coordinator for IBL West (iblministry.com), Board Member & friend for several different ministries;

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Since 6/2/09 20:50:14
57 posts
Dangerous

I hope the tail doesn't start wagging the dog as can be seen in a lot of schools.

It is pathetic if this is what will buy student's and alumni's support for their school.

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Since 5/22/09 14:27:02
2325 posts
Get a handle on things, now...

Ken, they are joining the http://www.thenccaa.org/ NCCAA ... I don't think that it could be said that "the (sports) tail wags the dog" at any of their schools... I went to Faith, which competes in the NCCAA. It gave some students a chance to compete, and others a chance to socialize at the games, but I don't think they even had even minor athletic scholarships (I could be wrong, but I don't think I am). This is not even the NAIA, much less NCAA Division I... They'll be playing people like...

Quote:
Baptist College of Florida
Carver Bible College
Chowan University
Emmanuel College
North Greenville University
Palm Beach Atlantic University
Pensacola Christian College
Southeastern University
Southern Wesleyan University
Truett-McConnell College

Now, I could see some heated rivalries develop with PCC, I suppose. But I doubt it would ever be a "dog-wagged by the tail" scenario- unless there is more to the English Bible Translation Debates than even I am envisioning... ;-)

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

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Since 3/7/11 11:58:55
330 posts
@Greg

Quote:
I don't think they even had even minor athletic scholarships (I could be wrong, but I don't think I am).

You're correct. No athletic scholarships. One year back in the 80s, the Athletic Director gave out one free pair socks to the basketball players. I think he received them as a promo or something. Anyway, the joke that season was in calling them "Scholarship Socks."

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Since 6/30/09 10:23:44
484 posts
NCCAA II

My son, Luke Harding, played four years at third base for the Clearwater Cougars in the NCCAA II. Last year they went to the world series finals in Mason, Ohio and lost the final game 2 to 1. Playing baseball while being a Math major was not an easy task. Looking back on it as a parent I found the collegiate baseball experience to be a very positive and demanding element of his training. He is now married and a full-time seminarian working on his M.Div. I wish he could have had the opportunity to have this same college experience at BJU. I am very glad for future students who can have this experience. I think BJU will start with basketball and soccer and then gradually expand to other sports. Personally, I think they could field an outstanding baseball team in the years ahead. In addition, BJU will be adding an ROTC program. If BJU is able to receive regional accreditation (5-7 year process) in addition to their new venture into intercollegiate sports and ROTC, I believe it will help the school to obtain and retain many new students that otherwise would never attend the school. BJU has excelled academically, musically, in ministry training, and in Christian character development for many decades. Now I think it is opportune for them to expand their training in other fields as well.

By the way, the NCCAA II (the entity to which BJU will belong) is a non-scholarship entity.

Pastor Mike Harding

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Since 9/1/09 10:42:28
6 posts
My son would love to go to

My son would love to go to BJU if they had a baseball team. This is exciting news!

martin

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Since 3/1/10 17:41:04
801 posts
ROTC

Mike,

I think an ROTC program would do very well. My church isn't that far from Quantico, where Marine officers train. We nearly always have several BJU grads in the Marine officers program coming to our church. They tell me anecdotally that they think BJU sends more graduates to Quantico than any other school by far (per capita).

Shayne

Rob Fall's picture
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Since 6/2/09 22:22:22
899 posts
Then BJ would definitely

Then BJ would definitely qualify to be The Citadel on Wade Hampton Blvd. :)

Shaynus wrote:
Mike,

I think an ROTC program would do very well. My church isn't that far from Quantico, where Marine officers train. We nearly always have several BJU grads in the Marine officers program coming to our church. They tell me anecdotally that they think BJU sends more graduates to Quantico than any other school by far (per capita).

Shayne

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

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Since 6/30/09 10:23:44
484 posts
Ditto

Shay,

I agree with you wholeheartedly about the ROTC program. Our military officers would greatly benefit by a BJU education.

Ken,

BJU will emphasize discipleship in their sports progam from the selection of godly and skilled coaches to the opportunity of witnessing when on the road. The administration will place some necessary parameters regarding home games in order to assure a positive spiritual environment. Sports, like others avenues, can have its pitfalls. However, I have confidence in the administration and faculty of the school that they will make every legitimate attempt to do these ventures for the glory of God and the good of their students.

Pastor Mike Harding

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Since 6/2/09 20:50:14
57 posts
Keep the emphasis in the right place

I'm just saying that there are dangers involved because sports is an area where a lot of people change their priorities and let their sin nature come out over sports.

"This school has my inter-collegiant sport so it must be God's will for me to go there."

"My school beat your school by one point in tag team tiddly winks so we are better than you."

"Our athletic programis an evangelistic out reach even though we only play other "Christian" colleges".

"I don't know how many guys we had go to the mission field but we had one guy go to play right field for the Pittsburgh Pirates".

If you don't think there is a high risk for people to have a higher priority on sports than essential things then tell me why there have been 4 times as many responses about BJ sport vs. BJ accreditation? Did my degree just become more valuable because of a proposed sports program or accreditation?

Equipping to do the work of the Lord better not be eclipesed by equipping for the big game on Saturday.

I will retreat to my bunker for the incoming round of basket balls.

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Since 3/1/10 17:41:04
801 posts
The Citadel

Rob Fall wrote:
Then BJ would definitely qualify to be The Citadel on Wade Hampton Blvd. :)
Shaynus wrote:
Mike,

I think an ROTC program would do very well. My church isn't that far from Quantico, where Marine officers train. We nearly always have several BJU grads in the Marine officers program coming to our church. They tell me anecdotally that they think BJU sends more graduates to Quantico than any other school by far (per capita).

Shayne

Actually my Marine friends think BJU sends more than the Citadel to the Marines. Other services may vary. Crazy!

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Since 5/22/09 14:27:02
2325 posts
Frankly?

Quote:
If you don't think there is a high risk for people to have a higher priority on sports than essential things then tell me why there have been 4 times as many responses about BJ sport vs. BJ accreditation? Did my degree just become more valuable because of a proposed sports program or accreditation?
Reason? It's easier to make quick jokes about sports than it is about accreditation.

What you say about sports is true, yes- But I would say that increasing from an inter-mural program to competing against the Brothers of Chef Boyardee University isn't going to increase those pitfalls in any significant way. I would also tend to doubt that an NCCAA program would have much possibility of producing even minor-league talent, much less supplying players to the major leagues... If BJU had had no traditions like Turkey Bowl previous to this, I think your concerns would be a little more in order. But they have state of the art facilities, regular competitions, and so forth. This is just another of the same kind. Some will care about it more than they ought, and some will not even know anything is different. I know when I attended Faith (admittedly as a married student), I attended one athletic competition total in our time there (and paid about a much attention to the pep band as I did the action on the basketball court).

And besides, your comments about knowing who is a MLB athlete vs missionaries produced isn't exactly a fair assessment of things. BJU may not have produced athletes of that caliber, but your alumni has its share of notable (and notorious) figures. You (figuratively) can list your prominent politicians and business people, or prominent musicians, or what have you, and generally more quickly than you can graduates who serve in missions. Missions and ministerial types are okay with that, though (or certainly ought to be)- we're not in it for the recognition, and the people who get noticed in the contexts we're discussing are for the most part the exceptions rather than the rule- especially from schools in the category of places like BJU.

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

Rob Fall's picture
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Since 6/2/09 22:22:22
899 posts
Actually, my comment is based

Actually, my comment is based on onwe of my "private" jokes. IMO. schools like BJ and Maranatha are leadership schools just like the service academies. So, I joke about MBBC being West Point on the Rock River and BJU being The Citadel on Wade Hampton.

For the sake of this thread, MBBC has plated intervarsity sports since its inception in 1968. I always thought it was cool to re-fight the Thirty Years War on the gridiron when we played Northwestern (Lutheran) College.

Shaynus wrote:
Rob Fall wrote:
Then BJ would definitely qualify to be The Citadel on Wade Hampton Blvd. :)
Shaynus wrote:
Mike,

I think an ROTC program would do very well. My church isn't that far from Quantico, where Marine officers train. We nearly always have several BJU grads in the Marine officers program coming to our church. They tell me anecdotally that they think BJU sends more graduates to Quantico than any other school by far (per capita).

Shayne

Actually my Marine friends think BJU sends more than the Citadel to the Marines. Other services may vary. Crazy!

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

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Since 7/21/09 22:44:31
675 posts
Concern about the concern

I have always been more than a little concerned with the concern some fundamentalists have about athletics in their schools.
First of all, keep in mind that the level of intercollegiate athletics we are talking about here in this instance (in terms of the program) is frankly slightly above high school -- and in many cases, it is really well below high school.
(If a student is coming from a large high school with a full athletic program, especially a viable football program, it is definitely below that.)
Although a program like this will certainly cost the school more financially than it directly earns back, it is basically a way for the school to promote itself, generate goodwill and publicity, provide a means for kids to get some exercise and enhance the social atmosphere on campus. That's about it.
You really have to get above NCAA (not NCCAA) Division III before these factors begin to change significantly and you become inherently in danger of "the tail wagging the dog." Of course, there are exceptions and examples of gross violations, but those are not the norm. (There are also examples of Christian schools who do a marvelous job with their athletic program and make it a shining jewel.)
I commend BJU for taking this step forward. I just wish they had started bigger. In my mind, you really don't qualify to say you have a sports program unless you have a football program. 8-)
Also, I am always disheartened by the call for concern and restraint that we all as fundamentalists are supposed to have about the dangers of sports. The Apostle Paul did not promote that attitude in 1 Cor. 9:24-27. Sounds to me like he was striving to win. How then did this thinking get to be part of the fabric of fundamentalism?
Frankly, there is more danger in teaching kids, "It's OK if you lose, Jesus still loves you!" than there is if we, heaven forbid, fill a park with fans who come to cheer on Alma Mater in football.
(And you can call me names if you want to, but this ain't Europe and soccer just ain't the same :X.)

The views I express are purely my own. However, I am happy to promote the great ministries with which I work: I minister for www.SermonAudio.com/Whitcomb. I do freelance writing for www.RegularBaptistPress.org. I speak through www.IMISOS.org.

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Since 2/19/10 12:33:22
1003 posts
mixed feelings

As an alum, I am all for BJU succeeding. I worry about this decision because of the attitudes we all seem to share to one degree or another when it comes to sports. When I was in school, there was a constant problem with one or two groups looking down on the rest of us because of their sports prowess. My kids tell me that the problem still exists to this day in the intramural program. I can hardly imagine it becoming any less when the 'elite athletes' of the school make the school team, while the rest of the 'peons' just play 'intramural'. I'm really not sure how this is a step forward, spiritually speaking.

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

Greg Linscott's picture
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Since 5/22/09 14:27:02
2325 posts
Who has the problem?

Quote:
When I was in school, there was a constant problem with one or two groups looking down on the rest of us because of their sports prowess. My kids tell me that the problem still exists to this day in the intramural program.

How exactly does this "problem" manifest itself? I'd be curious. I played some sports in HS, but only because our Christian day school was too small to cut anyone. I'm definitely not speaking as a "jock." But if the more athletically inclined want to look down their noses at others, well, so what? Why do those not as athletically inclined care? Isn't it as much the problem of those who let it be a problem? I mean, would anyone care if the mechanics students scoffed at those who couldn't tell a spark plug from a cylinder? What difference does it make that the debate team thinks the rest of the campus is a bunch of intellectual dimwits? If there was such an attitude with anyone (athletes or otherwise) at FBBC- I neither knew nor cared. Then again, I was a married student. Smile But this attitude of competing for prominence takes more than the cocky victors insufferably strutting their stuff. The "little people" have to cater to them (or resent them, as the case might be). Most of us 40 and over today don't really care if the guy next to us is better at some game than we are (I know I don't). That's something the under-40 set will have to learn, eventually, too. I don't think having an intercollegiate program of the scale BJU is entering is going to really affect that in any significant way one way or the other.

Besides, Don is just bitter they aren't fielding a hockey team or competitive curling, eh? Smile

Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN

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Since 7/21/09 22:44:31
675 posts
Don, you answered your own question

Don Johnson wrote:
My kids tell me that the problem still exists to this day in the intramural program. I can hardly imagine it becoming any less when the 'elite athletes' of the school make the school team, while the rest of the 'peons' just play 'intramural'. I'm really not sure how this is a step forward, spiritually speaking.

It is not a step forward or backward, spiritually speaking. The problem already exists, and will continue to exist. The problem is in the heart of man.

Sports won't fix that, only reveal it.

Experiences learned within the sports program under good Christian coaches -- now that can begin to fix it.

The views I express are purely my own. However, I am happy to promote the great ministries with which I work: I minister for www.SermonAudio.com/Whitcomb. I do freelance writing for www.RegularBaptistPress.org. I speak through www.IMISOS.org.

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Since 2/19/10 12:33:22
1003 posts
Hey!

Greg Linscott wrote:
Besides, Don is just bitter they aren't fielding a hockey team or competitive curling, eh? Smile

You've left preachin' and gone to meddlin'

Maranatha!
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3

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Since 6/2/09 17:11:19
91 posts
Already happens.

Don Johnson wrote:
As an alum, I am all for BJU succeeding. I worry about this decision because of the attitudes we all seem to share to one degree or another when it comes to sports. When I was in school, there was a constant problem with one or two groups looking down on the rest of us because of their sports prowess. My kids tell me that the problem still exists to this day in the intramural program. I can hardly imagine it becoming any less when the 'elite athletes' of the school make the school team, while the rest of the 'peons' just play 'intramural'. I'm really not sure how this is a step forward, spiritually speaking.

Quite frankly, this already happens within other areas of the school. When I was there, some Bible majors looked down on the rest of us because of their theological prowess. We just didn't measure up to their spiritualness because we were not going into "ministry." So whether it is sports, or Bible majors, or tiddlywinks, you are going to have that issue. People just need to get over themselves and the rest just need to ignore the idiots that think they are better than everyone else.

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Since 6/29/09 22:07:22
119 posts
How will intramural change?

I'm wondering how this will change the dynamics of the intramural athletics. Will the intercollegiate athletes have time to practice with their societies' teams and play in the games? When I was there, debaters frequently did both, but scheduling time for two debate partners to work together is easier than scheduling a whole soccer team.

I have no opinion either way. Just wondering out loud.

Michael Osborne
Philadelphia, PA

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Since 6/30/09 10:23:44
484 posts
Squeeze

Michael,

To answer your question, intramurals will still be in place throughout the school. Their schedule, however, may be slightly "squeezed". Those who are playing on the intercollegiate team, however, will not be able to play intramurals in that particular sport. NCCAAII rules would prohibit it. If "John" is playing soccer for the BJU team, he won't be able to play soccer for his society "Pa Jammas".

Pastor Mike Harding

Rob Fall's picture
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Since 6/2/09 22:22:22
899 posts
Back in the Day

IIRC, in its Florida incarnation, Bob Jones College played inter-varsity football. That is until Senior got wind of gamblers taking bets on BJC. Again, IIRC, Monroe Parker was a player on the team.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

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Since 5/22/10 08:31:40
22 posts
I remember Dr. Bob Jones Sr

I remember Dr. Bob Jones Sr telling the students about the gambling problem. The Swamp Foxes must have been a powerful team. Nevertheless, I don't believe gambling on BJU games would be a problem today.

Rob Fall's picture
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Since 6/2/09 22:22:22
899 posts
I agree it won't be a problem

I agree it won't be a problem in 2011 and forward. However, it does mean the school's founder saw no problems with initially having inter-varsity sports.

fjbarnes wrote:
I remember Dr. Bob Jones Sr telling the students about the gambling problem. The Swamp Foxes must have been a powerful team. Nevertheless, I don't believe gambling on BJU games would be a problem today.

Hoping to shed more light than heat..

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Since 6/2/09 08:08:04
885 posts
The Swamp Angel Legacy

They were called the Swamp Angels. They participated in other sports as well. All games were home games and much of their competition was against high schools and smaller junior colleges. Dan Turner gives a good account in his "Standing Without Apology."

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

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Since 6/2/09 13:04:13
1741 posts
Ron, I thought you played for

Ron, I thought you played for the swamp angels? Seems like I heard that somewhere.

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Since 6/2/09 08:08:04
885 posts
You're confused

Larry wrote:
Ron, I thought you played for the swamp angels? Seems like I heard that somewhere.

No, Larry. I fought with the Swamp "Fox".

"Some things are of that nature as to make one's fancy chuckle, while his heart doth ache." John Bunyan

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Since 6/2/09 13:04:13
1741 posts
Oops ... sorry to

Oops ... sorry to underestimate you ... I feel horrible now.

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Since 5/22/10 08:31:40
22 posts
Ok, it's time for some humor.

Ok, it's time for some humor. According to the late Dr. Gilbert Stenholm, Dr. Bob Sr. once owned a dog named Satan. I doubt if the pet ever became the Bob Jones College team mascot.
Ok, back to the previous discussion.