Marks Of The False Teachers Among Independent Baptists--Part 3 Noting The Examples Of Hyles, Schaap, and Sexton
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Something a more experienced pastor shared with me on the version issue that I found valuable in thinking through the practical implications… is the matter addressed in their doctrinal statement or not? A preference, even a strong one, can be covered in a policy statement establishing a standard text for a ministry, even covering the reasons one is convinced of the validity of their conclusion. Spelling it out in a doctrinal statement, though, does more than establish practice, but also speaks to the level those who conclude differently are considered to be in error- not to mention that one is including conclusions that require more than Scripture itself to arrive at.
Regarding Sexton, specifically- at this point, his church does address the matter as an issue of doctrine. I would find that enough of a reason to avoid most partnerships, if for no other reason than I would think it would be difficult for them to work alongside someone they have determined to be in doctrinal error, since I use something other than a KJV.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
[Lee]Lee,Does anyone here have an issue with the King James Version being an excellent sample of the preserved Word of God in English? I would think that 200 plus years of practical exclusivity in the English speaking church would allow us to agree at least on that.
I would agree with your statement as far as it goes. When I argue against its use, it from the position Alex O states. It’s a beautiful translation, but it’s not a very good translation to use today. I was raised from birth on the KJ and used it exclusively until about the 2nd or 3rd year of my pastorate. Then, almost 10 years ago I switched to the NKJV. Then about 3 years ago I switched to the ESV. Now, despite nearly 40 years of using the KJ, it is painful to try to go back to it. When I fill pulpits in churches that still use the KJ, I respect their autonomy and preach in their pulpits from the KJ. However, if anyone asks, I strongly recommend moving to a modern version. Within IFB circles, you can still find many people who use and love the KJ, but for outreach and discipleship of new believers in an increasingly pagan America, the KJ is almost (still scripture and still more profitable than having nothing) more of a hindrance than a help.
Why is it that my voice always seems to be loudest when I am saying the dumbest things?
I’m with the others here. I agree that the KJV was greatly used to preserve God’s word in English, but for use with evangelism today, it’s really not the easiest for people to understand.
Personally, I still use the KJV myself, even though I’m in an ESV church. Since I grew up in churches that used it, I am comfortable with its language, and I think that’s largely the reason many of my age in the pews still use and prefer it — they are also comfortable with it. Reading from it “feels like” church. It’s the one I use for memorization, and I still have trouble doing responsive readings in our church when the newer text conflicts with what I learned and know.
But that’s just the problem — do we really want our churches to minister only to people of an older generation who are more comfortable with that English? If we continue to insist on using archaic language (and thereby insist that the newer generation does too) we will eventually realize we are becoming extinct when the few people interesting in attending church at all would rather attend a church with language they understand. Much as I love the KJV, I don’t really want to be there.
Dave Barnhart
That is an excellent way to think of it and one I had not really considered.
[Greg Linscott]Something a more experienced pastor shared with me on the version issue that I found valuable in thinking through the practical implications… is the matter addressed in their doctrinal statement or not? A preference, even a strong one, can be covered in a policy statement establishing a standard text for a ministry, even covering the reasons one is convinced of the validity of their conclusion. Spelling it out in a doctrinal statement, though, does more than establish practice, but also speaks to the level those who conclude differently are considered to be in error- not to mention that one is including conclusions that require more than Scripture itself to arrive at.
Regarding Sexton, specifically- at this point, his church does address the matter as an issue of doctrine. I would find that enough of a reason to avoid most partnerships, if for no other reason than I would think it would be difficult for them to work alongside someone they have determined to be in doctrinal error, since I use something other than a KJV.
Maybe I wasn’t clear. I was not asking whether it was the best translation/version for use with the masses in 21st century America. That is an entirely different question. I was asking if we agree that it is a reliable, accurate translation, an example of the Word of God preserved for the English speaking world. That it is not a bastard child translated to advance some anti-scriptural agenda as some English translations have proven to be?
If this were Germany, I might ask the same thing about the Luther translation (which, BTW, I know little about; it is the only German version I know).
Is it or is it not a good sample, example, representative (or whatever synonym you choose) of inspired Scripture preserved and translated into English?
Lee
[Lee]Is [the KJV] or is it not a good sample, example, representative (or whatever synonym you choose) of inspired Scripture preserved and translated into English?
I thought I answered it here.
I would say “yes”. There is nothing wrong per se with the KJV .. it’s just in an English that is not spoken / written / read anymore.
I am seriously pondering proposing a version shift in my church in a few years to either the NKJV or the ESV. We’ll see. Anybody else done this, or had problems doing it?!
Tyler is a pastor in Olympia, WA and works in State government.
Switched to NKJV when I came 6 years ago. No issues at all, but much of the groundwork had pretty much been laid by predecessors, and indirectly the influence of Central Seminary. The adult SS teacher when I came was using the NIV to publicly reference as a comparison, and I had a fair number of non-native English speakers, too, so it wasn’t a hard sell. They had also already been using the NKJV in Awana.
Greg Linscott
Marshall, MN
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