"The first thing people often think of when they hear Mars Hill Music is that we're a group of punk rock Calvinists"

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SharperIron's picture
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Punk Rock Calvinists?

I think he has cornered the market. (It may be a very small market.)

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ahh...

ahh.. yes... CCM... the people responsible for removing pure, reverential worship from the churches. gotta love 'em.

Joel Shaffer's picture
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Quote: ahh.. yes... CCM...

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ahh.. yes... CCM... the people responsible for removing pure, reverential worship from the churches. gotta love 'em.

So you are saying that there is no pure, reverential worship within CCM? Quite the broad-brush stroke stereotype wouldn't you say?

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Joel Shaffer wrote: So you

Joel Shaffer wrote:
So you are saying that there is no pure, reverential worship within CCM? Quite the broad-brush stroke stereotype wouldn't you say?

No, I'm sure reverence is a strong part of it. People have been reverencing idols for millennia.

Lee

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Quote:No, I'm sure reverence

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No, I'm sure reverence is a strong part of it. People have been reverencing idols for millennia.

By the way, I was referring to CCM as a music style, not the Chrisian entertainment musicians from NashVegas....I mean Nashville. As a former Christian Rock musician, I would agree that much of the Christian entertainment artists have become idols. In fact that is one of the reasons I left the band I was in. After concerts, I would talk to teenagers and young adults in the audience, trying to strike up conversations about Jesus and/or about urban missions. The guys from the audience only wanted to talk about how to start their own band, while girls would come up to our band and ask if our drummer or bass player had a girlfriend. They clearly came to be entertained and Jesus wasn't really on their mind, despite the strong message of our music. Now this didn't happen all the time, but it was enough for me to realize I was wasting my time.

As for contemporary praise and worship choruses, there are many which are pure and reverent, just like there are many wonderful hymns that are pure and reverent as well. I think we should be able to have Biblical discernment and eat the chicken and spit out the bones without broad-brush stereotyping.

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sadly

sadly, because of the style of music that most so-called christian music groups use, people are paying more attention to the cool beats, or the melodies, than they are the lyrics. but the same can be said of secular music. very few people really hear the lyrics anymore. music has just become a background music or soundtrack to whatever we happen to be doing. modern christian music- if it can be called that- does not cause me to lift my thoughts to God, or to think about His excellencies. they cause me to think about the cool singers, or the talented musicians, or about myself, and how i am feeling as i drive down the highway.

alex o.'s picture
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music and thoughts

christian cerna wrote:
sadly, because of the style of music that most so-called christian music groups use, people are paying more attention to the cool beats, or the melodies, than they are the lyrics. but the same can be said of secular music. very few people really hear the lyrics anymore. music has just become a background music or soundtrack to whatever we happen to be doing. modern christian music- if it can be called that- does not cause me to lift my thoughts to God, or to think about His excellencies. they cause me to think about the cool singers, or the talented musicians, or about myself, and how i am feeling as i drive down the highway.

then thought can be controlled by just the type of music? this is what you are saying.

folks who have studied persuasion would disagree with you. music is emotive probably to a degree but they don't cause certain thoughts. only you control and are responsible for your thoughts.

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Clarifying Questions...

christian cerna wrote:
modern christian music- if it can be called that- does not cause me to lift my thoughts to God, or to think about His excellencies. they cause me to think about the cool singers, or the talented musicians, or about myself, and how i am feeling as i drive down the highway.

Christian...a couple of quick questions to better understand your position...
Do you have biblical principles that guide your position on music or is it more a strong preference?
Do you listen to modern Christian music? Your frustration with it would lead to believe that you may not...but then you say you listen to it as you drive down the highway. Just wondering how familiar you are with the massive amount of Christian music being written today.

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alex o. wrote: then thought

alex o. wrote:

then thought can be controlled by just the type of music? this is what you are saying.

folks who have studied persuasion would disagree with you. music is emotive probably to a degree but they don't cause certain thoughts. only you control and are responsible for your thoughts.


I think Scripture would trump the unnamed "folks who have studied persuasion" on this one. Passages like Eph. 5:18-19 and Col. 3:16 certainly teach both a proactive and reactive element towards the mind/spirit to specific music in all levels of the spiritual experience of the believer.

Lee

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Quote: I think Scripture

Quote:
I think Scripture would trump the unnamed "folks who have studied persuasion" on this one. Passages like Eph. 5:18-19 and Col. 3:16 certainly teach both a proactive and reactive element towards the mind/spirit to specific music in all levels of the spiritual experience of the believer.

Lee,

these passages teach us that we are to speak and teach one another through psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. I think we are assuming way too much of the text to say that this text teaches music style can primarily control our thoughts.....

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naming "names"

Lee wrote:
alex o. wrote:

then thought can be controlled by just the type of music? this is what you are saying.

folks who have studied persuasion would disagree with you. music is emotive probably to a degree but they don't cause certain thoughts. only you control and are responsible for your thoughts.


I think Scripture would trump the unnamed "folks who have studied persuasion" on this one. Passages like Eph. 5:18-19 and Col. 3:16 certainly teach both a proactive and reactive element towards the mind/spirit to specific music in all levels of the spiritual experience of the believer.

if you think about it, everyone studies persuasion. I was just thinking basic psychology where they deal with these simple issues. After all, all truth is God's truth.

A child will think of how to convince her mother to give her the cookie. A father will consider how he can influence his teenager to drive safely. A pastor how to urge his flock to read the Bible more. An advertiser to influence a purchase. A politician, a vote. If a style of music can merely be played to influence any if these decisions then we would see it. Those who study these things don't see it is what I am saying.

Also, I was responding to C.C. specific quote in case you were not following the discussion.

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criteria

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As for contemporary praise and worship choruses, there are many which are pure and reverent, just like there are many wonderful hymns that are pure and reverent as well.

How does one tell which ones are and which ones aren't?